Grow Room Electrical

Natural · Mar 10, 2013

caveman4.20 said:
is it more electricity to start up a 1000 watt ballast then to keep it running i plan on turning off and on 1000 watt lights for SLT scattered lighting techinique....

hey Cave..
Magnetics are going to have a higher root mean square (RMS) i.e. the average measure of juice to start-up @ somewhere close to 225%. Some digi's are soft start and claim to only use 50% and slowly ramp up. Some digi's are soft start and some are fast start and each one has diff specs..best to call the manufacturer if ya can not find the specs. Keep in mind that specs are written in perfect lab conditions..your rh and temp may affect that.
peace

Natural · Mar 10, 2013

Natural said:
Most ballasts run reasonably under 5 amps @ 220v and under 10 amps @ 120v. The correct answer is 8 1K's per 50 amp circuit....6 1K's per 40 amp...4 1K's per 30 amp; all of these higher amp circuits run on 2 legs of 120v i.e. 240 volts. The correct number for any 120v circuit, which only runs one hot leg of 120 volts is always 1K, whether it is a 20 amp or 15 amp there is only room for one 1k light.

It should be noted that Magnetic Ballasts need their own power source and could possibly be running a bulb hotter than the bulb is rated. Also, there is fluctuation from brand to brand. Electronic Ballasts tend to burn bulbs at their correct wattage. Therefore, it would be wise to test your total amps before completely relying on the 80% rule of thumb.

caveman4.20 · Mar 10, 2013

Natural said:
hey Cave..
Magnetics are going to have a higher root mean square (RMS) i.e. the average measure of juice to start-up @ somewhere close to 225%. Some digi's are soft start and claim to only use 50% and slowly ramp up. Some digi's are soft start and some are fast start and each one has diff specs..best to call the manufacturer if ya can not find the specs. Keep in mind that specs are written in perfect lab conditions..your rh and temp may affect that.
peace

So basically your answer is yes ballast take more energy to get started then to keep running

Natural · Mar 11, 2013

caveman4.20 said:
So basically your answer is yes ballast take more energy to get started then to keep running

^^^sorry just covering my ass in respect of the OP.
Magnetic Ballasts use a ton of power for start ups..you'll soon know it if you're at full capacity for the circuit and your breaker flips @ start up. Digital Ballasts are programmed to "soft start" at 50% capacity and slowly warm up to full e.g. your 1000 watt digi will fire up using 500 watts.
Not to say that all digi's are the same..hell there might be a chinese ballast out there that is programmed to fire hotter. That is why I suggest asking the maker...or if you know how to use a voltage tester..get testing. Just to make sure, but most digi's you will find "soft start".

fishwhistle · Mar 11, 2013

Even ballasts with soft start are still gonna spike a little at startup,same for an a/c or most electrical devices,Solis tek has some tech that staggers the startup of multiple ballsts so it doesnt all hit at once,it just takes a little more to get things started and warmed up.I have put a meter on ballasts on a flip that are already warmed up and they still spike a bit while the bulb gets going.Its kinda like your car,it takes alot more energy to go from a complete stop than it does once you get rolling.

caveman4.20 · Mar 11, 2013

Thanks fish and thanks natural I'm working on sething I've never read about or seen or heard and its based off this powering up and saving electricity if the Pars research I've done is accurate I'm going to use flo's for interrupting dark cycle in veg (13hr veg) and also use flo's to wake up and put to sleep plants like morning and evening sun and that's seven hours of hid and rest flo's....thanks for the help

deniro · Mar 12, 2013

fishwhistle said:
Well said stickerdick,our resident sparky hiboy has been MIA for a minute and its kinda run amok in here.
Deniro,keep in mind that 240v can also be 3 wires hot/hot/grnd,dryer plugs and straight 240 is often run this way,i beleive the extra wire(neutral)comes into play when you have an appliance that uses both 120 and 240 like an electric oven or a lighting controller with both 120 and 240 plugs and like JK said remember the 80% rule!

Thanks fishwhistle!

