Growing medical marijuana for a living...

[p3s7]

the advice you need doesnt come cheap or especially free over the internet - you need to find an attorney that specializes in setting up LLC for non-profit co-ops and retain/pay him for the advice - end of story!

I am going to see an attorney this week. I'll let you know how it turns out for me.

So after all that you come back to the only way for this to work is to grow for profit, right, so why not just setup to do that in the first place instead of conveluding your thought process with all this do gooder smoke and mirrors action.

People document every single expense now, down to the penny, so what, I could tell ya within a couple bucks how much everything I do cost to produce, process and get to market as well as the amortization schedule on all my equipment, again, normal stuff in the game..

Tex

I don't think I'm justifying my thoughts with do gooder smoke and mirror actions. I want to do what I'm good at, what I'm passionate towards legally. Unfortunately the US Gov.'s views towards legality is that if they aren't able to audit/control/maintain the process it is most likely going to be illegal. I just want to make sure I'm on the other side of the line when doing all of this. It doesn't mean that I can't tell you my expenses and amortization schedules down to a couple of bucks as well. I could run an illegal op and do just that but I don't want that.

In the end...IF YOU HAVE TO ASK you are WAYYYYY over your head.

be safe, be well.

s h

I try, but I don't think I can be a specialist at everything. My major took some time, my grow knowledge and skills took years, learning the laws behind everything and complying to every one takes time and effort as well. Just thought I could ask the community in which I've associated with and prided myself in being apart of.

Hey P3s7, I think what Tex is politely trying to tell you is, that ethical MMJ growing is a long time commitment and a perfect living ... If you like, 24/7...365 work schedules. If you become good at it, you might even make some money. Good luck.

I don't party, drink or hang out with friends. I sacrificed so much to do what I'm doing. You have no idea how lonely it can possibly get sometimes when you can't tell anyone what you're doing or what your plans are just to protect yourself. Eventually they stop talking to you and you stop talking to them. It's happened over and over. I can't even keep a gf even though they've been understanding, conflict of interest gets the best of things. You can never trust those that don't share the same liability as you in this business, and I haven't had to find out the hard way because of the sacrifices I've made. I spent 300 hours last month setting everything up single-handedly. If I need to get a 4.0 and do this then its going to be done. I have tons of street smarts to have been doing this at 15 and still going strong now. I'm not some noob that just came into the scene asking dumb questions in hopes of striking it rich. It's hard to argue on this matter over the internet because we all don't know each other the way we think we do.

Maybe one day we'll all be sitting around in a circle passing joints around together. Who knows.


-p3

 

[p3s7]

Okay p3 let me school you a bit on what the clubs want... If you want to be a supplier for a club they want a couple of things that you have to think about .. One thing is they want quality bud on a regular basis and not to be dicked around. Has to be consistent or you will be known as the grower that only brings in shit weed and not really worth investing time into.Lots of ppl can grow sweet weed but they can't keep it up. Not many ppl can supply like that unless they are set up in a pretty big place that takes a lot of electricity which is usually tracked by police and hydro companies. My suggestion to you is go to the club ask other growers and then see if you can do or be what they need first before you invest anything peace out Headband707

I agree that dispensaries carry high quality meds but those are their top shelves which only comprise of about 20% of their meds. 80% of the rest of their meds are mid grades that were just grown dense and smelly. Sometimes its not even like that.
I have yet to seen anything at dispensaries like what I can do, but I'm not saying that there arn't any out there. I'm not being cocky or ignorant. It would be impossible for me to visit every single dispensary for that. That's not my job. I've got Gigs of images compiled over the years. I'm about to wipe my drive soon and transfer everything on my comp to a flash. Probably tomorrow if I have the time.


Be happy with who you are and what you can do.
-p3

 

[headband707]

Yup your bud looks sweet and if you don't have the top bud your right they will still sell it but they won't give you as much. I would try to sell the best but that is just me. If your going to do it, be the best you can be at it. The amount of nutes your going to need just for one grow as you know will be high if done right good luck and peace out Headband707

 

[DazedNconfussed]

p3s7...that is some beautiful weed....very nice....

 

[p3s7]

Thanks headband!

