Growing a seedling bank

[Frankster]

It was suggested that I kinda hijacked another thread of wolfs, so I'll continue it here.

This subject is of great interest to me. The thread can be found here:



I've checked my propagation rates, and I'll share some photo's here. You can have great genetics, but if they don't grow for the guy receiving them, he's going to be mad, and not leave good feedback, that's detrimental and counterproductive, so I've developed stringent testing protocols to make sure things are done properly, and propagation rates are high.

One thing I've noticed, it typically takes a few weeks for most of these strains to stratify and become fertile, there generally not that way straight off the plant. Once they become stratified, they get refrigerated.

Storage Temperature: 6c (43f) to 8c (46f) / Germination temps: 24C (75f)

Hence, the most expert growers have a refrigerator just for this purpose, with low temperatures being constantly maintained. The same is true with regards to humidity: if you do not want your seeds to suffer any damage it is advisable to keep them in places with a relative humidity of around 20-30%

To keep your seeds in a cool place you'll only have to make some space for them in your fridge at home. (if it is a no-frost model, and in the fruits and vegetables crisper, even better), though ensuring that it is dry enough for their proper preservation will be a bit more complicated.

Humidity via pearls of silica gel inside a sealed bag so that, even if the outdoor humidity rises, or the temperature varies, we can be confident that the air is completely dry inside.

Azomite is also a nice mild desiccant that will control humidity, and will benefit rapid root production prior to sprouting, I like to use this even better. It's a pre-existing enhancement that should give the seeds a quick start and higher success rates. Notice how some of the starts got real long and grew right thru the napkin, that's GROWTH.

I also like to hit them with a tad (1/4 tsp) per liter, Rapid Start after transplant.

 

[Frankster]

Here's some photo's of the strains I'm developing so far...

 

[One drop]

Hi creating a seed bank is a big aim of mine I was lucky late summer to have 2 NL#1 male & female which I seeded up and also had a Strawberry Cough female which got seeded up as well with great success and now I'm doing the same but it's SL#1 male and female and also crossing back with a NL#1 female as well .
Hopefully if I have a good summer I'll get a few in my back yard to grow out I feel safe having a good bank making it is fun as well .

 

[Frankster]

These are the last of the Mohicans for this grow, can you see the seeds?

 

[Frankster]

Yep, good fun for sure. I mean, doing it on a professional level would be a monumental task, but perhaps the little guys could create a confederation of breeders, and do so with a science based approach.

Networking is the key, because advertisement, marketing all the selling end is the main problem for the small time breeder. If you had a group of 10 or 100 accomplished breeders, I suspect you'd have something worthwile. Not only for the end consumer, but for everyone involved.

I can see from here, there are several disparate components to running a successful seed bank, and the skill-sets required are all over the place. A consortium would be the most logical approach, especially for the average Joe. I know for sure there are lot's of individual strains out there, that people have been sitting on for years, if they entered an association of types, IP property could be protected for the future.

Lawyers, accounting, advertising, media, networking, feedback, website development, distribution could all be standardized or work as a shared asset. That would be the huge advantage, setting back and doing the grows and just getting a check cut for your high quality labors, for what you bring to the table so to speak.

I know a small army of former (and currently) homeless/disabled veterans here in Seattle that would jump at the chance to make some money for themselves, if the proper goods were in line to make this a great success. Give back to those who've been hurt by cannabis prohibition the most... Not a handout, but a hand up, and a JOB.

 

[MHippie]

It was suggested that I kinda hijacked another thread of wolfs, so I'll continue it here.

This subject is of great interest to me. The thread can be found here:



I've checked my propagation rates, and I'll share some photo's here. You can have great genetics, but if they don't grow for the guy receiving them, he's going to be mad, and not leave good feedback, that's detrimental and counterproductive, so I've developed stringent testing protocols to make sure things are done properly, and propagation rates are high.

One thing I've noticed, it typically takes a few weeks for most of these strains to stratify and become fertile, there generally not that way straight off the plant. Once they become stratified, they get refrigerated.

