Gorilla Glue #4 S1 From The Hammer

[covertchem]

Or make...

 

[mojavegreen]

@Bulldog11, define "good genetics" please.

 

[covertchem]

Good ..strong .. stable.. something g that stands up to today's Finest ... wookie cookies

 

[Quagmire]

I am working with Auto Flowering right now.. I know I know, people don't like them.. however, I think/hope I've found something great. AK47 x Sour60 by BOG.. I have pollinated using a male from same batch of beans.. planted 5, one just gave up..freaking quitter.. lol. 3 ladies 1 male and open pollinated.. does this make an F1..?
I'd would love to look at some Hammerhead Seeds.. what's the list look like?
Mine are at day #35, hoping they start to chunk up more but so far at about 3ft high they are looking pretty nice. Thanks for your guidance.

 

[Quagmire]

Duh uh... found Hammerhead Seeds.. lol

 

[covertchem]

Breedin with autos ruins genetics sorry

 

[zeke]

@tipz : I would totally use the GG 4 as a parental despite its intersexed ancestry purely due to the fact that it's really good and there aren't any other options if I choose to work with it. I would not use the S1s because I can just use the original. If I couldn't, I'd use the S1s if I really wanted to work with it. Not my preferred method. Ideally I'd have male and female seed as a start. Ideally. Not an option here.

@WalterWhiteFire.. Ha you fucking prick!... Ha ha.
Brother, crow is a very lean meat. Very good for the heart....I fucking love that White Romulan. After curing it is straight up licorice or anise or fennel. I held preconceived negative beliefs about fems and anything other than plain old male and female breeding. You and that plant helped me get over myself and a rigid idealistic mindset. Rigid idealistic belief systems have zero place in any type of research setting.

 

[covertchem]

Coverts new gear

 

[smoothbud]

S1's have a bad rap for a few reasons. One reason is that some people make S1's from a hermi pollen sac. Years ago this was preached as the method to make fem seeds. The best methods are done after isolating a female that does not hermi late in flower or when stressed. If you can not force it to hermi it will not produce hermi prone females when restricted from flowering female flowers with colloidal silver or silver thiosulfate. That being said....many of the clone only strains that people want seeds from are hermi prone. Chemdog D for example. By breeding a hermi prone line to a stable male (a good stable Landrace male is often used , such as Afgan) it is sometimes possible to find a pheno which exibits most or many of the traits that you desire from the hermi prone clone only, but does not have the intersex traits. This can take popping alot of seeds to find the desired offspring. Once found, this pheno could be reversed to make S1's that are stable. Or it can be used in a cross that will give regular seeds and have some of the traits desired in some of the phenos.

 

[rubthe nub]

there are other ways to work s1's
just nobody takes the time to do so correctly

 

[zeke]

Care to elaborate ? I'm interested in any knowledge you may care to share. I'm thinking of reversing my GG#4 S1 and hitting the original GG#4. I'm curious and think some useful information might be gained. I'll make sure not to release any seed,cuts or pollen out of my evil lair/laboratory. Wouldn't want to contaminate the genepool and cause a Dankopolypse or bring about the Antichronic or some sort of Cannaclysm that Nugstrodamus spoke of....

 

[roach]

if GG#4 passes on the intersex trait to some of its progeny, wouldnt it then be a good idea to make s1´s with it, grow out a lot of them, select a plant that resembles the GG#4 that dont have the intersex trait and then use that s1 to breed with?

I never understood the problem people have with s1´s and femmed seeds, its all a matter of selection, start with good parents and you get good seeds no matter what method you use to make them.
s1 is a very good way to test a mother you want to make seeds with, grow out s1´s of it before using it in a cross and you will see all it might possibly pass on to its progeny, if you find maleflowers in your s1 that mother will also bring it over in a F1 cross, femmed or not (although it could be recessive and therefor not show up untill the F2 generation)

 

[zeke]

Ah, S1 seed floats and burns so I have deduced that they are made of wood. Naturally that leads me to believe that they are witches.... Eh, maybe not? I'm thinking simultaneously grow out S1 bx1 and S2 and compare. Of course I'd use the same S1 to make the S1 bx1 and the S2.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

Certainly there would be no gorilla glue, and it seems to me there'd be no OG Kush without feminizing processes, what ever that argument is worth... There is something to be said of preserving a chemotype through self pollination, but to base an entire seedbank of offerings on this is due to 1 or a combination of a few things:
1: hoping to protect proprietary genes by only offering feminized versions. But mostly;
2: laziness and greed, and/or;
3: lack of talent in terms of breeding and selecting.

