Hello. First grow. Might as well start with the best.

[twist1]

Hello. I hope this finds you well. I have been reading and lurking this area of the forum daily after first hearing of the UnderCurrent, some six months ago. You all have a cool 'family' here, with a lot of experience and knowledge. I will be attempting my first grow, so I figure to start it off right from the beginning:D
Being both a novice to growing and UC, I will be looking for// begging for any and all assistance with this project that you will give me. Just some warning, I always bite off more than I can chew.... but somehow, I manage to get it all down. I'm not saying that arrogantly, I am just a determined person.
Having said that, I would like to go with the UCE18XXL13. I know, very ambitious. I don't mind spending the time with these ladies. We recently sold our restaurant and don't want to be in any kind of 'rat race' right now. Mental burnout is an understatement. LOL!! Need some quiet ME time.

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts and/or questions:
~250 gallon
~1 Water Chiller: 1HP
~Culture Current recommends 24 X 600 vertical, w/ 40" centers.. Can I go brighter, or not with those centers?
~I would prefer to get a co2 generator. While I have never done this before, I just imagine that the tanks are a BIG waste of cash in the long run. I'd rather buy it right from the start..... hate buying shit two and three times:)
~Instruments? Which one/s do you prefer?
~As for as AC..... I am just not sure what to do. About how many ton or BTU would I need for in there?
I am very leery (with due reason) of having anything added here from contractors. Plus, I will be in the basement so I can't tie into the house AC because (that is in the attic). Would you suggest a pre-charged split until that I can install? Or those interior wall units? I imagine that the pre charged??
~Nutes. I've read so many things from you regarding nutes that my head has spun multiple times. I was thinking of going with their line up (Cultured Solutions) initially. This seems like a simpler road, plus more support from a central location until I can dial the system/s in on my own. Your thoughts?
~De-Humidifier. I was thinking of 130 pint dri-ease (2800i model)
~Humidifier. Not quite sure yet. lol Damn, there is so much research done and to do...
~Strains. What are your thoughts for multiple strains (2 or 3)? If so, how about these: blue dream, white nightmare & dream n sour? I would like to do this for a few reasons. Variety of smoke for myself. And to see which strain does the best for me, potency, flavor, yield, etc... If this is too much to take on with multiple strains--- let me know.

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts and help. I'm sure gonna need it.

 

[paulycali]

Welcome to the farm twist1 :)

 

[Amber]

Welcome thats a hell of list of questions. Gonna need to know what size the space is your working with?

 

[twist1]

TY.

Yeah, I'd figure I'd come in with a bang. LOL!

OK, so I miscalculated the room. Well, at least the usable space of it. Usable space is 175" X 216". Ceiling height of 77".
So, with that in mind.... I have to change the layout. Looks like either the UCDB16XXL13, which suggests a floor space of 133 X 168.
OR, UCDB24XXL13, which suggests a floor space of 133 X 252. Now if I go that way, I would have to remove one row to make it a 20 site system and the measurements should be about 133 X 216?

 

[soserthc1]

Welcome to the farm and hey go big or don't go at all is a good philosophy be surprised how many start small and end up with numerous amount of wasted $ - save your self that problem and stating big is the way to go imho......

best of luck

 

[Capfan]

Hello. I hope this finds you well. I have been reading and lurking this area of the forum daily after first hearing of the UnderCurrent, some six months ago. You all have a cool 'family' here, with a lot of experience and knowledge. I will be attempting my first grow, so I figure to start it off right from the beginning:D
Being both a novice to growing and UC, I will be looking for// begging for any and all assistance with this project that you will give me. Just some warning, I always bite off more than I can chew.... but somehow, I manage to get it all down. I'm not saying that arrogantly, I am just a determined person.
Having said that, I would like to go with the UCE18XXL13. I know, very ambitious. I don't mind spending the time with these ladies. We recently sold our restaurant and don't want to be in any kind of 'rat race' right now. Mental burnout is an understatement. LOL!! Need some quiet ME time.

