Hello Capulator is this enough N for herb ?

[budfarmer]

To Capulator or any of our other nutrient experts, I had no luck with Jacks for some reason so I'm trying Plant Prod 7-11-27 my plants look like they might be able to use a little more N so what do you think is there enough N in this mix for veg https://msds.plantprod.com/document/10590/en/Label . It looks to me like this Plant Prod mix is very close to Jacks if not basically the same thing. Also to Cap or anybody with a good understanding of this, why do people bleach roots ? I have been through hell trying to get healthy plants and it seems like no matter what I do I end up with what looks like a nutrient deficiencies especially calcium so now I'm thinking if I am supplying all the nutes required and end up with nute deficiency is the problem in the root system ? are the roots affected by a disease or bad bacteria which fucks up nutrient uptake ? So why not bleach the roots ? I'm in rockwool what if on flush day which is every 5th day I add chlorox bleach to kill off any possible problem in the root zone or would this kill off the problem and the plants as well ? I finally got pissed off and put 16 clones that were barely alive in beer cups of #4 Sunshine mix along with some ground up drywall for gypsum ( for extra calcium ) a handful of compost from the hydro store and fed miracle grow outside in the sunshine, they did nothing for a while then grew into beautiful healthy plants ! So WTF is up with

 

[caveman4.20]

Pics?

 

[budfarmer]

Hi Caveman I have pic's from last week or so I hope they come through..... OOP's ! wrong that was suspected N deficiency ! the other pic's are my regular curse. I started using Plant Prod 7-11-27 about a week ago with almost zero noticeable difference until today today my plants are growing and greening up real nice, problem, I also started including a very small amount of Calcium Chloride in my nute mix along with Potasium Silica also use this for foliar spray lately so just exactly why I'm seeing some improvement I don't know ?

 

[Seamaiden]

That looks like a Ca- to me. You're seeing the improvement likely because you've hit a better balance of nutrients in your fert mix. Plants must have a basic set of tools to use the building blocks we give them and those building blocks are all based on mineral interactions. So for example, you may be giving plenty of N, but if you're short on Mg then the plant can't use it. Same issue with pH, it can be there, but if pH is out of parameters that allow uptake and utilization, then it's the same as being deficient.

Ca- takes a while to develop, you've gotta start giving them more Ca from the beginning, IMO.

 

[budfarmer]

It does seem like ca deficiency and the fact of the matter is I have no idea what caused all this grief , and I thought bugs were a head ache ! I really think the fertilizer wholesaler I have bought Jacks from bought an entire skid of of a bad batch, maybe one of the silo's of fert plugged up or ran out before the batch was finished. I am seeing a turn around greening up some health and vigor returning but I don't know why because as a last ditch effort I changed up a few things. I started foliar feeding CaCl. along with potassium silica and a bit of calcium nitrate I also switched to Plant Prod 7-11-27 which appears to be very much like Jacks Pro, seems to dissolve totally and easily but has differences in miro/macro.

 

[ssteely71]

I'm guessing lockout from overwatering. Classic sypmtoms. Let those pots get dry.
Best of luck.

 

[budfarmer]

No pots I'm in rockwool, I'm really thinking root problems some sort of root disease so I'm going to have to do some reading.

 

[wobbly goblin]

silly question for ya budfarmer.....
were you using jack's hydro straight? or with cal nit?

 

[budfarmer]

I used Jack's with Cal nit tried various ppm levels but I don't know and nobody seems to know for sure what ppm levels are your target levels without doing tissue samples to see where you are at. It has been recommended that I keep the Ratio of Jack's - cal nit at 1 - .67 which happens to be exactly the same as Plant Prod 7-11-27 so that is what I do now while raising and lowering ppm by adding more or less water.

 

[jimmy the hat]

So Im a jacks user....sorry your having such shit luck with it.... im in coco though so I add the mag sulfate with it....As far as the bleach goes I believe it is used to kill pathogenic fungal spores.....cap or others would know better..... those leaves look a little like nute burn.....although I am not the greatest at identifying deficiencies....what ec/ppm? and what is your ph? Im leaning toward too high of an ec here.....with the jacks on most all of my strains I rarely go more than 1.2

 

[budfarmer]

Hey Jimmy, I have switched to Plant Prod 7-11-27 + cal nit the mixing directions are identical to Jacks same ratio as far as I can tell the only noticeable difference I can see is in the micro macro elements but who knows this mix of micro's might work better. I'm starting to think there is something going on in the root zone that is causing deficiencies because the food is there it's just not being taken up into the plant. I normally lately use 650 ppm but I have some juvies ready to cook off so I'm going to try 700 ppm's, Also I normally run PH 6.2 or so.

 

[jimmy the hat]

Hey Jimmy, I have switched to Plant Prod 7-11-27 + cal nit the mixing directions are identical to Jacks same ratio as far as I can tell the only noticeable difference I can see is in the micro macro elements but who knows this mix of micro's might work better. I'm starting to think there is something going on in the root zone that is causing deficiencies because the food is there it's just not being taken up into the plant. I normally lately use 650 ppm but I have some juvies ready to cook off so I'm going to try 700 ppm's, Also I normally run PH 6.2 or so.

Im not a hydro guy but I think your ph should be more around 5.7-5.8....( @Seamaiden touched on ph problems and nutrient uptake in her response)....also 650-700 ppm might be a tad high.....did you work up to those numbers? Your nute mix is pretty balanced...do your roots look yellow/brown? Start with a lower ph and lower ec....and increase as the plant tells you.... If you are convinced it is a root zone issue perhaps H2O2?

 

[wobbly goblin]

Im not a hydro guy but I think your ph should be more around 5.7-5.8....( @Seamaiden touched on ph problems and nutrient uptake in her response)....also 650-700 ppm might be a tad high.....did you work up to those numbers? Your nute mix is pretty balanced...do your roots look yellow/brown? Start with a lower ph and lower ec....and increase as the plant tells you.... If you are convinced it is a root zone issue perhaps H2O2?

you are right on the money jimmy
ph of 6.2 in rockwool is locking out the zinc, k and the p
rockwool is pure hydro
drop your ph budfarmer

fwiw

 

[budfarmer]

No 5.8 Ph is O.K. for some people and some strains but not all ! I am not a nute guy right now I don't have time to earn a degree in plant science right now but I have done some plant breeding and I can tell you Phenotypes from the same breeding stock will have a wide range of ideal PH. I can also say that if you continue to select Phenotypes that love a low PH you will get low PH loving plants.

 

[wobbly goblin]

No 5.8 Ph is O.K. for some people and some strains but not all ! I am not a nute guy right now I don't have time to earn a degree in plant science right now but I have done some plant breeding and I can tell you Phenotypes from the same breeding stock will have a wide range of ideal PH. I can also say that if you continue to select Phenotypes that love a low PH you will get low PH loving plants.

ph is not about "some people" or "some strains"
it's about the cation exchange capability of the medium you grow in
rockwool has a very low cec so it needs a low ph...5.3-5.9
6.2 is waaay out of rockwools range

fwiw

 

[FiveAM]

Some people are on the right track, they just need to know which lane is correct.

Maybe soil is better for you?

I would listen to Seamaiden and follow her "likes", you can't go wrong.

 

[north knect]

ya i had the same issue runnin ph at 6.4 for a week..nube mistake on my part usin my meter wrong lol..went down to 5.7ish and after a flush showed big improvments in a few days