I'm just worried that if I sign into contract with a collective/disp. then I'd be giving away top quality meds for mediocre prices like what TEX described in another post. If so, I'd be losing at least 15k per harvest (market price - actual price). For me it all comes down to whether 15k a month is worth not going to prison for. Unless I have a close friend who owns a collective who's willing to sign over patient slips or open my own collective, no collective owner will do that for me without something in return.

Options:
1) sign into contract
2) open collective
3) operate as usual and just stay safe and under the radar
4) drop everything and take a huge loss

Right now options 1&3 seem to be the way to go. But like I said I'm just seeking the advice for my situation from people that have been through or know people that have been through what I'm going through now. I'm looking for more outs (options).

Does anyone know if I need to file anything to form a grow collective where I'd be doing this with a collective of patients. I won't have a store-front or anything. IF I don't need to file anything for that then I already have my collective agreement drafted and can start asap with getting the signatures and copy of recs from patients.

-p3

 

[p3s7]

Thank you Dazed! :)

 

[sedate]

Okay now I really don't get it.

p3s7 - having read through your posts - I think you are trying to build a business into a framework that doesn't exist . . . but without going there . . .

I'm just worried that if I sign into contract with a collective/disp. then I'd be giving away top quality meds for mediocre prices like what TEX described in another post. If so, I'd be losing at least 15k per harvest (market price - actual price).

Dispensaries offer me wholesale street prices - $1000 per 112g - what in the world is "losing" about that?

 

[p3s7]

They would be paying around 3000 for my meds and in return I would get all the documents to grow for their patient base.

If I didn't enter into contract and get those documents I would be operating illegally but then I'd be able to walk into any disensary and offer my product on my terms.

If I did enter into contract and got the documents and patient slips the dispensaries are going to want something in return from me...usually low ball prices.

It just depends if your trying to stay illegal and get market price for your meds or go legal and give up an opportunity cost.

This wouldn't apply to small time growers that stay within their plant limits. I could use 5kw to grow 5 plants or 50 plants, unfortunately my case is the later.

Here is how the current despensary model operates today in most places that have been open for a week or so...

A grower comes in with samples of his work, usually gram baggies with a flavor in each. They usually leave it because the owner will not take to much time for the line of new growers that come through the door every single day.

Usually most of the growers are there because they want the quick easy out for their product and/or they are trying to figure out someway to get some patients to cover their numbers because they are way over and scared of gettin popped, all the wrong reason IMO.

If your decent or even halfway decent, they will offer you an opprotunity to be an inhouse/contract/project grower for that despensary.....what an ego boost eh..and they do it first thing before you go roamin around to other outlets to get you locked in.

They will give you a contract to grow, and give you 1-5 patients slips to cover your numbers in exchange for a fixed price for your finished product, usually $3000-$3300/lb,

They usually expect 1lb per patient slip per cycle, so you basically have to pull 1lb per three plants in flower or 1lb per 1k light, its about the same.

You are on contract with them, the slips you get will not have your name on them, nowhere will you legally be protected other than by the contract agreement you have with the despensary, which according to the states own website, they are not regulated, governed, recognized, nor controlled, so your agreement is worthless IMO. You will have a pile of plants, a bunch of cards with the despensary owners name on them and the patients name on them...you are not even legally in the mix according to the state. hey but at least you can tell them you are a sub contractor, on paper/contract with a federally illegal business, I am sure that will fly in court..

Most new young growers jump on the deal and take the $3000/lb and go out in the parkin lot and jerk off before they speed home to tell everybody they know what they are doin and how much money they are goin to make and start lookin at new rice rockets and sports cars on the internet. I know $3000 is more than some of them have had in their hand at one time but DAMN, you guys are draggin the whole price structure down with you the whole while we are trying to push it up. Honestly, I see more growers volunteering to drop thier pants and take less money just because they don't have any nuts, don't have any confidence in their product, don't know anybody to sell to, already picked out the new car and committed so they got to have the money, rents due...any or all could be true but for whatever reasom people are not commanding nor demanding what i consider a fair price for what we do. i can't really blame the despensary owners, If I could get you to take no money for your killer product, I am goin to do it all day long but you can say no or even fuck off!! not thank you sir may I have another...

