Has anyone switched from chemical nutrients to organic in a RDWC setup while plants are flowering?

[moguy]

I have a grow going and have two plants that are flowering (5 weeks) and I have been using fox farm (the big 3) nutrients all along and it has gone ok so far but in the last 2 weeks one of the plants has developed browning leaves (fan leaves mainly but some of the leaves on buds now too). I flushed and added new nutrients and added some ca ching to try to get some more phosphorus in but it hasnt really gotten much better. The PH always rose during veg and became stable after flowering started until this week when it keeps dropping no matter what i do (ie i get it to 5.7 and it will shoot up to 6.5 by morning). I have been running the nutrients at around 500 and have been upping it to about 700 to 750 just following the feeding chart (i usually only use about 75%). Anyway, i was pondering switching over to organic nutrients at this point as i am now doing a flush with RO water. I have also been adding calmag and hydroguard all along. Temp and humidity have been about 75 deg and 45 rh. I was wondering if it is wise to switch now or just ride it out. I was thinking of using compost teas now instead of the ff nutrients. I appreciate your feedback on this as i am pretty new to growing. I will add some pics of the problem plant here when i get them from my phone.

 

[Dirtbag]

What do you mean exactly when you say you're doing a flush with RO water in week 5 flower RDWC?
That should never be a thing that happens.

My guess is the FF trio was too high in P and locked out your Ca and then started cascade effect locking other things up. More than likely, using too much P was the problem to begin with.

But to answer the question, I think it's a terrible idea to try and use organics in RDWC.

 

[moguy]

What do you mean exactly when you say you're doing a flush with RO water in week 5 flower RDWC?
That should never be a thing that happens.

My guess is the FF trio was too high in P and locked out your Ca and then started cascade effect locking other things up. More than likely, using too much P was the problem to begin with.

But to answer the question, I think it's a terrible idea to try and use organics in RDWC.

I have just been following the ff feeding schedule and it calls for a flush every couple of weeks. Is it the flush or the RO water that you don't like (or both). And thanks for your reply. As far as adding the nutrients, i have never been at 100 percent of the recommendations normally 50 percent to 75 percent (lately). I look at the feeding charts and it says my ppms should be over 1500 but mine has always been much lower (500 to 750) and i know they push more is better but even the one time i tried full amounts it has never approached their ppm numbers.

 

[Dirtbag]

View attachment 971646


I have just been following the ff feeding schedule and it calls for a flush every couple of weeks. Is it the flush or the RO water that you don't like (or both). And thanks for your reply. As far as adding the nutrients, i have never been at 100 percent of the recommendations normally 50 percent to 75 percent (lately). I look at the feeding charts and it says my ppms should be over 1500 but mine has always been much lower (500 to 750) and i know they push more is better but even the one time i tried full amounts it has never approached their ppm numbers.

Plants in hydroponics, especially DWC should never have their roots exposed to pure RO. Plants roots take up nutrie ts and water via osmotic pressure, and because RO has Zero minerals in it, it will actually dessicate the plants causing water and free nutrients to be drawn OUT of the plants which makes the leaves get dry and crispy.

And the problem with FF trio IMHo isnt the ppm, it's the NPK. It has way too much P in it compared to N and K, especially the tiger bloom. Ideally you want something like 2-1-2 or 3-1-2 for veg and bloom, and if anything you can spike pk during stretch on top of your base nutes, but the K value should still be higher than the p value.

The only Instance where you should have P higher than K is if you are growing in soil with a clay content. Not in hydro or soiless.

 

[TheBioMaster]

Dirt Bag is dead on the money here...... That's sound advice.

Organics in RDWC will lead to all sorts of issues including build up of organic matter on the inside of your pipes......even with weekly change outs. This leads to PH drops from runaway bacteria colonies.

That said, you can run organics in RDWC, but you have to mod your system to handle the organic inputs. For one you need a bio filter in place, and starting the system must be done weeks before any plants are added to balance the system out. Its a tricky act without the proper gear and prep work.

 

[Aqua Man]

Organics in DWC equals dead plants if you don't know your shit.

Add to what @Dirtbag said the huge ph swings.

What do the roots look like? I would be concerned about that right now.

What is your source water and everything you are adding to it?

What are you using for ph control?

How often are you changing the water?

 

[BigV]

Organics in DWC equals dead plants if you don't know your shit.

Add to what @Dirtbag said the huge ph swings.

What do the roots look like? I would be concerned about that right now.

What is your source water and everything you are adding to it?

What are you using for ph control?

How often are you changing the water?