Storage Temperature: 6c (43f) to 8c (46f) / Germination temps: 24C (75f)

Hence, the most expert growers have a refrigerator just for this purpose, with low temperatures being constantly maintained. The same is true with regards to humidity: if you do not want your seeds to suffer any damage it is advisable to keep them in places with a relative humidity of around 20-30%

To keep your seeds in a cool place you'll only have to make some space for them in your fridge at home. (if it is a no-frost model, and in the fruits and vegetables crisper, even better), though ensuring that it is dry enough for their proper preservation will be a bit more complicated.

Humidity via pearls of silica gel inside a sealed bag so that, even if the outdoor humidity rises, or the temperature varies, we can be confident that the air is completely dry inside.

Azomite is also a nice mild desiccant that will control humidity, and will benefit rapid root production prior to sprouting, I like to use this even better. It's a pre-existing enhancement that should give the seeds a quick start and higher success rates. Notice how some of the starts got real long and grew right thru the napkin, that's GROWTH.

I also like to hit them with a tad (1/4 tsp) per liter, Rapid Start after transplant.

Ok so here's the deal so you know what's up with my know it all ass. I'm a programmer, developer guy and own a small dev company. Been at it for a long long long time. Websites, mobile apps, enterprise and backoffice infrastructue, seo, sem, social media marketing management, project management, brand enhancement, data aggrragation... the list is very long.

Growing for me is my hobby on steroids thing. I won't sell to anyone, acknowledge I grow shit, and sometimes toss coffee cans with the frosty nug inside into my friends' respective back seats when they aren't looking. There is no "show your grow". 3 people can put my face with a plant. 2 old school hippie growers like me. (Hair is long gone by the way. I'm a hairless hippie. New breed. Need some certification for that or something.) And of course my wife. That's all. I love the Farm because I can chatter away like a soccer mom eating her kids' adderal. Because my wife sure as shit doesn't want to hear another thing about the crazy thing that plant did. Not after 23 years. Nope. If she says "You wanna see something cool?" oh yeah time to chit chat about plants. But until this place? It was me chattering to my dogs. That's just fucking old man weird weird.

There aren't many people here who are going to participate in your thread who don't know about seed germ and storage. I'll bet you I can name 10 guys right now that you want on this thread that aren't going to waste time being instructed. But there are a ton of noobs who could probably benefit from your knowledge base if you skim new threads and stuff.

I'm just trying to help you man. You obviously have passion for what you are doing. Most of us do. Eg. I've got a hybrid test going on between some old school purple shit and a I don't think it was really a white widow. One was needle sativa. The other a sativa/indica mix. The seedlings... Fat leafed fuckers. And then off of my pineapple muffins from humboldt seed co, i have a half dozen seeds. I guess the bees did their thing little fuckers. (gotta have them though) Outdoor peril but well worth it. So now I have some old school purple shit and pineapple muffin crossed seeds. Go research pineapple muffin by hsc. It's one of the products of their 10k plant grow. You want to talk about a 3 hit fuck truck? I was getting trails this afternoon after work. Split a pinner with my wife and zoomy zoom zoom dude. Keep in mind my tolerance is in the toilet because this is the first REAL weed I've had since my fire. All ego out front, most dispensary weed sucks dick compared to what comes off my plants and the street level guys until you know someone? They are just humping somone else's shit. They couldn't grow and cure a plant with a step by step picture book manual and a maid to help.

But that passion? It's a good thing. Keep it. There's magic in these beans. But don't assume for a second that what you are producing is on par or better than anything else that is out there. People are interested in the grow. How does the plant perform? Issues? Vulnerabilities? Sensativities? Bad traits? Good traits? Fast slow low high wide? So this x that. Here's some pics. Guys here are going to want to run some beans. But be prepared to up the fuck out of your game. Because again I can name 10 guys right now who churn and burn some beans bud. I watch A LOT of grows and read A LOT of material.

Find something that hasn't been done. Make some purple pink and black pistel purple leaves monster bitch that puts out a solid heavy dense yield without a lot of bullshit in 60 - 70 day auto. One of those thirsty ass plants that you can't feed enough. And the only thing that will kill it is nute lock. One of those. Then post the grow, answer questions, and people will beat your inbox down for beans. There are bean fiends in these threads bro... I mean fuck a duck bro I hit you for seeds a couple of days ago from your classified, remember? What's in route to me right now? 5 seeds each of 40 strains from a very well recommended breeder. Talked to him on the phone for 15 - 20 minutes. Got a lot in common. T5 HO Flouros by Sunblaze. Check. Use the sun for veg and flower 12 hours a day. Check. Indoor lights only when it is dark or bad weather. Check. He's been growing 3 years longer than I've been alive. Much respect. That's the kind of people you are going to be compared to. Remember that. Humble is good sort of. We all smoke. We all grow. We all know what ultra primo icky sticky is all about.