So now your under contract to produce med grade marijuana for some guy at a rate of $750/qp, before taxes mind you because you are a contract grower you are goin to be getting a 1099-misc statement from the despensary. You are actually being paid to grow and you are not being paid for your product, 1099's are for services rendered or work performed in excess of $600.00, so that is how they set it up. So now your badass $750 a QP is approx $540/qp or $135/oz or $2,160/lb after you take care of your own taxes at the end of the year. After doin this alot of years, you have to get your unit cost per once down there pretty low to make money at $135/oz, I mean you still have rent, electric, nutes, genetics, hassle, every month, hell you may want to eat or even have a beer also..how many onces do you have to knock out to survive at those prices? a few pounds a cyle bare minimum or you need to keep you day job for sure..and you might just go backwards..and that is dry wieght gang, ready to go to market..not as easy as you think

No matter what the despensary owner pays the minimum they are going to sell anything of quality $35-$45/eighth and in most cases much higher. Don't anyone think that the despensary owners savy way of inslaving up and coming growers for no money gets passed on to the patients because it doesn't.

Edibles are just about to be regulated to the hilt by municipalities, they are goin to get the health department in the mix, inspectors, inspcect certified kitchens, require proper packaging and accuarte labelling as well as specific titrades or dosage of the cannabis product certified and on the label with ingredience on there also, not brownie mix and ganja, i think they want a little more detail than that...lol Probably most of the employees are goin to have to have food handling certificates or even more because they physically handle the meds or medical grade products that are being distributed directly to patients.

Alcohol suspended tinctures and oils are goin to be subject to an alcohol excise tax, especially if prepared with grain alcohol or some other spirit..get ready

So that is pretty much the current state of despensary activity in effect in Colorado

Back to the streets....

Tex

 

[p3s7]

Back to the streets....

Tex

guess so huh?

As long as you've got everything in place to protect yourself on the streets then by all means go for it, I'd do the same if I get it all together like that.

I'm not really too worried anymore because I figured that human effort is what it really comes down to. Its up to you to keep the smell down, to surveillance your area and to adjust to any changes into your macro environment. For example, I've decided that every month I'm just going to have to have (1) 1k light running in each room when the leccy meter reader comes just to keep the light cycle going. This isn't going to harm the plants in the long run. And what, I only need to do this twice in a whole cycle.

Until I get my surveillance up I'm still going to worry a little in the back of my head because anything can happen during the times I'm not present.

-p3:character0095:

 

[Sway]

back to the streets is right. dispensaries are a joke. do whats been done for decades and decades. all your paper work and effort into being "legal" doesnt matter anyway. you will still get popped and they will laugh at you when you try to hide behind your paper work that doesnt mean anything.
grow the most incredible herb u can, and deal with your friends only. if you dont have friends, looks like you should make some responsible grower buddies.

 

[Texas Kid]

One thing to keep in mind gang is that most legal medical patients don't buy their medicine at despensaries, it's on the street from other med patients.

Tex

 

[AnitaBonghitt]

I have a question

I hope I'm not hijacking or asking something that already been addressed but...

Say your state is now legal..... you set up a business supplying medical MJ to med patients. You get your sales tax number and/or business license ....


Is it regulated by the food and drug admin?(like any other drug company's or a food service business )Is there any regulation at all??altho, I don't hear/read about it, surely the gov. or state is not gonna allow just anyone even with growing experience, to supply medicine to sick people... Is it gonna be treated like herbals or vitamins in that aspect.. What about product testing? On humans or animals? Drug company's have to run very extensive tests on there products, ie... testing the effects/ side effects and the issues they have on the body etc.....

Will OSHA be involved? I can see them coming in to inspect my grow room ie.. wiring, fans, safety issues , etc...

What about product quality,Who inspects that. gonna list all the ingredients on the label (100% ganja:smiley_joint:) will it include the ingredients in the nutes? maybe just chem or organic??? (example... burger king list all the ingredients in there french fries including the type of oil used to fry them.)