What This says... The closest most will go is Pure Blend Pro... I have never had a successful organic Dro Grow except in CoCo...

 

[cemchris]

View attachment 971646


I have just been following the ff feeding schedule and it calls for a flush every couple of weeks. Is it the flush or the RO water that you don't like (or both). And thanks for your reply. As far as adding the nutrients, i have never been at 100 percent of the recommendations normally 50 percent to 75 percent (lately). I look at the feeding charts and it says my ppms should be over 1500 but mine has always been much lower (500 to 750) and i know they push more is better but even the one time i tried full amounts it has never approached their ppm numbers.

That is a Ca lockout/def. Exactly like @Dirtbag said. Spot on advice he gave ya.

 

[moguy]

Organics in DWC equals dead plants if you don't know your shit.

Add to what @Dirtbag said the huge ph swings.

What do the roots look like? I would be concerned about that right now.

What is your source water and everything you are adding to it?

What are you using for ph control?

How often are you changing the water?

I have been using ro water with nutrients added. I use ph up and ph down for adjustments. I use ff big 3 according g to their feeding g schedule at about 75 percent now. I add calmag 1/2 tsp per gallon.. I add hydroguard 1/2 tsp per gallon.

I change out the water once a week.

I have not looked at the roots for a few weeks now since the plant is so big and there are 2 sets of netting in the plant. The plant is in a 5 gal bucket. I have an airstone in the bucket and an bubble up to a drip ring. The water does not smell bad or anything.

All seemed ok until the flowering got heavy and then the very top fan leaves started getting brown spots and the leaves eventually brown a lot and curl and die. The buds seem ok so far.

This is week 5 of flowering but it was from a clone and had 2 full months of veg.

That is a Ca lockout/def. Exactly like @Dirtbag said. Spot on advice he gave ya.

So cut back on the ff nutrients some to reduce phosphorus annd use calmag full dose?

 

[Dirtbag]

I dont really like calmag as a calcium source, calcium carbonate or Ag gypsum, or calcium silicate, even just Cal nitrate would be better.

But I'd cut out the tiger bloom at the very least. Just feed what you fed them in veg.

If going with calmag, I'd use 3 ml/gallon depending on what calmag you use, then bring it up to 1-1.2 ec or 500-600ppm with a base nutrient that has a ratio of around 2-1-2, or 2-2-3 for this stage
But to be real they will never look better. The damage has been done now. By fixing it now though hopefully you can ripen them

 

[Aqua Man]

I have been using ro water with nutrients added. I use ph up and ph down for adjustments. I use ff big 3 according g to their feeding g schedule at about 75 percent now. I add calmag 1/2 tsp per gallon.. I add hydroguard 1/2 tsp per gallon.

I change out the water once a week.

I have not looked at the roots for a few weeks now since the plant is so big and there are 2 sets of netting in the plant. The plant is in a 5 gal bucket. I have an airstone in the bucket and an bubble up to a drip ring. The water does not smell bad or anything.

All seemed ok until the flowering got heavy and then the very top fan leaves started getting brown spots and the leaves eventually brown a lot and curl and die. The buds seem ok so far.

This is week 5 of flowering but it was from a clone and had 2 full months of veg.

So cut back on the ff nutrients some to reduce phosphorus annd use calmag full dose?

You definitely have deficiency issues but I don't feel its a lack of issue I think it's as @Dirtbag said a lockout issue. And the reason is nutrient imbalance again as he said.

The cause im betting is your water changes and add backs.

I'll give you a basic guideline which should help if your root system is still ok.

600ppm nutrient solution. Do a full res change and start with this.

Daily top ups you need to write down. You have about 3.5 gal (maybe less by the time you calculate roots) so everytime you add back 3.5; gal you change the water and make a fresh res. This will keep your nutrients in balance enough to prevent a lockout caused by such. And a big reason why ppl go RDWC

Take daily ppm readings before add backs if the ppm rises past 700-800 add back plain RO water that day.

 

[Mospeada]

Best tip for DWC. Underfeed. You will see infinitely better results underfeeding for 75% of the grow. The plant below was given a base solution at 350ppm.

RO water
Micro 1ml/L (drop to 0.5ml/L in flower)
Bloom 1 ml/L
supplemented fulvic, kelp, silica and amino acids.

I never go above 350ppm for the first 8 weeks, never.

 

[Mospeada]

When you do get your feed right the biggest issue you will run into is neglect. The grow gets that ridiculously easy, it makes it easy to forget about.

But the great thing about dwc is the instant fixes and how fast they take effect. Plants have to be healthy to start with though. They won't bounce back if they're already shit.