Like I said. Just trying to help. Besides I'm stoned out of my head, headed to bed in a minute, and can't shut up. Hope you have a good night and that you get something positive from this.

 

[Frankster]

Yea, that's why I actually came off the money for some another round of new genetics, ($300) and did some fairly extensive research, because there are a lot of good genetics out there, and every year it gets better. Especially in the auto variety, it's fast evolving. That said, many of the better autos seem to be coming from EU right now, and there not always reliable or quick about getting them shipped out, I've had some troubles. But I've got much much more acquired by other methods.

So I turned to a Canadian this time around, one that's obviously got the goods.

But you are 100% right about topics and threads. Building a relationship with peers and building knowledge base is important, while connecting the dot's for others and helping to enable them to learn more about this wonderful plant is challenging, at minimum. Finding others that could share a common vision, probably impossible. But you never know. People are not going to move outside their comfort zone, and most accomplished people already have gigs.

Regardless of how things pan out for me, I'll have fun with it, but it sure would be nice to build something worthwhile that would endure, and prosper, and pay back to the community. I've got a lot of ideas, but am only one individual.

I'm also pretty old.

My idea of a seed company would not entail filling packages everyday, taking orders, all that "distribution" aspect, that's not going to happen here. I could certainly get it started, but I would want to hire it out at some point, (or educate capable individuals, and give them a fair slice) and really focus on the growing part, like many others here are already doing.

As a nurse for over 2 decades, I've had a fair amount of experience developing protocols while teaching others, and proving/overseeing delivery of care, documentation, and the nursing process.

 

[MHippie]

Yea, that's why I actually came off the money for some another round of new genetics, ($300) and did some fairly extensive research, because there are a lot of good genetics out there, and every year it gets better. Especially in the auto variety, it's fast evolving. That said, many of the better autos seem to be coming from EU right now, and there not always reliable or quick about getting them shipped out, I've had some troubles. But I've got much much more acquired by other methods.

So I turned to a Canadian this time around, one that's obviously got the goods.

But you are 100% right about topics and threads. Building a relationship with peers and building knowledge base is important, while connecting the dot's for others and helping to enable them to learn more about this wonderful plant is challenging, at minimum. Finding others that could share a common vision, probably impossible. But you never know. People are not going to move outside their comfort zone, and most accomplished people already have gigs.

Regardless of how things pan out for me, I'll have fun with it, but it sure would be nice to build something worthwhile that would endure, and prosper, and pay back to the community. I've got a lot of ideas, but am only one individual.

I'm also pretty old.

My idea of a seed company would not entail filling packages everyday, taking orders, all that "distribution" aspect, that's not going to happen here. I could certainly get it started, but I would want to hire it out at some point, (or enable capable individuals to make a slice) and really focus on the growing part, like many others here are already doing.

As a nurse for 20 years, I've had a fair amount of experience developing protocols while teaching others, and proving/overseeing delivery of care, documentation, and the nursing process.

Cool :)

 

[Frankster]

Cool :)

These are the strains I picked up.

GG#4 x Mazar Auto, White Widow x Mazar Auto, Purple Haze Mazar Auto and Miss Early Auto, the first photo and the grow tent is full of the the White Widow, and the Early Miss is the second photo all look very interesting indeed.

 

[One drop]

I’d love to get some new genetics that’s why I’ve been trying to breed with what I’ve got I live in a totally non legal country except for one state out of the 7 we have been extremely hard to get new seeds I treat every male like a gift . Od

 

[Frankster]

Yea, really good strains are hard to come by, your going to find a few gems in the rough here or there. If you find good seeds in smoke, keep them, sometimes they are really good ones. Some are actually found on accident. Others, you have to seek out, and again, it's hit and miss, but I'm pretty confident I made a good move on this purchase.