Maybe regulation just hasn't happened yet...as everything is regulated somehow... IDK ...just sounds too good to be true.. move to a med state and set up shop(I know its way more involved than that but,, thats how it reads)

Thanks all

 

[headband707]

Excelent post Tex..... This is exactly how they run it here ... But are you saying they buy the lb for $3000.00 and sell it in excess of $9000.00? I have seen the prices of the bud in Cali at $70.00 an 1/8 making over $9000.00 lb . These are the prices that shock the shit right out of me!!! Then ppl saying things like" it's really good bud so I don't mind paying it". ARE YOU SHITTING ME? Who in their right mind would want to pay that for bud. Let alone the sick and dying .
Here that would be top price the price they pay for the most part is $2600.00 lb and sell it for $10.00gram or $9.00 making $3840lb and your right none of it comes back to the patients. If what your saying about the growers is true no wonder they don't care what they grow. They are just going to grow the biggest bang for the buck and grow quality for themselves. The part I don't like is when ppl drop off lbs for free and then we have to pay top dollar for a donation.
I only have one side of this story but this is somthing I never thought about before. Here a guy said that he brought 4 lbs to the Dispensary and when he came back they said he only brought 3. He started to argue loudly in their lobby so they called the cops on him and he was arrested for going over his limit.This move has shocked a lot of growers ,to say the lest. Like I said I only know one side of this story but it's not kewl what they did. peace out Headband707:cool0044:

 

[Texas Kid]

Excelent post Tex..... This is exactly how they run it here ... But are you saying they buy the lb for $3000.00 and sell it in excess of $9000.00? I have seen the prices of the bud in Cali at $70.00 an 1/8 making over $9000.00 lb . Headband707:cool0044:

That is exactly what I am saying..$45-$65 is gettin pretty comon for an 1/8th and doesn't matter what trhey pay for it or if it was donated has absolutely no effect on the price out the door.....$12 to $25 a gram is the range around here pretty much and ya gott watch the "scale whippers"

Tex

 

[Rolln J]

theres a place near me that was selling schwaggy cat piss for 70 1/8th!

when I went in to see if they needed vendors (so they wouldnt have to sell schwag anymore) the guy told me we pay 170 an ounce, no matter what the quality!

what!?!?!?!

so here I am with some shit that looks better then anything on the shelf there, and hes paying the same price for schwaggy shit as hes paying for dank - which explains why he has NO dank!

I walked out - fuck that place!

 

[headband707]

If it was a compassion club they do the same shit here. I know plenty of ppl that brought the best bud in town and they turn everyone away. When I asked them why they said because it's up to their growers as to what they grow and have.. WHAT?? Don't you think it should be up to the ppl paying for it ?? I happen to know that they don't even know the top bud out there now !! And that is the club lol pretty bad if you ask me. OH yeah they aren't asking me lol .Which is why they lose business peace out Headband707

 

[headband707]

Herbs are not regulated in Canada and the USA

I hope I'm not hijacking or asking something that already been addressed but...

Say your state is now legal..... you set up a business supplying medical MJ to med patients. You get your sales tax number and/or business license ....


Is it regulated by the food and drug admin?(like any other drug company's or a food service business )Is there any regulation at all??altho, I don't hear/read about it, surely the gov. or state is not gonna allow just anyone even with growing experience, to supply medicine to sick people... Is it gonna be treated like herbals or vitamins in that aspect.. What about product testing? On humans or animals? Drug company's have to run very extensive tests on there products, ie... testing the effects/ side effects and the issues they have on the body etc.....

Will OSHA be involved? I can see them coming in to inspect my grow room ie.. wiring, fans, safety issues , etc...

What about product quality,Who inspects that. gonna list all the ingredients on the label (100% ganja:smiley_joint:) will it include the ingredients in the nutes? maybe just chem or organic??? (example... burger king list all the ingredients in there french fries including the type of oil used to fry them.)

Maybe regulation just hasn't happened yet...as everything is regulated somehow... IDK ...just sounds too good to be true.. move to a med state and set up shop(I know its way more involved than that but,, thats how it reads)

Thanks all

For one thing herbs are not regulated the way they should be which is why they are trying to change that right now with this new Bill C51-C6- C15 which will put a lot of Vitamin Stores and Chinese Herbal Medicine stores out of business. They are throwing cannabis in there for good measure. As far as anyone growing yes anyone can grow but not everyone is good at it or has the room etc. Regulating is good bad thing. For one thing you might get herb that is exactly what they say it is no fucking around and lieing about what the bud is. Personally I don't believe that machine that gives THC counts anyways . This will inevitablly raise the price. Anyone can open a club not everyone can run them right lol. This is Canada not sure how you guys in the US do it.They also don't always flush the pot aswell.
I was always under the impression that the herb was so expensive because it was regualated.. Now Tex is saying this is just the going rate HOLY SHIT.I must admit I think that our prices are bad.. so I feel for you guys having to pay that. peace out Headband707:cool0041:

 

[HappyJackal]

That's the Spirit!