 

[Aqua Man]

Best tip for DWC. Underfeed. You will see infinitely better results underfeeding for 75% of the grow. The plant below was given a base solution at 350ppm.

RO water
Micro 1ml/L (drop to 0.5ml/L in flower)
Bloom 1 ml/L
supplemented fulvic, kelp, silica and amino acids.

I never go above 350ppm for the first 8 weeks, never.

Yeah it depends on lot of factors. But I agree less is more. 600 is a good number of you have your environment dialed in.

If we are throwing pics around this is 2 weeks of growth. They aren't happy in that first pic. I just hacked a shot ton of foliage off em

 

[ThEm4DSc13_TiSt]

Stick with the nutes u been using just bck off on them, the recommended dosage on just about every nite line I've seen is way to high to just jump into full steam ahead, u gotta ease them into it unless they are telling you otherwise. Imo that looks like a combo pH, and possibly overwatering/root issue prob due to crazy pH swing. Similar shit happened to a couple I have in soil, I mistook it for a deficiency cu I was waaaay high and overthiught the shit. But the ones it affected are still bouncing back, it's not a quick fix esp in soil, thankfully ur in dwc and possibly can get it tamed a little easier. Good luck man! Oh and if you just start adding nutes to the nuts regime you are already using, not being familiar with them, esp organic/synthetic combos, so.etimes they don't react too well. I've seen it happen first hand a pH drop from 6.7-6.9 instantly dropped to a 3.3 ish you gotta be careful for that type of shit, kinda like the old. Carpenter saying measure twice cut once, well DNT be afraid to check that shit 100times. I'llI check mine constantly, once u see it happen it kinda becomes an obsession

 

[ThEm4DSc13_TiSt]

What light are u using btw? Nice set up man!

 

[Aqua Man]

What light are u using btw? Nice set up man!

Not sure if your referring to me. If so it's an HLG 600.

 

[ThEm4DSc13_TiSt]

Not sure if your referring to me. If so it's an HLG 600.

Lol yeah I was talking to u, nice man! I'm running hlg as well, killer products.. wrking on this little rig rn, just waiting for my other driver to come in the mail before I throw this b* in the 2x4 auto tent. This was just a mock up to check ppfd. Today I'm doing the exact opposite of what's in the pic, sandwiching the 2 qb288 with a 96elite on each end. Inventronics EUC-320S490DT for the 2 96 elite, and I'm still on the fence weather to use mw150-54b on each qb288 or run the mw240c 2100a and run in series, or say f it and run the 320hc2800a on the 2qb and melt the walls off the 2x4 anyways any feedback is welcome.ive been looking for a place to post a thread for advice. But I ended up here lol ttyl man keep on Killin it..

 

[Aqua Man]

Lol yeah I was talking to u, nice man! I'm running hlg as well, killer products.. wrking on this little rig rn, just waiting for my other driver to come in the mail before I throw this b* in the 2x4 auto tent. This was just a mock up to check ppfd. Today I'm doing the exact opposite of what's in the pic, sandwiching the 2 qb288 with a 96elite on each end. Inventronics EUC-320S490DT for the 2 96 elite, and I'm still on the fence weather to use mw150-54b on each qb288 or run the mw240c 2100a and run in series, or say f it and run the 320hc2800a on the 2qb and melt the walls off the 2x4 anyways any feedback is welcome.ive been looking for a place to post a thread for advice. But I ended up here lol ttyl man keep on Killin it..

Nice I think you will like the lights. The only thing I would change and still might is to cut the heatsink in 2 and get better coverage on my light

 

[ThEm4DSc13_TiSt]

Yeah that's why I ordered all single board heatsinks, I ha e 1 double I use for veg w 2x 5000k on it and it works good but I've still sgought the same shit ur saying. But I have an 8'x14' with 12+qb and 3-4 mw 48o pushing em. So etimes later in flower I turn on the last 4 boards and 4th mw480. But I also have a black r spec 550 HLG sent me from their R&D LAB to play with. Hlg makes great products man u really can't go wrong. I bought a bunch of b.s. LEDs before I smartened up and got something that would actually produce the quality I was looking for while keeping it efficient. Meanwhile I have a pile of b.s. amazon leds that will never leave their boxes, I'm thinking about doing a giveaway or something to make some damn room so I can get more shit I prob dont need I've sold 6 to give u an idea how easy it is to be a dumass while thinking I was doing the right thing and "saving money" DONT BE A DUMASS LIKE ME! BUY HLG!!!