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts and/or questions:
~250 gallon
~1 Water Chiller: 1HP
~Culture Current recommends 24 X 600 vertical, w/ 40" centers.. Can I go brighter, or not with those centers?
~I would prefer to get a co2 generator. While I have never done this before, I just imagine that the tanks are a BIG waste of cash in the long run. I'd rather buy it right from the start..... hate buying shit two and three times:)
~Instruments? Which one/s do you prefer?
~As for as AC..... I am just not sure what to do. About how many ton or BTU would I need for in there?
I am very leery (with due reason) of having anything added here from contractors. Plus, I will be in the basement so I can't tie into the house AC because (that is in the attic). Would you suggest a pre-charged split until that I can install? Or those interior wall units? I imagine that the pre charged??
~Nutes. I've read so many things from you regarding nutes that my head has spun multiple times. I was thinking of going with their line up (Cultured Solutions) initially. This seems like a simpler road, plus more support from a central location until I can dial the system/s in on my own. Your thoughts?
~De-Humidifier. I was thinking of 130 pint dri-ease (2800i model)
~Humidifier. Not quite sure yet. lol Damn, there is so much research done and to do...
~Strains. What are your thoughts for multiple strains (2 or 3)? If so, how about these: blue dream, white nightmare & dream n sour? I would like to do this for a few reasons. Variety of smoke for myself. And to see which strain does the best for me, potency, flavor, yield, etc... If this is too much to take on with multiple strains--- let me know.

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts and help. I'm sure gonna need it.

Had a 20b tank last me about 3 days in my room, switched to a generator, last 2 weeks..

5k BTU per uncooled 1,000 watt

If you cant add air handler/Condenser, Then look into mini splits

Ive Read nothing but great results from CS, i use House and Garden Aqua Flakes, with EWC tea...

Dehumidifer - i was running about 3 of the 70 pint ones ( very non efficient ) because i over looked this, i ordered a Santa Fe classic.

Humidifier? Mainlandmart.com, get the 16 Jet one, (200$ ) , i bought the 5 jet one (97.50) and it didnt touch my humidity.

--------------------

 

[Capulator]

Get ready for a lot of ME time!!!

You may want to start a new thread in the UC subsection. There your thread will get more relevant views I think.

Welcome to the fam. :)

 

[Camdawg]

Welcome to the farm

 

[twist1]

Get ready for a lot of ME time!!!

Welcome to the fam. :)

Lot of ME time--- :cool:

I thought I put it there?? I think a Mod may have moved it??

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[ttystikk]

TY.

Yeah, I'd figure I'd come in with a bang. LOL!

OK, so I miscalculated the room. Well, at least the usable space of it. Usable space is 175" X 216". Ceiling height of 77".
So, with that in mind.... I have to change the layout. Looks like either the UCDB16XXL13, which suggests a floor space of 133 X 168.
OR, UCDB24XXL13, which suggests a floor space of 133 X 252. Now if I go that way, I would have to remove one row to make it a 20 site system and the measurements should be about 133 X 216?

Boy, would I do your HVAC differently. As it is, your AC, chiller, dehuey and humidifier are all going to get in a fight and you're electric bill will get badly beaten up. There is another way, which is to size up your chiller Alf use it as the core of your entire HVAC plant:

Unit size is based on the size of the room. This is one great reason to run two bloom rooms on a flip schedule, so your cooling plant is utilized around the clock instead of just half time.

Cool your room with water cooled air handling units, the water for which is cooled by your chiller. Cool your RDWC with the same water. The air handling unit will both cool the air and manage humidity. You won't need to actively manage temps in your RDWC, since the water temp you'll run in your chiller system will be about the same temperature, the two will just run together. This will go a long way towards making your whole grow operation more temperature stable, as well.

WHY?! Why go to the trouble of installing a water chilling system? It will cut your power requirements for HVAC by over half. Everyone above just told you to buy an AC system and then buy separate humidity control, which will by definition fight with each other, COSTING YOU MONEY. My suggestion is more reliable, more efficient and more stable. It's not even more expensive...

 

[ttystikk]

Also, I built my own RDWC system. Actually, I've built many. I started with a bunch of 1" bulkhead fittings and a step bit for my drill. I found 4 gallon square pails for a SOG RDWC setup I built, then 5 gallon buckets for SCRoG, and now 27 gallon tubs for trees. I used 1" tubing for everything, kept all my old pieces, and now when reconfiguring systems I rarely even have to cut anything to fit! To service big 27 gallon tubs, I've found 1" diameter water lines to be entirely adequate, I just used two intakes and two seasons per tub. I even offset them to improve swirl effects inside the tub to improve conditions for the roots and eliminate any spots that might stagnate.