Plus, I've just got another 20 something strains sent to me from my vendor, so plenty of exotics to play around with. I've probably already got another dozen so far. So I'm really starting to get up there, maybe 20-25+ strains, over half of them auto-flowering strains. I can't wait, I just wish I had a bigger working area. I'll probably have to take a few out to the property and put them outside, I think that's where I might take some of these big photo's that are reaching 6+ feet...

Let them spread their wings. It only get's mid 80's up there at the very hottest, and down to the 60's and 70's at night.
One plant each, and I could get all my Afghan, Bubba, Hindu Kushes feminized, along with the VC Charlie, and GG#4, as they are all very large Photoperiods. Won't be the greatest to smoke, but the seeds will be just as good, because I've already gown all these out under lights previously, and they are all phenomenal.

 

[MHippie]

I’d love to get some new genetics that’s why I’ve been trying to breed with what I’ve got I live in a totally non legal country except for one state out of the 7 we have been extremely hard to get new seeds I treat every male like a gift . Od

You've been at this for a while but a suggestion I got from an old school grower (Mark/Strainly) yesterday... When he wants a male, he germs a seed and gives it 10 to 11 hours of light as a "veg". He said more likely than not... they flip hermie or male under a reduced light cycle like that. Man has been growing since 1966. I think I'm going to try some of his tricks and see what happens :)

I've got 6 "special" beans that came from the only male I had this season... some no name purple sativa thing. I'm talking needle leafed sativa. Haven't see anything like that in a long while. Well I pollenated a "I don't think that was a white widow" plant with it. And the bees must have done their thing. Because those 6 beans I'm looking at came out of my Humboldt Seed Company's Pineapple Muffin which I did not pollenate and was NO WHERE near that fem that I did pollenate. But the male and the pineapples were in the same vicinity for growth. The seeds weren't on branched out buds. They were up close and personal bee style. And THAT Pineapple Muffin flower is SO F'NG GOOD. Smells and tastes great. High speedy buzz with a hint of couch glue. But it's like smoking caffeine lol. Crazy shit. I doubt the purple stuff crossed on it will be an improvement, but hey you never know. I'll run the beans. Well 3 of them. (2 for smokage, 1 for a bonsai momma and holding 3 in reserve in case momma kicks it and the shit is actually good...err great)

I've got 7 Purple Mountain Majesty down right now. And just put one on that 11/13 cycle to see if I can get it to flip male. If that happens? SHIT IS ON. I'm going to take that plant and cross it with Humboldt Seed Company's Squirt which I also have down. And we'll see what heavenly goo comes from that. Purple Squirt. Now that would be off the hook cool and I've been talking about it for a couple of months now. If that happens, I've got to figure out how to safely get you some beans OD. Not looking for cash but if it's that hard for you to get good stock, figured I'd offer :) Two people stepped up and really helped me out after our fire and got me to grow again. 1 for a couple of clones that he could barely spare. 1 for the 3 types of HSC beans.

And that guy from Strainly, Mark? Dude. He's got 40 strains, $1 a seed. Buy 100 and they are $80. I was like uhhhhh... "Would it be possible to get 5 of each strain that you have?" He's like I have like 40 strains. I'm like cool! Let's do it :D These are established genetics and he's got EVERYTHING. I think 5 or 6 autos and it's like a bean buffet of omg i think i just peed a little. But that's the way I usually layout new strains when I have some type of seed bank established at home to fuck with. 2 for production, 1 for momma the first time out. If the end result isn't that great or whatever, then I just flower out the momma bonsai and move on.

Damn I'm stoned. I started smoking a pinner at the beginning of this and as usual wrote a novel. Go figure. )(*^%^ weed. And now I get to go to work. Joy.

 

[MHippie]

Yea, really good strains are hard to come by, your going to find a few gems in the rough here or there. If you find good seeds in smoke, keep them, sometimes they are really good ones. Some are actually found on accident. Others, you have to seek out, and again, it's hit and miss, but I'm pretty confident I made a good move on this purchase.