Hey P3, just wanted to big up you for your can do vibe. I'm planning a similar move myself, and thanks Tex for that much needed straight shootin'. Couple of things we all need to remember: Until recently it was impossible to grow or use mj for any reason anywhere in the US (with, like, four individual exceptions), so everyone was an outlaw and had to act like one. That's changed. It is now possible to grow, distribute, and use legally.

The trick seems to be taking advantage of the gray areas (there are still many) and understanding the risks you're running and the rewards you'll likely get. A lot of wrapping your head around it is comparing and contrasting the health provider model that's breaking the ice for the movement with the for-profit model Big Pharma (and any other biz) uses. They're not complementary. No one asks a US health care provider to be non profit, which is what the mmj states are doing to growers etc.

Gray Area example: In the wild wild west of Cali, there are a number of counties that permit a cardholder to grow way more than they can possibly consume. They also permit dispensaries to trade cash for "excess medicine" under the guise of compensation for production expenses. These counties also allow for collective gardens for a few cardholders to grow under one roof (or greenhouse or cupola). Legal grow, legal meds, legal money coming back.

However Tex hit one nail head on: you can't ask for federal tax protection for engaging in illegal activities. The catch? Non profit (and other) business licenses are issued by the state, not the feds. So while you should be able to claim non profit protection from state taxes, your declared, state-legal income may well be ruled as illicit gain, for which being taxed will be the least of your worries. Look up the federal forfeiture laws or read Burning Rainbow Farm to get up to speed.

Lastly, like any business, non profits and collectives too, you gotta plan it. A bad business plan with a lot of "I guess this will probably work" will likely fail, as will one based on solid research, but will have a better chance. Follow the money - how does it go out, how does it come in? Chart your grows, chart your sales, chart your expenses. The problem with planning this biz is the difficulty in getting reliable market research - the kind of sales data Tex and Sedate et al are giving away.

I'm all behind you bro', but stay alert. The world needs more Lerts.

 

[Yellowjacket]

Are those growers that transport Lbs to the dispensaries protected in some way? Last I knew Cali hadn't changed enough laws for that yet. Transportation of illegal narcotics is still on the books and even fighting it afterwards then ya gotta pass all the benchmarks (license, plant count, etc). Clearly a waste of your time and money. There are pitfalls everywhere. JMO

YJ

 

[jflo]

p3s...inho it sounds like you've thought this through quite a bit. Others in this thread have been pokig holes in your idea for lack of knowing you or what you've experienced. But, as far as I can see form what you're saying you are right on the cusp of the whole "legal/illegal" cliff that we all face in these contradictory and confusing times of state laws vs federal laws. I don't thin anyone has a clear easy answer to youir dilema. Cuz I dont think there IS A CLEAR EASY ANSWER TO IT. It's just a crazy time where you can never feel completely safe. None of us should! Even in Amsterdam they aren't "truely legal" they just are tolerant of marijuana. It sounds to me you want to somehow be the only grower in the U.S. that is "legal" and beyond prosecution...not gonna happen. Accept that what you are doing involves risk. You are a man engaging in outlaw activities and as such better be prepeared for any consequences. Part of growing up I think. No one is gonna save your ass...all any of us can do is our best to decide what level of risk we can live with and do what we cant to minimize our exposure to legal prosecution.

So what are you to do... if your going to grow take precautions...get creative. You obv know what youre doing and have a great tasty product if those pics were from your grow, so take some of the money you have made and install security cameras. Secondly buy a gas powered electric generator to offset you electric consumption. Hire a private investigator to research your surrounding neighbors etc. Get to know some local law enforcement types casually/socially. buy a police scanner. Read every law book yoiu can find on the subject. and after all that you'll probably know for yourself what the right course of action is for you regarding street or club selling.

just my opinion though...

also, food for thought... earning 2500/ lb consistently is WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY better than earning 4,000/lb and getting caught in the process. Even though its a tough pill to swallow seeing the clubs sell your 2500 pot for 9000 your freedom and peace of mind is worth more. Plus they earned that 9000 by the risk they take as well.

Good luck to you bro