Grow Room Electrical

masshole61 · Nov 3, 2013

Realizing now how little I know @ electricity and how it works. I know very little @ what I'm trying to do and am hoping you at the farm can give me some advice. Know that I am having a liscenced electrician do all the work but being that I live in a new med state there are no electricians familiar with what I'm doing.
I have an 8x12 shed that I'd like to wire with 4 gavita1000de lights which draw 5 amps ( I believe) with an 18200 btu lg mini split which draws 17 amps. Im also going to need enough electricity for at least 4 fans and a dehumidifier .
These are my questions.
What sized breaker will I need on my main panel that leads to my shed?
What sized wire do I need to run underground to my shed?
Do I need a sub panel?
What's the most practical light timer for for this many lights?
If I use a subpanel what gage wire do I run to my timer and from my timer to my lights?
What gage wire do I run to my outlets for fans and dehumidifier
Thanks in advance for your time and input.
There are some seriously smart people on this forum.

Natural · Nov 3, 2013

The Gavitas will use 5 amps at 220v..the LG mini split will run 8.5 amps @ 220v...the 17 amps will be if you ran it @ 120v.
The size of the panel is up to you. You might could squeak by with a 40 amp..but bigger is better so go with the 50 amp 220v. The circuit @ your main panel will match the one in your sub..or at least match the amps. Hopefully you can do a straight run from your main to the subpanel. As for the wire (by far the most costly part of the equation) check with local code..either you use UF wire bare or you can use THWN (romex) inside 1" pvc conduit..buried in the ground. The wire size should be #6 Cu 4-wire...but consult with your electrician..that could change if you have right angles in your run or if the run is very long. Expect to install an earth ground rod @ your sub to be in compliance. The wire size coming from your sub-panel will be according to how you wire it. The fans and dehumidifiers will use 120v...depending on the breaker you desire..either 15 or 20 amps you will use 14-2 or 12-2. Also distance of runs is a factor or the desire to upgrade later. As for the light timers...I recommend buying a 220v load center power-box that has a 120v timer relay that will power all 4 lights at once. The power box will likely be a 30 amp 220v unit..the wire size will be #10 Cu 4-wire. Consult with your electrician before purchasing your materials.

Natural · Nov 7, 2013

Someone pointed out to me my unclear language..so
Just to keep things copacetic..when I say THWN and put "romex" in parentheses..I don't mean you can put romex in pvc or metal conduit and be within code. THWN is made specifically for exterior underground conduit applications. It has better weather proof sheathing (regular romex does not) and all wires are sheathed including ground. If you wanted to go without conduit use the UF (Underground Feed)..you will not have an easy time feeding UF through any type of conduit.

oregonized · Nov 16, 2013

I have a small voltage DC question about fans and potentiometers.

I am running a microcab, sorry big boys, need to learn before I step up!

Is there a way to run two fans in parallel off one power supply and separating the circuit so that only one fan is controlled with a 1k ohm pot, while the other fan just uses the 12v signal unencumbered? Or will each fan need a pot? Or....plan b with LM317's?

Right now I am rewiring it, but the current config has the power supply, 12v exhaust fan and 12v interior fan wired after the pot all running into a terminal strip to connect in parallel, but both fans are being voltage controlled and terribly [5k ohm pot][way too high of restistance, I know, I asked for advice and then realized the mistake.]

Specs:
12V 500mA power supply
12v Fans .215 mA apiece
5k ohm pot [I have 1k ohm pots] [These are way overkill I realize for these specs, but the only affordable pots I could find with 500mA ratings.

Thank you...hopefully that is not too illegible

PerfectCure · Nov 16, 2013

Quick question here.... I just want to make sure what i'm thinking is good to go. I have a 3 prong dryer outlet with a dedicated 2 pole 30amp breaker. (I'm trying to hook up my Helioes 4 240v light controller ) I looked in my breaker box and found a grounded bare ground wire following the same(red,black,white) 3 wires. At the outlet I found the 3 wires connected to the 3 prong outlet and the brae wire grounded to the outlet box. So my question is can I switch this over to a 4 prong outlet(because I have a exsisting ground wire)? then finish with 4 prong male connected with 10/3 with ground wire to the controller? Thanks for any help.....