Plus, I've just got another 20 something strains sent to me from my vendor, so plenty of exotics to play around with. I've probably already got another dozen so far. So I'm really starting to get up there, maybe 20-25+ strains, over half of them auto-flowering strains. I can't wait, I just wish I had a bigger working area. I'll probably have to take a few out to the property and put them outside, I think that's where I might take some of these big photo's that are reaching 6+ feet...

Let them spread their wings. It only get's mid 80's up there at the very hottest, and down to the 60's and 70's at night.
One plant each, and I could get all my Afghan, Bubba, Hindu Kushes feminized, along with the VC Charlie, and GG#4, as they are all very large Photoperiods. Won't be the greatest to smoke, but the seeds will be just as good, because I've already gown all these out under lights previously, and they are all phenomenal.

You've got a lot going on there. :) Growing technique questions?

1) Defoliation. Your opinion?
2) Tons of plants v. lst?
3) What are you feeding? Are you all dirt, hybrid, etc?
4) Light... whatcha got going on?

 

[Frankster]

You've got a lot going on there. :) Growing technique questions?

1) Defoliation. Your opinion?
2) Tons of plants v. lst?
3) What are you feeding? Are you all dirt, hybrid, etc?
4) Light... whatcha got going on?

Yea, these are the ones that kinda got "left behind" from March because of limitation size of the flowering room. I've just turned it over again, but I replaced them with another round of autos again, so I've got these to deal with. The plan was to veg these as large as possible, with the existing constraints.

The plan was to veg them most of the summer, and either move them out to the land I've got in the cascades (possibly still) for finish, or possibly let the spread out a bit more, and then bring them back into the flowering room, I'll have to super-crop if I go that route. (I might do a bit of both actually) I've been looking at how to flower both the autos and a few of these also. My auto's are sitting on a big square 5x5 grow platform. So if I arrange the auto in the center, and put the photos around outside, I might get some more vertical budding, it could possibly work. I've been doing a bit of defoliation by simply removing some of the bottom leaves as they are pretty tight, and light is admittedly a problem at the bottom. My school of thought is generally SCROG with minimal netting. I keep adequate air movement to keep any potential problems at bay. (big powerful 20 inch maxx air fans)

I think adequate air flow also helps the leaves get more uniform light coverage (ie. moving) and helps overall vigor by increasing stem strength, keeping pest at bay, among other good things. Heavy air flow is critical for cramped/crowded conditions like these, it's what makes it feasible, otherwise it probably wouldn't work well.

Feeding is all organic for the most part. I'm currently recycling my soil at the present, and re-amend it with humics, phospates, guano, casings, kelp and fish meal and a small quantity of azomite. I do a fair amount of follars, sprays and organic soaps to keep any problems at bay. Crowded conditions obviously take more maintenance...

Lights, I'm using BestVA 3000's and 4000's The flowering room is running the 4000's and the 2x 3000's you see in the picture. I've got several others put away at the moment, double ended HPS/MH hoods, among other LED setups. These 3000's are exceptional, and use a 300pcs Dual-Chip 10W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs, with Avg. Power Draw: 615W. Full Spectrum lighting hybrid. I really like the UV/IR combo, these are wonderful lights. They also have switches for veg/flowering modes that work nice.
280nm ~ 315nm -- Influence on morphological and physiological processes is minimal
315nm ~ 420nm -- Chlorophyll absorbs less impact photoperiod effect, prevent stem elongation
420nm ~ 500nm (blue) -- Chlorophyll and carotenoids absorbed the largest proportion, the greatest impact on photosynthesis
500nm ~ 620nm -- Dye absorption rate is not high
620nm ~ 750nm (red) -- Chlorophyll absorption rate "high", has a significant influence on photosynthesis and photoperiod effect
750nm ~ 1000nm -- Absorption rate, stimulate cell elongation, impact of flowering and seed germination
>1000nm -- Converted into calorie

The 4000's 400 pcs Dual-Chip 10W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs and have a Avg. Power Draw: 690W They are a "true" double ended HPS/MH hood replacement++ costing about $400 on ebay. They run extremely cool... I really like the 120 degree lighting scheme, it's an adjustment, but can be utilized to get some interesting vertical growth, if properly deployed.