MidniteGardener · Mar 17, 2013

I'm looking to expand my room and I need some suggestions. Right now I have a 120v 15amp that I only run my window a/c and fans on. Then I have a 120v 20amp dedicated line that I ran myself under the guidance of an electrician who is a friend of a friend. He can't help me now because he lives up north. Anyway I'm looking to run 2x 1000w in there, and from what I've read here I don't think it would be safe on a single 20amp circuit. Believe it or not my main service is full, but I did find a 240v breaker that my outdoor sprinkler pump runs on. I've never used it since I moved in and don't plan to, so I could use that if I had to run another line. What would I need to do the job, and do I need to wire it to a receptacle or directly to a light controller? If you have any other tips or suggestions it would be much appreciated.

MG

WestCoaster · Mar 18, 2013

Hiboy,

I have some questions about the different types of ballasts that are on the market now a days.

Old school magnetic, always worked OK for me but is this still the go to ballast for ease of use and lack of problems?

Digital ballasts, never used them, what are the positives and negatives to these kinds of ballasts?

Switchable ballasts, whether they switch for MH to HPS or have the ability to change the wattage are these things worth a dam or is this just marketing to get more sales regardless of real world performance?

Anything else we should know about modern ballasts that you think would be helpful?

Lastly, what can you tell us about the new Inversion lights and ballasts that we are starting to see in the growers world?

They are big bucks up front, but they appear to be a big change assuming what they say about them proves to be true.

Thanks in advance for your response.

WC

samino · Mar 18, 2013

Hello fellas! I have a project i am getting ready to start and need some advice. First I plan on running the grow room of a sub panel. I plan to start off with 3 Gavita pro 600w ballasts @ 240v. For the 120v circuits I plan to run 2 oscillating fans, 1 intake blower. I eventually want to add 2 more Gavita 600w lights and switch over to hydro in this room.
Can you recommend how I should go about this? Parts ect!

washburn4life · Mar 20, 2013

MidniteGardener said:
I'm looking to expand my room and I need some suggestions. Right now I have a 120v 15amp that I only run my window a/c and fans on. Then I have a 120v 20amp dedicated line that I ran myself under the guidance of an electrician who is a friend of a friend. He can't help me now because he lives up north. Anyway I'm looking to run 2x 1000w in there, and from what I've read here I don't think it would be safe on a single 20amp circuit. Believe it or not my main service is full, but I did find a 240v breaker that my outdoor sprinkler pump runs on. I've never used it since I moved in and don't plan to, so I could use that if I had to run another line. What would I need to do the job, and do I need to wire it to a receptacle or directly to a light controller? If you have any other tips or suggestions it would be much appreciated.

MG

first off you can get split breakers also called tangent and penut breakers, to fix the lack of room in your breaker box they have two circut slots on a normal sized breaker work great, dont use for 240v

if your running 2 lights a dedicated 240V 20A cuirct is fine. It could probably handle 3 lights but I would put 25A breaker or it might be prone to trip. Be safe Make sure you use #12 gauge wire

washburn4life · Mar 20, 2013

samino said:
Hello fellas! I have a project i am getting ready to start and need some advice. First I plan on running the grow room of a sub panel. I plan to start off with 3 Gavita pro 600w ballasts @ 240v. For the 120v circuits I plan to run 2 oscillating fans, 1 intake blower. I eventually want to add 2 more Gavita 600w lights and switch over to hydro in this room.
Can you recommend how I should go about this? Parts ect!

Get a 240V 40A curcit (#8 AWG) connect to a 240v 40A 6 light relay. w/ a trigger cord or a built in timer. throw an extra 120V 20A circuit for hydro. If your blower intake is < 12" you could install a 15A 120V circuit t but I would just do a 20A

hope that helps

MidniteGardener · Mar 21, 2013

washburn4life said:
first off you can get split breakers also called tangent and penut breakers, to fix the lack of room in your breaker box they have two circut slots on a normal sized breaker work great, dont use for 240v

if your running 2 lights a dedicated 240V 20A cuirct is fine. It could probably handle 3 lights but I would put 25A breaker or it might be prone to trip. Be safe Make sure you use #12 gauge wire

I already put in a tandem 20 amp 120v in a slot that originally just ran to a bathroom GFI. So I put a tandem 20amp breaker on it and ran 12/2 romex and put in a receptacle that I currently use to run only my lights, a 1000 and a 400. Easy peasy.