Natural · Nov 16, 2013

PerfectCure said:
Quick question here.... I just want to make sure what i'm thinking is good to go. I have a 3 prong dryer outlet with a dedicated 2 pole 30amp breaker. (I'm trying to hook up my Helioes 4 240v light controller ) I looked in my breaker box and found a grounded bare ground wire following the same(red,black,white) 3 wires. At the outlet I found the 3 wires connected to the 3 prong outlet and the brae wire grounded to the outlet box. So my question is can I switch this over to a 4 prong outlet(because I have a exsisting ground wire)? then finish with 4 prong male connected with 10/3 with ground wire to the controller? Thanks for any help.....

Yes..you're in good shape. Someone more than likely wired the 3 prong outlet to fit their dryer when they should have changed the whip.

PerfectCure · Nov 16, 2013

Natural · Nov 16, 2013

PerfectCure said:
THX!

..and just to be safe.. make sure you test each leg to the ground..some dumb-ass may have wired your neutral wire (white) as a hot. So test the hot legs (black & red) to your ground (green/bare) each should read 110 volts and test the neutral (white) against ground it should be close to zero. Everything looks good from the pix...it's just the proper thang to do.

Alice D · Nov 18, 2013

Man you got your hands full here don't you? So I'm fairly familiar with electrical but I'm wondering what is 3 wire specifically used for. Meaning black and red hot then white is neutral and green being ground. So I've hooked up multiple sub panels and mini splits but I never use the red wire. I always just hooked it as white and black to the double pull breaker and a ground for 240v. Or if it's 120v then white to the side of the panel dedicated for neutral black to the breaker and ground to the ground bar. I was reading over some old posts and you explained to another farmer that his dryer was most likely a 2 wire but he would need a 3 wire because of ballast and timers and such. I guess my question is am I suppost to be hooking up a sub panel with a neutral? I've never had any problems in a lot of years doing without.

Natural · Nov 18, 2013

So anytime you alter a 220v circuit..it's supposed to be brought up to code. Code is 3 wire with a ground for all 22ov circuits. Depends who you talk to about what the main reasons are..but basically it is because some new 220v appliances also demand the use of 120v along the same circuit..such as timers or clocks and lights etc. The reason for the white wire is to complete one hot leg of the 220v (120v) to a neutral (white) allowing you to have 120v service within your 220v circuit. It is only certain appliances that would utilize this 120v power source...for the majority of 220v appliances all that is needed is 2 hot legs (black and red and a ground (green/bare copper)..there is no neutral needed. The reason NEC requires all new work to be 3 wire with ground is because they don't want someone to try and wire the ground in place of a neutral to gain 120v within a circuit..as you can imagine that would be very unsafe. At your main panel the neutral buss and the ground buss may be conjoined/bridged..but inside of a sub-panel those buss bars have to be separated by code..otherwise you risk your ground to neutral along a circuit.
If you have been wiring the white wire as hot..that would be illegal. You would have to re-wire or use colored marker to show the neutral as "hot".
Let me know if you need more explanation.

oregonized · Nov 18, 2013

Uploaded my fan schematic for Post # 464, both fans are acting like one when pot is adjusted. I would like to separate my interior fan from the exhaust fan. The pot only will control my interior fan and not the exhaust.

Thanks. bump

Alice D · Nov 19, 2013

Natural said:
So anytime you alter a 220v circuit..it's supposed to be brought up to code. Code is 3 wire with a ground for all 22ov circuits. Depends who you talk to about what the main reasons are..but basically it is because some new 220v appliances also demand the use of 120v along the same circuit..such as timers or clocks and lights etc. The reason for the white wire is to complete one hot leg of the 220v (120v) to a neutral (white) allowing you to have 120v service within your 220v circuit. It is only certain appliances that would utilize this 120v power source...for the majority of 220v appliances all that is needed is 2 hot legs (black and red and a ground (green/bare copper)..there is no neutral needed. The reason NEC requires all new work to be 3 wire with ground is because they don't want someone to try and wire the ground in place of a neutral to gain 120v within a circuit..as you can imagine that would be very unsafe. At your main panel the neutral buss and the ground buss may be conjoined/bridged..but inside of a sub-panel those buss bars have to be separated by code..otherwise you risk your ground to neutral along a circuit.
If you have been wiring the white wire as hot..that would be illegal. You would have to re-wire or use colored marker to show the neutral as "hot".
Let me know if you need more explanation.

