Grow #3: Organic Mix

[Crysmatic]

So here's a go at "organic". I was hoping it'd be easier than hydro. This is my take on sub's super soil.

4 parts canna coco
2 parts perlite
1 part earthworm castings
2 Tbsp Flower power per gallon

Flower power in soil did well for me outdoors this year. Just water. Great smell, good trichome, not too leafy. I can tell the coco needs more calcium. I'll hit them with a little calnit soon.

I started:

10 TGA Vortex
5 TGA Plushberry
5 Breeder's Choice Chocolate Rain
3 DNA Holy Grail - feminized
1 G13 LabsRaw Diesel
1 THSeeds Underdog OG
1 THSeeds Snowdog aka Acorn

The singles were freebies. Plushberry is super vigorous. A couple of Vortex smell interesting already. Choc Rain has a dark smell...as advertised.

I just took cuts of every seedling, and will put into 12/12 to sex them. I hope to cull some males next week.

 

[clockworx]

Nice, you should precharge the coco...

 

[Crysmatic]

I see that now. They looked ok until a few days ago.

Botanicare CalMag says 5 ml/4L. Density is 1.054 g/ml. 32 ppm Ca (+/- 25%) assuming greenhouse grade calcium nitrate. Magnesium works against Calcium...so l'm simply adding 0.17 g/L calnit to their watering.

I left for 3 days, and they went from nearly bare branches, to almost wall to wall green :) The cuttings haven't shown yet, but they've stretched quite a bit. It's quite exhausting to pheno hunt 25 seeds and 7 varieties :/

 

[clockworx]

Yea, learned that lesson. I use dol lime.....even when cutting soil with coco you need to because the coco will just suck everything in the mix up like a sponge.....

 

[clockworx]

Once you hit the coco to the saturation point your good, then just keep hitting it every now and again to keep the exchange rate balanced.. dolamite lime works best because its slowly released through out the the grow keeping the coco full.....

 

[Crysmatic]

Everything is in flower now. I pruned the other day.

I thought the gnats were bad in rockwool...it's got nothing on coco :O After a couple of days, l can touch the sticky strips without sticking. I wonder if fungus gnat farming has a market? l'm going to pick up some SNS 203, as recommended by pussOGBrah.

PM is still around...some plants are obviously more succeptible than others. Greenhouse farmers use Nova on continuously fruiting crops, so l'm not sure why we can't use it a couple of times, even in flower. I just need to get my hands on some...

Holy grail is a pain to clone - few side branches. Raw diesel and Underdawg are the stickiest and smelliest in this run...high hopes :)

Jilly bean smells nice, but only one genotype had any punch. they are very prone to PM, and l'm having some weird necrosis, where FOK grew amazing with my nutes, same EC, same pH, in the same medium. They're getting the chop.

Licences expire March 31, 2014, and l'm preparing for my final run:
Swazi x Lambsbreath -
Hawaiian x Sweet Tooth 3 - beanho
Apple Pie F2 - originally Reeferman
double Koosh - mota rebel
Qush - TGA
Jack Skellington - TGA

double koosh only had a 60% germ rate. TGA all popped within a few days. Even my five year old Apple pie F2 seeds had a 90% germ rate. Double koosh is also a low yielder, and slow grower. l just wanted another bubba cross...

 

[Crysmatic]

Gotta remember to use dolomite lime. I figure a tbsp of blood meal should delay the fade to just before harvest.

First is a pic of plushberry 4. Very fat and frosty. Looks to finish in 8 weeks or less.

Group shot of raw diesel in front. Chocolate rain, underdog OG, and Vortex in the back row. Left to right.

Close up of Vortex.

Everything is very frosty and smells nice. Apart from hand watering, it has been an easy run.

The sativa seedlings are just showing sex now. 9 males so far. I also just started flowering a qush and jack skellington.

 

[Seamaiden]

I missed this thread, tagging along to see where you go with this.

I like to use quite a bit of Ca for precharging coir. For example, the rate you gave above of 5mls/gal, I would use 20mls/gal for precharging. Calcium is really the problem here, so I wouldn't be surprised if you just precharged with CaNO3 it'd work fine.

 

[iCultivate]

I've not grown in coco before. Can someone explain what you mean by precharge and what the dolomite lime is used for?

-- iCultivate --

 

[true grit]

Actually on another forum we were discussing how dolomite lime just isnt a good choice for super soil mixes or as a buffer. I dropped it a few mixes ago and havent looked back. Folks have found it particularly an issue in coco mixes screwing things.

I have never ever pre charged, and never had an issue. Not sure why its such a big issue for some...curious if it has to do with people relying on "calmag" instead of calcium only sources.

 

[Seamaiden]

I've not grown in coco before. Can someone explain what you mean by precharge and what the dolomite lime is used for?