The only slot I think I have left is the one my sprinkler pump is on. I could just run my circuit and swap the wires out. I would just leave the wires to my sprinkler system disconnected and reconnect them if I ever leave or change my mind. so #12 gauge is OK to run 240v? I thought it had to be thicker for 240v.

washburn4life · Mar 22, 2013

MidniteGardener said:
I already put in a tandem 20 amp 120v in a slot that originally just ran to a bathroom GFI. So I put a tandem 20amp breaker on it and ran 12/2 romex and put in a receptacle that I currently use to run only my lights, a 1000 and a 400. Easy peasy.

The only slot I think I have left is the one my sprinkler pump is on. I could just run my circuit and swap the wires out. I would just leave the wires to my sprinkler system disconnected and reconnect them if I ever leave or change my mind. so #12 gauge is OK to run 240v? I thought it had to be thicker for 240v.

12 gauge is rated for 20 Amps it can be run at any voltage but can no surpass 20A

Natural · Mar 22, 2013

MidniteGardener said:
I'm looking to expand my room and I need some suggestions. Right now I have a 120v 15amp that I only run my window a/c and fans on. Then I have a 120v 20amp dedicated line that I ran myself under the guidance of an electrician who is a friend of a friend. He can't help me now because he lives up north. Anyway I'm looking to run 2x 1000w in there, and from what I've read here I don't think it would be safe on a single 20amp circuit. Believe it or not my main service is full, but I did find a 240v breaker that my outdoor sprinkler pump runs on. I've never used it since I moved in and don't plan to, so I could use that if I had to run another line. What would I need to do the job, and do I need to wire it to a receptacle or directly to a light controller? If you have any other tips or suggestions it would be much appreciated.

MG

I would recommend finding a new electrician if ya wanna install the 220v line.
He will need to disconnect the sprinkler system circuit and if you wanted it to remain..leave the wire and label it. Run new 220v circuit using #10 AWG-CU from the existing 20 amp 220v breaker to your grow location. All new work will require 10-4 romex. It would be wise to have the run end @ a subpanel, but you can hard-wire a light controller. You will need a light controller that utilizes relays to time multiple lights.

MidniteGardener · Mar 23, 2013

Natural said:
I would recommend finding a new electrician if ya wanna install the 220v line.
He will need to disconnect the sprinkler system circuit and if you wanted it to remain..leave the wire and label it. Run new 220v circuit using #10 AWG-CU from the existing 20 amp 220v breaker to your grow location. All new work will require 10-4 romex. It would be wise to have the run end @ a subpanel, but you can hard-wire a light controller. You will need a light controller that utilizes relays to time multiple lights.

I've read some talk about creating a subpanel earlier in this thread. I like that idea, but is there enough with 20 amps to need a subpanel? I haven't seen any light controllers that are less than 30 amps either. At the very least I would like to have a hard wired light controller.

Natural · Mar 24, 2013

MidniteGardener said:
I've read some talk about creating a subpanel earlier in this thread. I like that idea, but is there enough with 20 amps to need a subpanel? I haven't seen any light controllers that are less than 30 amps either. At the very least I would like to have a hard wired light controller.

The sub-panel would be a safety fixture in this scenario e.g. quick shut-offs, overload near water, etc; not a necessity. Have your electrician calculate your panel load..more than likely you will be able to install a double-pole 30 amp breaker in place of the 20 amp one...giving you more options. You could have a "dryer" plug receptacle installed at the end of this run, which some good light controllers use or for "a reason" for the work. You will be using 10-4 romex with the 30 amp as well, which by all accounts you could hard wire this to a controller. Wire size is determined by load, but the distance of the run is also a consideration; which will have to be determined by your guy.
As for controllers...Hiboy (thread OP) and "nowirenuts.com" are both great sources for custom controllers.

MidniteGardener · Mar 24, 2013

Natural said:
The sub-panel would be a safety fixture in this scenario e.g. quick shut-offs, overload near water, etc; not a necessity. Have your electrician calculate your panel load..more than likely you will be able to install a double-pole 30 amp breaker in place of the 20 amp one...giving you more options. You could have a "dryer" plug receptacle installed at the end of this run, which some good light controllers use or for "a reason" for the work. You will be using 10-4 romex with the 30 amp as well, which by all accounts you could hard wire this to a controller. Wire size is determined by load, but the distance of the run is also a consideration; which will have to be determined by your guy.
As for controllers...Hiboy (thread OP) and "nowirenuts.com" are both great sources for custom controllers.

