Has anybody with a DO Meter run conclusive tests on aeration in RDWC?

[hypertyper]

I've read a bunch of opinions on DO over the last few days and I have not found a conclusive best practice based on anything other than bro science. Has anybody done an analysis that has the right tools?
1. Airstones
Are they the best method? Is there an advantage over flooming or waterfall?

2. Waterfalls
Can a waterfall provide optimal levels of DO? What are the parameters that matter? Volume of water pumped? Surface penetration?

3. Flooming
Do they provide more DO than airstones?

4. Venturi
Are they the answer? I've seen them used less around here.

Since Aqua Man is Jesus and he was using fairly small looking water streams into his buckets & res in a very successful looking grow, should I just assume that's the way to do it and stop worrying? I don't want to waste energy and resources on equipment that isn't providing a benefit. I'm running a waterfall and airstones currently but I have too many variables to isolate DO as factor in my grow. I'm on my first RDWC grow after one DWC grow and some soil runs. Now it's escalating and I love / hate it :D

Thanks for your time.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I know @Moe.Red is doing experiments in this area. Together with @Aqua Man I am sure they can assist.

I am fairly new to RDWC, on my third grow now and love it. I run air stones in all plant sites and in the res too. Fallponics also helps with o2 but as far as DO goes, these methods as I understand them don't add a lot of disolved o2 but serve more to stir and agitate the water, which does help a lot imo.

I went from soil to RDWC and am stunned at the difference in growth and vigor. I have never had such healthy plants.

 

[steamroller]

My limited understanding is we will never be able to install too much O2 with the common methods listed.
I am planning to run stones in every pot and res, overflows in every pot as opposed to the low drain point all systems use.
I will also use circulation pump in res to move the surface.
I will probably never officially test, but instead just strive to add more until I see no return.
Like SLG^^ just said Moe is the guy with the equipment and knowledge to do such.

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

I push the boundaries. Sometimes destructively, but always instructively. Follow along and laugh and learn with me if you wanna try to chase maximum plant potential! So it's no secret I have been working with Aqua man on some new ways to do things. This is what I am working on in my part of the...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[smokedareefer]

Interesting topic, i have always had a thing when people would say " ive got 3 air stones in each module, theres all kinds of DO".
my current culture system in the flower room was bought new in 2020 and from the factory only had a small cylindrical air stone for each module and none for the epi. (Doing a trial this grow and site #2 has a 4 inch stone and the other 3 still have just the original small ones.

Long and short, im very interested, actually bought a meter 3 years ago to debunk some of what your asking but i had a stroke the year after so just 2 weeks ago i passed the meter forward.

The one on the left has the bigger air stone. Lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Generally in DWC the DO will be 8mg/L or 8ppm with our temps. You can get a higher reading with the introduction of micro bubbles that can trick the sensor. But its not truely DO

all of the methods you listed are capable of providing this if they are sufficiently incorporated.

To reach a higher actual dissolved oxygen content you must change the gas makeup of the atmosphere.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've read a bunch of opinions on DO over the last few days and I have not found a conclusive best practice based on anything other than bro science. Has anybody done an analysis that has the right tools?
1. Airstones
Are they the best method? Is there an advantage over flooming or waterfall?

2. Waterfalls
Can a waterfall provide optimal levels of DO? What are the parameters that matter? Volume of water pumped? Surface penetration?

3. Flooming
Do they provide more DO than airstones?

4. Venturi
Are they the answer? I've seen them used less around here.

Since Aqua Man is Jesus and he was using fairly small looking water streams into his buckets & res in a very successful looking grow, should I just assume that's the way to do it and stop worrying? I don't want to waste energy and resources on equipment that isn't providing a benefit. I'm running a waterfall and airstones currently but I have too many variables to isolate DO as factor in my grow. I'm on my first RDWC grow after one DWC grow and some soil runs. Now it's escalating and I love / hate it :D

Thanks for your time.

I was using a piece of equipment i have been dragging my ass on to reach o2 levels beyond whats capable with traditional methods alone. No air stones… just a venturi that would have otherwise been insufficient.

i was going to do some bench testing now that @smokedareefer so kindly donated a quality DO meter last weekend but looking like i will do it this weekend instead. Had a another side project i had to finish up.

i have to apologize for how behind i am to those interested.

 

[Aqua Man]

I should add that 8ppm is plenty fine for a grow the MOST IMPORTANT thing is gas exchange and that happens by surface AREA agitation. The larger the surface area agitated the better the gas exchange.

Other keys factors are water column mixing, temperature surface tension.

 

[hypertyper]

Change the atmosphere I will not

I guess I can phrase it more accurately: What factors determine what the optimal solution is if you are trying not to waste resources?

I assume a recirculating pump is always required. Venturi and airstones are extra equipment.

Hence: What is the simplest use of waterfalls or flooming that keeps DO / O2 in the best possible concentration at the most relevant sites?

I’m loosely aware @Aqua Man is working on supercharging O2 with yet to be revealed methods. I’m intrigued but that’s not what I was digging for here.

 

[Aqua Man]

Change the atmosphere I will not

I guess I can phrase it more accurately: What factors determine what the optimal solution is if you are trying not to waste resources?

I assume a recirculating pump is always required. Venturi and airstones are extra equipment.

Hence: What is the simplest use of waterfalls or flooming that keeps DO / O2 in the best possible concentration at the most relevant sites?

