Glutaraldehyde = Co2 For Your Reservoir?

[juniper]

Back when I was really into planted aquariums, I used a product called "Flourish Excel". Flourish Excel is a weak solution of glutaraldehyde. In the doses used, plants, fish, and delicate invertebrates were not noticeably affected, although it does have a mild inhibitory effect on algae, especially blue-green algae.

Glutaraldehyde is also used for sterilizing medical equipment, so I wouldn't imagine it has a place for anyone in organic soil or anyone not running a sterile reservoir, and again the inhibitory effect on single celled organisms.

In planted aquariums, the limiting factor is usually CO2. Water holds minimal amounts of CO2, and plants readily strip it. For larger setups, I used pressurized CO2, but smaller setups can easily get by with Flourish Excel. I used it with every water change in the non-CO2 injected tanks.

Supposedly, the plant can absorb the glutaraldehyde in solution, process it, and obtain CO2 to use for photosynthesis. It does work specifically for aquatic plants, which are essentially constantly in hydroponic conditions, but I wonder if it can be used for our type of hydroponics. CO2 for those not running pressurized CO2. I would imagine it also would help inhibit bacteria in the reservoir, acting similar to a mild bleach solution.

Does anyone out there have any experience with glutaraldehyde? Any chemists out there? @squiggly?
I tried searching for information but I can't find anything substantial related to this topic.

 

[jamjam]

Back when I was really into planted aquariums, I used a product called "Flourish Excel". Flourish Excel is a weak solution of glutaraldehyde. In the doses used, plants, fish, and delicate invertebrates were not noticeably affected, although it does have a mild inhibitory effect on algae, especially blue-green algae.

Glutaraldehyde is also used for sterilizing medical equipment, so I wouldn't imagine it has a place for anyone in organic soil or anyone not running a sterile reservoir, and again the inhibitory effect on single celled organisms.

In planted aquariums, the limiting factor is usually CO2. Water holds minimal amounts of CO2, and plants readily strip it. For larger setups, I used pressurized CO2, but smaller setups can easily get by with Flourish Excel. I used it with every water change in the non-CO2 injected tanks.

Supposedly, the plant can absorb the glutaraldehyde in solution, process it, and obtain CO2 to use for photosynthesis. It does work specifically for aquatic plants, which are essentially constantly in hydroponic conditions, but I wonder if it can be used for our type of hydroponics. CO2 for those not running pressurized CO2. I would imagine it also would help inhibit bacteria in the reservoir, acting similar to a mild bleach solution.

Does anyone out there have any experience with glutaraldehyde? Any chemists out there? @squiggly?
I tried searching for information but I can't find anything substantial related to this topic.

co2 will lower the pH. and also the plants won't be able to absorb the co2 from roots. at least via any mechanism I'm aware. underwater plants do this via their stomata in the leaves.

 

[Old Peanut]

really? co2 isn't acidic though. right? it like neutral

 

[juniper]

@Old Peanut CO2 does create carbonic acid in solution. The more CO2 is added, the lower the pH. High levels of CO2 are unstable in water, and will off-gas with light agitation. Dropped my pH from about 7.5 to about 6.5 @30ppm in hard water w/ high KH. Atmospheric CO2 is about 330 ppm, in water it's like 10. You can supplement to about 30ppm in water before the fish/inverts start gasping.

@jamjam This isn't free gaseous CO2. It's an aldehyde that the plants absorb. But maybe it is absorbed better by stoma, and would be best as a foliar.

 

[waayne]

@juniper Cannabis is typically considered a C3 plant.
They absorb C02 through the leaves stomata

The enzyme Rubisco is used to fix Co2,Rubisco is not produced in the root system of Cannabis.
You will get some absorption of Glutaraldhyde through the roots,but this would likely be quite inefficient and it's doubtful that it would be enough to see any visible difference.

I do hope you experiment with this and let us know how it goes.

 

[juniper]

@waayne By your estimation, would foliar application be more fruitful?