-- iCultivate --

Precharging coir is important because it locks onto calcium and magnesium on a molecular level (depending on the brand you use, some come precharged as I understand it). Magnesium, being mobile within the plant, is very easy to correct if a deficiency occurs. Calcium, on the other hand, is immobile and I've spent some time with my first couple of grows chasing calcium deficiencies. If you get a coir that's not precharged with calcium at least, then you can expect problems UNLESS you make up for it in the feeds, which I've found can be touchy unless you're really good with math and chemistry.

I personally don't think DL is the best thing to use because it's chock full of carbonates (any time you see the CO3 molecule, you know it's a carbonate and chances are it's got whatever other molecule attached to it basically on lockdown, difficult to break apart without using strong acids). DL is CaMgCO3, that is calcium magnesium carbonate, so it's nothing but carbonate. What's the problem with carbonates? What they do to the water and eventually soil columns--buffer pH and tend to buffer upward into the 8 range IME in aquatics. In fact, we use dolomite, aragonite and crushed coral in the tanks of fishes that like high pH water in order to keep it buffered high.

I personally prefer to use Ca separately from Mg in coir cultivation for a few reasons, and I think other forms of calcium that aren't attached to a carbonate molecule are a better choice. Yes, even CaNO3.

 

[Smoking Gun]

Actually on another forum we were discussing how dolomite lime just isnt a good choice for super soil mixes or as a buffer. I dropped it a few mixes ago and havent looked back. Folks have found it particularly an issue in coco mixes screwing things.

I have never ever pre charged, and never had an issue. Not sure why its such a big issue for some...curious if it has to do with people relying on "calmag" instead of calcium only sources.

Precharging coir is important because it locks onto calcium and magnesium on a molecular level (depending on the brand you use, some come precharged as I understand it). Magnesium, being mobile within the plant, is very easy to correct if a deficiency occurs. Calcium, on the other hand, is immobile and I've spent some time with my first couple of grows chasing calcium deficiencies. If you get a coir that's not precharged with calcium at least, then you can expect problems UNLESS you make up for it in the feeds, which I've found can be touchy unless you're really good with math and chemistry.

I personally don't think DL is the best thing to use because it's chock full of carbonates (any time you see the CO3 molecule, you know it's a carbonate and chances are it's got whatever other molecule attached to it basically on lockdown, difficult to break apart without using strong acids). DL is CaMgCO3, that is calcium magnesium carbonate, so it's nothing but carbonate. What's the problem with carbonates? What they do to the water and eventually soil columns--buffer pH and tend to buffer upward into the 8 range IME in aquatics. In fact, we use dolomite, aragonite and crushed coral in the tanks of fishes that like high pH water in order to keep it buffered high.

I personally prefer to use Ca separately from Mg in coir cultivation for a few reasons, and I think other forms of calcium that aren't attached to a carbonate molecule are a better choice. Yes, even CaNO3.

What sources of calcium do you guys use?

 

[Seamaiden]

I have to find another one, but previously I was using BioLink 6% Ca. Was able to use it as a root drench *or* foliar. My usual supplier stopped carrying it and I didn't want to pay the freight from AZ, so I tried Calcium-25, but it's for foliar applications only.

For Mg I use MgSO4.

 

[true grit]

Last time I used a bottled calcium source I was using Calplex from botanicare, but it has since been discontinued. I just heard that early and bought a 5g ;) And at 5ml/g...that goes a good distance. lol.

I have never precharged coco outta the bag and always used canna coco or bio bizz coco, like I said i think its based on using seperate calcium source for feed than calmag and I was lucky enough to be explained that while I was still in soil (thanks Growmaster!). I also never used calcium over 5ml/g either in coco or soil. There is plenty of Mag in base nutrients if you are using bottled nutes. Too much mag causes issues/lockouts that most think are too little calcium...and how do they correct it? By adding more calmag. Once I eliminated calmag and used calcium only sources- all cal/mag issues disappeared forever. And I definitely was not doing anything special, I developed a coco regimen that every homie I gave it to produced outstanding product and generally used less nutrients than other coco growers.

 

[Smoking Gun]

Thanks guys. CES separated their calcium and magnesium, and I always thought that was a good idea. The new Botanicare Kind line also separated the calcium and magnesium. They put the calcium in their Base product and the magnesium with their grow or bloom formula.

 

[Crysmatic]

Thanks for keeping the convo going. l added 1 tbsp/gal of dolomite lime, and about 1 tsp/gal of blood meal (12-0-0). l'm waiting to see whether it helps, or doesn't flush in time. l have no problems giving them plain water...no pHing, no mixing, no clogged drippers. And the flowers come out beautiful, trichy, and few sugar leaves. l've given the soil to a buddy, who previously bought my nutes, and he loves it too...very hard to screw up.

my previous run is almost done. much lower yield than l'm used to. damned multi strain seed grows :( the good part is the special plants we are finding.