I’m loosely aware @Aqua Man is working on supercharging O2 with yet to be revealed methods. I’m intrigued but that’s not what I was digging for here.

Imo the easiest way is airstones. It ensures new air is brought into the system and pushes co2 buildup out. There are a lot of complexities any of those will work if adequately thought out taking all factors into account.

airstones are the simplest

 

[inspectorgrow]

Hey chaps, first post so hopefully I get email updates on this but I have an Atlas DO meter along with my PH, EC and ORP (ORP for checking how dirty the water is basically so it gives me an idea of when to flush.

I found this thread as was looking for a new way to supplement my air stones with flooming or get rid and just use a Venturi...easier with just air stones and flooming?

 

[hypertyper]

Welcome!

As you might be able to see from this thread there seems to be experience from growing but not mich data from testing. It sounds like you’re in the position to actually run tests and gather data.

What’s your do level now?

Flooming is something you might be able to test without mich extra gear and see what happens to DO levels if you use it exclusively or in conjunction with airstones.

I would love to know what your setup is and what data you can gather.

 

[inspectorgrow]

Welcome!

As you might be able to see from this thread there seems to be experience from growing but not mich data from testing. It sounds like you’re in the position to actually run tests and gather data.

What’s your do level now?

Flooming is something you might be able to test without mich extra gear and see what happens to DO levels if you use it exclusively or in conjunction with airstones.

I would love to know what your setup is and what data you can gather.

I only got the Atlas DO circuit and probe this week so give me a day or two to get it setup.

Normally I have my temp/ph/ec/ORP on a manifold off the res but with the DO would it be betting having it mobile so I can test in various RDWC pots in the system as the res with flooming etc would only show the res DO if I put inline with the others in the manifold of the res?

Cheers

 

[hypertyper]

I have no idea to what extent DO will vary between spots in a single system. It probably depends on circulation, consumption etc. That would be one of the many things to test. Once you’ve run the experiments that you’re interested in I’d probably settle on a single spot if it were me.

 

[Diverge]

I also recently purchased some atlas scientific sensors when they had sale. I bought their hydroponics kit plus a DO sensor for the free aux slot. I'm waiting on a couple more things to arrive before I hook up the DO sensor. So far I just have pH/EC/temp going and love being able to access data from my phone. No more super long OCD spreadsheets for me

I also bought a JBJ Mini Arctica Chiller 1/15HP a month ago. I'm between grows right now, but hope to redo my system to incorporate everything soon as I as I stop being lazy. Then on to testing everything, and then start my 3rd grow.

I plan to place a sensor manifold at the reservoir recirculating pump, horizontally and parallel to the ground. I read that the DO sensor needs to be placed in flowing water, so I don't think you can just drop it into buckets and get accurate readings.

 

[inspectorgrow]

I have no idea to what extent DO will vary between spots in a single system. It probably depends on circulation, consumption etc. That would be one of the many things to test. Once you’ve run the experiments that you’re interested in I’d probably settle on a single spot if it were me.

I will more than likely end up leaving it in one place, I could time not having the res floomer pump on with readings?

At first I can do some measurements at different places though like at the end of my row of 3 x 2. System volume is semi decent at just over 410 litres.

 

[inspectorgrow]

I also recently purchased some atlas scientific sensors when they had sale. I bought their hydroponics kit plus a DO sensor for the free aux slot. I'm waiting on a couple more things to arrive before I hook up the DO sensor. So far I just have pH/EC/temp going and love being able to access data from my phone. No more super long OCD spreadsheets for me


I also bought a JBJ Mini Arctica Chiller 1/15HP a month ago. I'm between grows right now, but hope to redo my system to incorporate everything soon as I as I stop being lazy. Then on to testing everything, and then start my 3rd grow.

I plan to place a sensor manifold at the reservoir recirculating pump, horizontally and parallel to the ground. I read that the DO sensor needs to be placed in flowing water, so I don't think you can just drop it into buckets and get accurate readings.

Yeah, I’m doing the same regarding having a manifold also. You’re correct regarding flowing water but I’m not sure if you need the probe horizontal? Unless I misread you or I’m wrong?

 

[Diverge]

Yeah, I’m doing the same regarding having a manifold also. You’re correct regarding flowing water but I’m not sure if you need the probe horizontal? Unless I misread you or I’m wrong?

The orientation isn't mandatory for the probes, but they have a document with suggested best orientations. Basically you don't want stuff settling into the pocket the probe tees create: https://files.atlas-scientific.com/connecting-probes-into-a-pipe.pdf

 

[inspectorgrow]

The orientation isn't mandatory for the probes, but they have a document with suggested best orientations. Basically you don't want stuff settling into the pocket the probe tees create: https://files.atlas-scientific.com/connecting-probes-into-a-pipe.pdf

Oooo, never seen that, cheers! I didn't know there was a probe mount for the temp sensor, will be picking that up.

Any reason you're doing your horizontal?

 

[Diverge]

Oooo, never seen that, cheers! I didn't know there was a probe mount for the temp sensor, will be picking that up.

Any reason you're doing your horizontal?

Yeah, they make a stainless adapter that threads into a tee for the temp probe. I got that and another stainless 3/4 to 1/2 thread adapter from amazon, since I am using their 3/4" probe tees.

I'm using horizontal because it seems like best orientation to prevent stuff from collecting in the tee, and also prevent pooling of water. And in my system I feel it will be the most ideal for maintenance and overall neatness.