I know that CO2 is absorbed poorly by roots, but can glutaraldehyde? Could it be efficiently translocated to leaves from there to complete photosynthesis?

 

[waayne]

@juniper You're right on point sir,estimation is definitely the correct term here...lol.

Yes, I believe a foliar application would be a much better way to go.
I would try doing a foliar on a test plant (clone). That seems to be a more efficient process of application. Multiple test clones would probably be the best route to go so you can try different dilution rates as well....

This is quite intriguing as a foliar to me,but honestly we could really use a Chemist to help us out here.....

 

[juniper]

Thanks again for stopping by and your input. I tried summoning squiggly, but I haven't been around the Farm long enough to know who else around these parts possesses chemistry book-learnin'. Everything I know about chemistry I learned from horticulture and aquariums, so I'm lost. I took 3 cuts of purple elephant today for this purpose; once they're rooted and I have a little more space, I can go buy a 250ml bottle of Excel at the fish shop and see what's what.

 

[rubthe nub]

I use to use Excel in my small planted aquariums.
IMO, the absorption of the Excel or "Glutaraldehyde" is probably happening through the leaves in aquatic plants.
Have you ever seen "bubbling" or "pearling" on any of your aquatic plants @juniper ? When I ran co2 injection on my "high tech" tank I would get bubbling on leaves of several different plants. All the action is happening in the leaves.
Excel is suspended in the water column so it would seem the absorption is happening in the leaves.

Next question in my mind though, IF it does work as a spray is it "safe"?

 

[juniper]

I use to use Excel in my small planted aquariums.
IMO, the absorption of the Excel or "Glutaraldehyde" is probably happening through the leaves in aquatic plants.
Have you ever seen "bubbling" or "pearling" on any of your aquatic plants @juniper ? When I ran co2 injection on my "high tech" tank I would get bubbling on leaves of several different plants. All the action is happening in the leaves.
Excel is suspended in the water column so it would seem the absorption is happening in the leaves.

Next question in my mind though, IF it does work as a spray is it "safe"?

I rarely saw pearling, but only because I only had slower growing plants. I was so tired of my aquascapes with fast plants needing to be trimmed every 2 days. You probably know the struggle, hands all pruny from your arm being in the tank all day. For that reason, I mostly used ferns, mosses, crypts, Anubias. What species did you like using?

The leaves are producing oxygen. I don't think that necessarily means glutaraldehyde couldn't be absorbed by Cannabis roots and translocated to the leaves. I just wonder if it's efficient enough, or if foliar is my ticket. I'm certain the plant must use some sort of enzyme or biochemical process on the glutaraldehyde molecule to acquire that carbon, is it done in situ? Or moved around? I wish I would have majored in botany.

Safe? It's pretty diluted in the bottle, and at the directed mixing rates isn't harmful to plants, fish, or inverts. I had generations of fish, shrimp, and dwarf crayfish breed and live their entire lives in Excel treated water. So it can't be too harmful at the prescribed dosage. In addition, I am under the impression it is broken down fairly quickly, but someone correct this if it isn't the case. I redosed it with every water change and it never "built up".

 

[rubthe nub]

Safe? It's pretty diluted in the bottle, and at the directed mixing rates isn't harmful to plants, fish, or inverts. I had generations of fish, shrimp, and dwarf crayfish breed and live their entire lives in Excel treated water. So it can't be too harmful at the prescribed dosage. In addition, I am under the impression it is broken down fairly quickly, but someone correct this if it isn't the case. I redosed it with every water change and it never "built up".

Valid points. I kept inverts as well CRS, Bumblebees, Amanos. Now that I think about it, my cat use to drink out of the tanks occasionally and I never noticed any ill effects.

Rotala, Ludwiga and Hygrophila all pearled like crazy. You're right about the work load :eek:
It was pretty amazing growth rate on some of those plants. I could completely level any of those listed above and within days they were at water surface ( 18"). I also went back to low light slow growing plants eventually, Anubias, Java ferns, Crypts etc....