I'm a little confused about the last statement using the white wire as hot... When using say 6/2 wire to run a 220v-8 light control box there is no red wire to use as the second hot leg so I use the white wire. Is 2 wire only used in 120v applications?
Man I think I get what your saying and I'm frustrated the guy that showed me electrical would be so cheap or lamb to not teach someone the correct way. He runs a crew for one of the bigger company's in our area but I'm guessing just made it work when he showed me about running electrical. I've been adding temporary sub panels and wiring in 4-8 gang box's for 15+ years and have never used a red wire. If I understand you right that's not cool. So no matter what white wire never touches a breaker,correct? Last you say the sub panels buss's need to be separated, do most sub panels come with their buss's separated or is there a bar I'm suppost to remove because I was never taught this either. He did show me that at the main panel either buss could take neutral or ground but at the sub panel they had to be separated but never said why or witch side was used for neutral and the other ground. Thank you for the insight I appreciate it a lot. I'll be fixing my mistakes ASAP.

Natural · Nov 19, 2013

Alice D said:
I'm a little confused about the last statement using the white wire as hot... When using say 6/2 wire to run a 220v-8 light control box there is no red wire to use as the second hot leg so I use the white wire. Is 2 wire only used in 120v applications?
Man I think I get what your saying and I'm frustrated the guy that showed me electrical would be so cheap or lamb to not teach someone the correct way. He runs a crew for one of the bigger company's in our area but I'm guessing just made it work when he showed me about running electrical. I've been adding temporary sub panels and wiring in 4-8 gang box's for 15+ years and have never used a red wire. If I understand you right that's not cool. So no matter what white wire never touches a breaker,correct? Last you say the sub panels buss's need to be separated, do most sub panels come with their buss's separated or is there a bar I'm suppost to remove because I was never taught this either. He did show me that at the main panel either buss could take neutral or ground but at the sub panel they had to be separated but never said why or witch side was used for neutral and the other ground. Thank you for the insight I appreciate it a lot. I'll be fixing my mistakes ASAP.

What he's teaching you is how to save money..not how to work under code. The most important thing to remember is who sees this work..are you leaving this work for others to work with. That's why I always test my lines with a mulit-meter, because we never know who did what before us. If you install a circuit or re-wire a circuit that will be left behind and permanent..always install legally by code. If it's for your own devices and will never be touched by another..there is no-one to complain and you just have to remember what it is you did. It is perfectly legal to use a Neutral (white) as a hot wire..we just have to indicate it with colored marker. Just want you to know code and why it is code.
The only reason we use a Neutral wire in 220..is to get 120v out of that circuit..there is no other reason. So unless you are needing some 120v..the white will be grounded at the main..but will be capped at your receptacles when using 3-wire with ground. If you save money by buying 2-wire with ground and you wire your Neutral hot..color the end with a sharpie and/or make sure it isn't any work another person will touch or see. The choice is yours..but always keep code in mind and the possibility of others having to work with the wiring you have done.
peace

IPlay4Keepz · Jan 23, 2014

I by no means am mechanically inclined and lean more towards mechanically handicapped so some help here would be great. I had this 6 light controller made for a 220v 30 amp outlet at my old place, but I had to leave that place due to security issues.