The fact of the matter is that it is so much easier and consumes much less time to feminize rather than test a male over several crosses and generations. The nature of the seed distribution game has sped up so fast it seems like you have to offer 36 elite based feminized lines while you refine and make progress on two or three special projects, or you will be old news by the time your gem is polished and ready for market.

There are no rules on proprietary or trademark genetics- so it's a melee now with everyone of offering their questionably produced crosses. Many will buy Greenpoint chem crosses, for example, whereas plenty will wait for JJ and the quality he is known for. Used to be quality genetics were paramount to a growers concerns, now if it says fruity pebbles or stardawg on it most folks don't care from where it came or how it was produced. It's the nature of our culture... To the majority of consumers out there, "now" is more valuable than "quality" these days.

Also seems to me the selling point of fems is not as accurate as once thought. Growers want to not grow male plants so much they want them out of the equation altogether. So a grower buys fem seeds because he wants all females but still has to cull half the pack because intersex issues, he just wasted the extra money. Intersex plants are worse than males IMO, and if you guaranteed to get some seems like you know you're buying trash.

But you can't deny that feminization has its place in the game, not in my garden, but plenty of others.

 

[roach]

it would be very interresting if your GG#4 S1 didnt show any intersex traits, to see what the S2´s are like, if there is no intersex in the S2 it must mean your S1 mother is intersex free.

im sure its gonna be hard work growing out all those seeds, and even harder work to test the finished product to check the potency :p

 

[roach]

@NaturalTherapy I have grown lots of femminized seeds that didnt show any kind of intersex, but also some that did, the same can be said about regular seeds, again its down to selection of parents.

I think we also need to distinguise between the different kinds of "female" seeds, you have your S1, in the perfect world someone would grow out a million well bred seeds and select the best plants, make S1 with them, test them and only sell the ones with no intersex traits, but as the market is today that is not possible, what we have is millions if different seeds obtained from all kinds of sources are sown and the best of these are saved as clones, then we have all the poor souls like me that dont have access to these wonderfull clones, our option is the S1´s, it might not be the best option, but I have rarely grown a pack of S1´s where I didnt fint atleast one plant worth keeping as a mother, and that is the only reason I grow them, to find that plant to clone.

Then there is you elite clone x elite clone, like ImSoGangstaKush x Very sour DieselDawg, again in the perfect world you would have millions of ImSoGangstaKush and DieselDawgs to select your parents from, but as it is now, if you think the combination of those 2 parents sounds great, your might run the risk of having some plants intersex, but again you select a clone that dont intersex and keep that.

And finaly you have what a few breeders have worked on, properly bred and tested female seeds, not just some dispensary bought clone sprayed with STS and crossed to another dispensary bought clone, but these are just as hard to make as regular bred good quality seeds, so not that many of them yet.

There is also a big difference between a few nanners later in flower and a full blown hermafrodite, the first is not uncommon to find in most strains (some never develop enough to open) and full blown hermafrodites are very rare even in feminized seeds, S1´s too, unless they are very poorly bred

 

[zeke]

Do you have first hand experience that proves that chemical reversals repeated or otherwise cause an increased frequency of intersexed individuals ? I don't . I ran two S1 packs in my life. Both packs from non related breeders and non related strains. Both were a majority of herms. The plants I'm left with are nice. I'm not ready to say that all S1s are like this. Could be only S1s of intersexed parentals or parentals with intersexed ancestry are like this.

 

[zeke]

I better just perform the experiment and observe the results and record the data. Then I'll go online and when people ask I'll act all cryptically and tell them to do the research... No that would be douchie. I'll just be honest and share my data for free. Help further the knowledge base of the regular community. Actual experiments are way more useful than assumptions or vague generalizations regarding the sexual behavior of a completely different Genus.

 

[rubthe nub]

@zeke shoot me a pm
i've worked s1's for a long time

 

[smoothbud]

I respectfully suggest, that you do your own research work instead of asking someone else to do it for you.
understand that cannabis is a dioecious plant and as such falls within the parameters for the group. It is well documented that external chemical manipulation
of phenolic chemistry increases the propensity of sexual ambiguity in dioecious plants.
Any university library will have an abundance of research on the topic, if its not to much work.

It is NOT well documented. In fact the opposite has been documented.You mistake what is said and repeated by many well meaning people, some of whom are accepted as authorities on the subject and have successful seed companies.