This is exactly what I needed to know right here. Thanks for clearing all my questions.

Natural · Mar 24, 2013

...and by 10-4..I do mean 2 black(1 could be red or have a red stripe), 1 white, and a bare/green ground wire. The nomenclature is actually 10-3 with a ground..the ground is bare for interior wiring and the ground is sheathed in green insulation for exterior or below slab installs. I would invest in the controller first..the custom ones being made are code compliant with US 220v..meaning they utilize the neutral for 110v uses e.g. oven lights, led read out for dryer etc. Since 10-3 ground is required for all new installs. This is why most custom controllers are designed with 10-3 grounded in mind and usually have a 110v receptacle "always on" for something other than your lights like a fan.
Also, if you do end up installing a sub-panel..make absolutely sure your guy does not bond the white neutral and the ground wire together in the sub-panel..they must have separate lugs and not be connected..sometimes there is a tab that can be removed in between the neutral buss and the ground buss..the ground and neutral can only be bonded together @ your main service panel.

check this clip and paste for a good explanation of 3wire and 4wire 220v:

3-Wire 220 Volt Wiring

Most of today’s common appliances and fixtures operate off 110 volt wiring and circuits. In these cases connections to this equipment is done through three wires. The black wire, or “hot” wire, carries the electrical current to the device, the green wire, or bare copper wire, acts as the ground and the white wire is neutral, which completes the circuit. In turn, this wire can be traced back to the electrical panel where is connected to a single pole breaker to complete the circuit. Residential homes use alternating current (AC) which means the polarity of the lone “hot” wire reverses several times a second.

220 volt wiring, on the other hand, contains no neutral white wire. Instead, the black wire still carries a current but there is an additional “hot” wire which is usually red or blue in color. A bare copper wire, or green wire, serves as the ground wire as in 110 volt wiring. The two “hot” wires complete the circuit because one is positively charged while the other is negatively charged. Each wire delivers electricity to the appliance by alternating polarities and doubling the current. Subsequently, this wiring must be connected to a two pole breaker at the circuit panel to account for the two leads. In essence, a two pole breaker is 2 single pole breakers that have been wired together. This type of 220 volt wiring is most commonly used for providing power to electric water heaters, boilers, or condensing units.

4-Wire 220 Volt Wiring
Another type of 220 volt wiring is used to power appliances such as stoves and dryers. These devices require 220 volts to power their main function but use 110 volts to power accessory equipment such as clocks and timers. In addition to the two “hot” wires, this type also contains a white neutral wire to complete the circuit for the accessories that require a 110 volt circuit. As with any type of electrical wiring, a bare copper wire or green wire is also used as the ground wire. As with 3-wire 220 volt wiring, the use of 4-wire 220 volt wiring will require the installation of a two pole breaker in the circuit panel. Changes to the National Electrical Code (NEC) now require that this type of wiring be used predominantly in residential home construction. That is why most of today’s dryers and oven ranges come equipped with a 4-prong plug.

LowWater · Mar 27, 2013

hilboy,

Two interrelated queries:
1) regarding hoophouses, is electricity, be it generated, drawn from house or solar, forbidden? I was fantasizing about using some find of plastic internal coated flexible metal conduit to improvise as hoops, internally stabilized against elements with wiring.

2) regarding greenhouses, How do folks power them safely? Being in Southern California, I'd very much like to use solar power if I could afford it. Imagine a typical grow and don't worry about strict accuracy. What percentage would solar power be vs. drawn from the home? i.e. if solar cost $125 and house cost $75, the Answer would approximate 167%.

Grow Room Electrical

Grow Room Electrical

Natural

Natural

caveman4.20

Natural

fishwhistle

caveman4.20

deniro

MidniteGardener

WestCoaster

samino

washburn4life

washburn4life

MidniteGardener

washburn4life

Natural

MidniteGardener

Natural

MidniteGardener

Natural

LowWater

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