My problem is now that I'm at my new place the dryer outlet here is different and to top it off I can't find the proper outlet at any of the electrical supply stores I've visited.
Can anyone tell me what kinda outlet I should be asking for when I call the store? I really don't want to show anyone the lighting controller as it looks highly suspect here in the Caribbean and ppl here are stupid nosy. Here are pics of the plug:

I apologize ahead of time if my question has an obvious answer but I really need to locate this outlet ASAP and I'm failing -Keepz

Natural · Jan 23, 2014

Can you snap a quick pix of the female plug @ your new 30 amp outlet? The main thing to remember is that your working with a 4 prong style plug with your controller..which has 2 hot 220v wires (red and black)..plus the usual green ground wire..but in addition you also have a white neutral wire that will complete the circuit for one of the hot legs providing you with regular 120v power. Notice the regular plugs on your controller for fans and what not. If where you are at only has 220v style plugs for regular small devices such as they do in Europe, you may have to rewire your whip (cordset) to match the female outlet and over-ride and not wire the regular 120v. Which would still give you your main 220v plugs. It may be you just need to change that whip and not the female plug. Get us that pix and we can try and walk you through it. Wish I knew more about electrical requirements where you are at. Do you have a multi-meter voltage tester..if not it may be wise to pick one up.

seaslug · Jan 23, 2014

Oregonized, you got me stumped. Based on my experience building desktop PCs, that should work. I don't recall what resistance the pots are.

IPlay4Keepz · Jan 24, 2014

Natural said:
Can you snap a quick pix of the female plug @ your new 30 amp outlet? The main thing to remember is that your working with a 4 prong style plug with your controller..which has 2 hot 220v wires (red and black)..plus the usual green ground wire..but in addition you also have a white neutral wire that will complete the circuit for one of the hot legs providing you with regular 120v power. Notice the regular plugs on your controller for fans and what not. If where you are at only has 220v style plugs for regular small devices such as they do in Europe, you may have to rewire your whip (cordset) to match the female outlet and over-ride and not wire the regular 120v. Which would still give you your main 220v plugs. It may be you just need to change that whip and not the female plug. Get us that pix and we can try and walk you through it. Wish I knew more about electrical requirements where you are at. Do you have a multi-meter voltage tester..if not it may be wise to pick one up.

Thanks for the quick reply. I should have made it clear that my new place is in the same country as my old place so I'm pretty sure they sell the 4 prong outlets. Here is a pic of the current outlet:

IPlay4Keepz · Jan 24, 2014

Do I just call more electrical supply places and ask for a 240v 30A 4-prong outlet or do I have to ask for a specific model or type? This is a small island country so even if I have to call every place in the phonebook to find this outlet I will. I would prefer to keep my 12ov so I can time the large centrifugal fans along with my lights on the same breaker. Thanks again for being so generous with your time and wealth of knowledge -Keepz

PButter · Jan 24, 2014

Yeah, Iplay, change out the whip, or the plug and you'll be set- whatever you can find easiest.

I don't wanna speak outta turn or anything- natural has the info going on for sure +100 Natural

PButter · Jan 24, 2014

IPlay4Keepz said:
Do I just call electrical supply places and ask for a 240v 30A 4-prong outlet or do I have to ask for a specific model or type? I would prefer to keep my 12ov so I can time the large centrifugal fans along with my lights on the same breaker. Thanks again for being so generous with your time and wealth of knowledge -Keepz

I don't know of any other 4 prongs... doesn't mean these capitalist pigs didn't make em'... Email the elec guy the photo and he'll get the right one for ya..

Grow Room Electrical

Grow Room Electrical

masshole61

Natural

Natural

oregonized

PerfectCure

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Natural

PerfectCure

Natural

Alice D

Natural

oregonized

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Alice D

Natural

IPlay4Keepz

Natural

seaslug

IPlay4Keepz

IPlay4Keepz

PButter

RUN!!!

PButter

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Grow Room Electrical

Grow Room Electrical

masshole61

Natural

Natural

oregonized

PerfectCure

Attachments

Natural

PerfectCure

Natural

Alice D

Natural

oregonized

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Alice D

Natural

IPlay4Keepz

Natural

seaslug

IPlay4Keepz

IPlay4Keepz

PButter

RUN!!!

PButter

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