The cost to build my own hydro system was a small fraction of what the big boys charge, it's every bit as reliable, and since I use flexible house and bulkhead fittings it's far more flexible and reconfigurable, especially when upgrading on the fly and time is an issue.

 

[twist1]

~ttystikk
Initially, I wanted to do two rooms, and would still prefer it. But it just seemed like the cost was adding and adding and adding. Two pumps, two reservoirs, two temp gauges, etc....... two of everything!!! So that is what discouraged me and led me to lean towards one room.

Everything you mention regarding a DIY sounds great, but where do I start? LOL One of the main reasons I like the CC route is the support system, and it is plug and play. Not to mention that it's a proven system. I'm not saying that your system isn't just as/ or better than their's. But you built yours off of probably a lot of experience. And to be frank with my lack of experience, I'm a bit intimidated in attempting to build my own.

I've read a little bit about water cooled rooms. But not much. I have been researching all of this for a long while, changing my thoughts and plans over and over again (until I started to read about the undercurrent). Anyway, long story short---- I am damn anxious to build the room and grow something. Now, you're gonna make me research more. LOL :)

Do you have treads or posts detailing what you are saying? 1" tubing? You don't have problems with the roots clogging?

What are your thoughts regarding different strains in the same system?

Also, could I use the same system and just put a wall up to divide the room into two rooms?

 

[Papa]

Get ready for a lot of ME time!!!

You may want to start a new thread in the UC subsection. There your thread will get more relevant views I think.

Welcome to the fam. :)

yeah Cap, i'm moved it over here from the UC forum because there are obviously a lot of environment issues to work out with the room before getting into the specifics of the dwc system (ie, amount of energy he has to work with, how he's going to divide that between lighting, a/c, etc, how he's going to resolve the a/c question . . . ). it's no use talking about the size of top-off reservoir he needs to order before he gets a firm grasp on the bigger questions.

twist,
i'm a fan of the uc system, but understand that success in using it isn't as easy as "plug and play". it must be run properly, but also the environment it's used within must be adequate for growing. you will need to control lighting, air temperature, water temperature, humidity, CO2. providing this growing environment will be more expensive than the system and will define the scale of system you will be able to support.

so, how much amperage do you have available? do you have both 120v and 220v available?
regarding CO2, it depends a lot on how sealed your room is. i have a 100 sq ft room that is so well sealed that a 15 lb bottle of CO2 keeps the room at 1,500 ppm for 10 weeks. i once put a CO2 generator with a pilot light in the room and the pilot light kept the room at 7,500 ppm! and yes, if the room isn't sealed well you will burn through a bottle in no time.
i use 6,000 btu/bare 1,000w lamp. what you should use for calculating will depend upon what part of the country you're in and the insulation of your room. if my room were under a big shade tree i'm sure 5,000 btu/lamp would be fine.

 

[twist1]

Thanks for the clarification for the relocation Papa.

I am an anal person, and plan to be very hands on. I understand what are you saying regarding the plug and play. I just meant that their system doesn't require any guessing (for engineering or constructing). And while I am prepared for failure....... I strive for perfection.
I will do what it takes to make this happen. I will build the room. I am pretty handy, my father was a master carpenter. It will be in the basement of a colder climate. So even in the summer months, being underground will help. There's no heat down there--- it's pretty chilly right now. So that will help as well during the winter.
I'd "like" to keep the build under $20,000. If I need to up it, I will.... but that's the goal. Over the years, I've become a believer of buying better first----- otherwise, you always pay two and three times. Especially found that out building a rock climbing Jeep. Hey, ya know what Jeep stands for?? Just Empty Every Pocket:bawling: So I am prepared to buy the better instruments and equipment FIRST:)
I know this stuff won't grow it for me, but it will aid in a better and more reliable system.

When you say how sealed the room is.... if I line the studs with plastic prior to sheetrock, will that be sufficient? I will be doing the greenboard (mold resistant drywall). Do you think I should insulate the two interior walls as well?

The floor is painted cement, and luckily there is a drain on the floor. Saweeeeet!