Vortex
l found a vortex genotype that l really like - almost hallucinatory. very creative, clear high. l smell carrots, everyone else smells rotten fruit and baby poo...and apparently that's a good thing :) they all smell the same to me. One was a runt, and had a xmas tree shape...the bottom 2/3 of each branch is larf :/ Another was same, but bigger and denser, and trichier. It looks excellent for sog! The other two vortices were tall, lanky, huge but airy buds. got me good on about half a bowl.

Plushberry was very well behaved, fat, dense colas, trichy and sticky. harvested day 56. we got a black cherry smelling plant. both plants yielded about the same - maybe an oz or so. beautiful taste, very smooth, nice effect. needed a whole bowl to feel good. not the strongest.

Chocolate Rain
two genotypes...one short and 60 day. frosty, but not very potent. the other is tall, FAT, frosty, dense colas. 70 day. l dream about running sog with this one. can't wait to sample a dried nug. also not very susceptible to pm.

mean martian green
actually turned out pretty potent. half a bowl, nice stone. early reports were neutral to weak...so l killed it. it wouldn't have been a bad plant to keep around...oops.

Raw Diesel
reeks of tangerine peels. l've read reports that it takes forever and has no kick. a day 60 sample took a whole bowl, but very nice effect, tasty and smooth. huge colas. still going at day 74. getting frostier in the last few days. l feel positive on this one...it was the stickiest/stinkiest plant in veg.

underdog og.
Still flowering. second stickiest/stinkiest plant in veg. very well structured. four branches, almost all bud. smells nice, a little rough to smoke. maybe half a bowl to get me high...again, a day 60 sample.

Holy Grail Kush
Still flowering. one threw out two male flowers :/ l ate them before they opened. fat, long colas. tiny calyxes, with green pistils. it had better deliver on the hype.

Silver Kush
my grower friend raves about it. he ranks it just below the vortex. this is fully seeded bud, harvested at least a week early. heavy yielder. l just put a plant in flower, with my soil mix. we'll see how the sensemilla turns out in my room.

Double Koosh
all the seeds died at birth. some worms were eating them. same soil and conditions as every other seed l've sprouted the last six months. l don't know what happened there.

l currently have hawaiian x sweet tooth 3, swazi x lambs breath, and my apple pie f2. also, jack skellington and qush. l had multiple females of each, but due to an oversight, l only have one of each in flower. early observations: jamaican is really short and stout...flowering heavily. hawaiian is tall and looking heavy...the beanho description warns that these are BIG plants. Apple pie F2, of course, is as random as can be. they're growing into tall, short branching, colas, if that makes sense. l've never seen a plant like it...not even the f1s. l hope l get the heart pounding, super clear, alert, paranoia, great for music, hallucination, muchie, high. the strongest l've had to date. three tokes on a joint had me thinking of driving to emergency.

 

[Seamaiden]

Crysm, I personally don't think you need to be concerned about flushing DL or blood meal. IF they're not used up by the end of the run, they're still good organic amendments that aren't force-feeding the plant to the point where it needs flushing. That's just my opinion, of course.

Awaiting pix!

 

[Crysmatic]

l should clarify that l don't flush. l water just to the point of saturation - l aim for zero run off. l want to dose my soil so that l don't have to add anything during flower, and still get some yellowing right before harvest. Good to know l don't need to worry about excess blood meal. However, the sun leaves are still yellowing and dying...even with the blood meal. What could it be??

when l was monocropping in hydro, everything was perfect..until some drippers clogged...then l was pulling my hair :/ l've lost control, and my yield has gone to pot, but it's quite relaxing in my room now. My buddy LOVES how simple it is. He says his plants have never been healthier - they look fake. l already know how his plants will turn out...he'll be blown away.

Holy Grail
l took down the holy grail at day 75. l'm getting hair salon smells...hair dye or ammonia? lt's turning into the burning hair smell like the face off. One plant has some fruit in there too...more complex. ugly bud though...tiny calyxes, all green, not much crystal

Underdog OG and Raw Diesel
l will take them down day 77.

 

[green bastard]

should be an interesting grow im subbed for the show

 

[Crysmatic]

Thanks for following!

Diesel actually came down at day 79. Huge colas. Almost no trimming. Smells strong.

I'm fighting gnats again. More sticky strips and vectobac - a BT product. It worked very well for me last run, and fairly economical. The only thing is it smells like mushrooms and dirty underwear.

Qush has trichome encrusted golf ball buds. I have one more pheno - l hope to get the poodle colas. Potent skittles is good too.

I have high hopes for jack skellington. I bought the seeds because l wanted a hash plant. I got 3/5 females, and a second girl is going in soon.

A buddy gave me his "jack herer" cross from original sensi seeds NL5 x haze and skunk from the '80s. He calls it Damian, so l labeled it "666" ;)

The apple pie F2 looks and smell good. Hawaiians are big and fruity. jamaicans are more compact and stinky - early on they smelled like chinese food.