Deep penetration is what I'm looking for in lights, and the BestVA 4000's meet that criteria well. I've tried virtually every type. 3's and 5's do very well for top coverage, same can even be said for 1's and 2's to some degree. but they must be dialed down on the plants. 20's might be good for a commercial project were you've got big overhead, but for me the dual 10's are perfect. The fan leaves get very large with these lights.

There's a reason why fan leaves are attached under internodal spaces, and it has a lot to do with the fruiting process.

Hope this covers your questions Hippie. (below, I have one of these, and I elevate it on plastic storage boxes (growing gear storage) The plan is to keep the shorter autos in the center, and surround the platform with the much larger photoperiods, for added vertical exposure, and picking up the currently wasted rays on these 120 degree diodes... Lights are connected by hooks to ceiling via ratchet string type hangers, so they can be adjusted easily...

 

[Frankster]

Here's a shot of the flowering room, as you can see how they are elevated. I can move the tray back some, and get some of the photo's around the edges, in back and fron, maybe on one side also, if I play my cards right... Might involve some supercropping and some trimming, but I think it might work...

I got a little zealous with my humics this time around, but they look like they've recovered fine.

See all that "wasted" sunlight along the edges? I want to utilize that... if possible.

 

[MHippie]

Here's a shot of the flowering room, as you can see how they are elevated. I can move the tray back some, and get some of the photo's around the edges, in back and fron, maybe on one side also, if I play my cards right... Might involve some supercropping and some trimming, but I think it might work...

I got a little zealous with my humics this time around, but they look like they've recovered fine.

See all that "wasted" sunlight along the edges? I want to utilize that... if possible.

The reason I asked about lighting is because of the stretch on some of your huge plants. My opinion re fan leaves is they are like grain silos. When the plant needs it, they draw from them. When they dont, they waste grow energy. Outdoor grows definitely need them. When you're supplying 100% to the plant and storage isnt necessary, I whack them off, along with the bottom 1/3, and inner node bud sites at the bottom which appear to be under developed. Works for me to get light to the bottom nodes that are left. You are over growing your space which means you've got the bug lol :) Happens to all of us. For some of us it never goes away. I'd take it on a plant by plant basis. The cool thing is whacking the shit out of them gets you clones too. There are a number of SOG and SCROG focused grows on here that deal with defoliation and cramped conditions. I recommend you check them out. Your total yield and plant health will thank you for it.

 

[Frankster]

Yea, no question these got cramped and somewhat stretched early on, it was a light constraint at the time actually. I simply had too many plants early on this year, but wanted to make sure I'd planted some of the photo's available for later in the season, as they are ultimately big producers, and a few plants will make enough product to hold me and the other half all year, plus friends or family.

There not totally unmanageable at this point, I figure I'll remove most of the bottom parts and let the tops ripen around the container, all the way up to the lamps, that way the walls become a part of the grow as well. It's going to be a jungle for sure, but the alternative is just bringing them out to the property and letting them go to seed...

 

[MHippie]

Yea, no question these got cramped and somewhat stretched early on, it was a light constraint at the time actually. I simply had too many plants early on this year, but wanted to make sure I'd planted some of the photo's available for later in the season, as they are ultimately big producers, and a few plants will make enough product to hold me and the other half all year, plus friends or family.

There not totally unmanageable at this point, I figure I'll remove most of the bottom parts and let the tops ripen around the container, all the way up to the lamps, that way the walls become a part of the grow as well. It's going to be a jungle for sure, but the alternative is just bringing them out to the property and letting them go to seed...

Either way you cut it you’ve got a large project on your hands. The more “right” you do, the larger the load. How long have you been growing?

 

[Frankster]

I've been growing seriously for about 10 years now.

Leaning toward the seed/breeding part of the industry, so that was my intentions when I did all the starts the year, I've probably done several hundred, and pick though a lot of starts.

Most of that tall stuff was done simply to preserve the genetics I've got and expand the inventory. I really love the kushes, and all those plants have excellent vigor, large size and great potency.

Especially the bubba, that's keeper for sure.

 

[Frankster]

If I grow them outside, I can always concentrate the buds I suppose, make some keifs or concentrates, bubble hash or something. I've got a spot out in the stickers here in the city, I've kinda made some headway into it, and cleared out the center, if it gets enough sunlight, otherwise, up to the cascades, I suppose I should take a few plants up there just to see how they pan out.