It is a recently updated 200amp service. There isn't that much being used. Maybe tops, 110 at a surge. I will have to wire it myself, so 120 or 220-- doesn't really matter. It's just swapping out the breaker/s. Oil baseboard heat. So, for at least the next 6 month, I'm 'chill' with the electric:)

 

[Papa]

'sounds good twist. if you've built a rock-climbing jeep i know you don't mind getting your hands dirty and i bet you're good at trouble shooting. it's a big plus to know your way around electrical and plumbing.

with a couple of coats of latex paint on the walls they will be sealed up well. leaks normally occur at other places . . . at the door, at the baseboard, at any penetrations through the wall. pay extra attention to all of them and you should be good (and this is an area where being anal can actually help). lay two beads of construction adhesive or caulk between your floor and your bottom plate. caulk is your friend.

i think your budget is reasonable. it'll allow for the good equipment.

and regarding your question about running different strains at the same time, the best advice is to start with one strain and run it several times to allow yourself the time to dial in your room and your skills. keep the variables to a minimum.

 

[Capulator]

Bro drain in the floor you couldn't ask for anything better.

 

[twist1]

Would it be possible to do two rooms off of one system? Just run the pipes through the wall? Obviously I'd have to seal the opening good to stop light penetration.

Also, if this is possible... would it be possible to split the co2 gen as well? I imagine that I could put a damper between the two rooms or something like that. Maybe just put the gen on the outside of the room and pipe it into the two rooms via the damper?

 

[Papa]

kiss.

 

[twist1]

No doubt. Just trying to $ave $ome ca$h.

 

[Papa]

twist, 'just went over your questions again. i'll try to answer some that haven't been touched upon.

on 40" centers you shouldn't try more than 600w. a 1,000w lamp needs about 50".

i find the cheapest/easiest reservoirs to use are recycled 55 gallon plastic food drums. there's a source that provides free shipping on these. sometimes they can be sourced locally for less.
although they've already been hit with a pressure washer, i clean them out with H2O2 to be sure nothing alive is in them before my use.

instruments: i love the bluelab guardian. you'll also make use of a pen-type combo meter. i have a bunch of hannas that i don't like.

once you have your lamp wattage figured, you'll be able to calculate your a/c needs. ttystikk raises a very good point with the water chiller solution . . . . which i have no experience with yet, but it's on my list of things to learn more about . . . . so you might look into it. his perspective of the battle between a/c and humidifiers is spot on. basically, your a/c units are bigass dehumidifiers, at the beginning of a grow you want your humidity to be quite high for best results. it's not easy to achieve when you are also running that bigass dehumidifier (a/c) at the same time in order to cool the space from all the lamps you're running. something that you have going for you here is your drain in the floor . . . because one way to go is with centrifical humidifiers, and they end up putting a bunch of water on the floor around them which your drain will help with. (it would be nice if that drain had a p-trap on it to keep your room sealed, but that might be asking for too much). anyway, the experts at water cooling are hydroinnovations.com

if you go with the larger a/c, humidifier, dehumidifier route i agree with capfan's recommendations.

whether you use bottles or a gen, they are both low cost . . . and you can start with neither and be fine . . . so don't sweat about the CO2 solution. it's the easiest thing to add or change later.

learn to love doing research . . . it will help you to steer clear of dumbass mistakes and taking bad advice. lol

especially if you're building in the basement of your house, think about safety, re: fire. sheathing your studs with 3/4" CDX and then gypsum (or if you're really anal, 2 layers of gypsum) provides a more fire save wall. the plywood is also great because it will allow you to screw into it where ever you wish . . . . which comes in very handy. putting a couple of layers of drywall on instead of one is very cheap and if you should ever start a fire in your room it will greatly aid in containing it to your sealed room.

although i too am a fan of going big . . . . . the reality of the situation is that we do not have limitless budgets. building a rock-climbing jeep is one thing, attempting to build a formula one car your first time out may not be such a good idea. i would suggest one room first, even if it's 1/2 your space. i would suggest not maxing out your available amps, i would suggest oversizing your cooling system (or undersizing your heat load) so that you have wiggle room that you may need. also, although your goal should be to kill it on your first round, don't bet the house on it. unforeseen problems sometimes pop up.

what do you have in mind for your veg space? do you have space available for that beyond the space you've mentioned, or must that be inclusive? how about space for those reservoirs, chiller?

i think running cs in the uc is by far the best way to go for you. you're going to need your time to take care of other stuff besides dealing with nutes and i'm having fantastic success with cultured solutions and UC roots.

i'd go with growing from seeds first . . . . only because getting clones increases the risk of bringing bad stuff into your grow space. believe me, your head will be spinning enough while doing your first grow without having to battle spider mites at the same time.

'hope this helps.