Hello, I’m new and I’m having some diagnosis issues any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Nunhunter]

Hi,
Here I have is 5 inzane in the membrane ladies. It is my First time using this strain. I’m using destiny grow systems dark matter as a medium first time. Lol
Didn’t realize the run off was around 2200+ ppm. Until after they were transferred. I flushed with 7.0 RO water and growth plus.
The problem is I am Still having issues.

Ph run off 6.2-6.5.
LED lights are 7”-9” above canopy.
I have a fan blowing the top of the heat sink and the plants themselves.
Room temp is 76-78. Humidity is 55%.
The run off of the plants were 2000-3000ppm. So I flushed till runoff was about 400-600ppm so I put them back in and it’s been three days.
Stays moist and wet for 5-6 days.
I’m getting curling thinking it’s overwatering since I just flushed them not sure three show the same signs.

But the smaller ladies aren’t doing so well.

LED lights are quantum board lm301b 4000k 240w two panels. On a dimmable switch that’s set to about 140w.

Feeling like the high ppm in the destiny dark matter set this back.
But is the ppm still to high in the medium for that small of a plant?

Any help would be appreciated and I am open to learning and want to be happy and gain knowledge from my hobby.

Thank you,
Nunhunter

 

[az2000]

I’m using destiny grow systems dark matter as a medium first time. ... Didn’t realize the run off was around 2200+ ppm. ... I flushed with 7.0 RO water and growth plus.

The problem is I am Still having issues.

Ph run off 6.2-6.5.

The run off of the plants were 2000-3000ppm. So I flushed till runoff was about 400-600ppm so I put them back in and it’s been three days.

Stays moist and wet for 5-6 days.

I’m getting curling thinking it’s overwatering since I just flushed them not sure three show the same signs.

Feeling like the high ppm in the destiny dark matter set this back.

But is the ppm still too high in the medium for that small of a plant?

I think the plants look great. The soil needs to dry. (Stop doing things. You're going to "kill them with kindness.").

I agree with you that the runoff ppm sounded high. But, the plants didn't look like they were burnt or locked out. I've never grown with a fully-amended, composted "living soil." (I think that's what you have.). Maybe those soils contain material that isn't "salt buildup." Maybe when a soil is exhausted, and you start pouring nutrients in, then it's different and can build up. (Or, using a soil that's not fully composted, with nutrients that are more readily available. Like the "hot" potting mixes people sometimes regret growing in.). From what I've read, an organic-rich soil isn't like that. It won't burn. I think that's what you have.).

So, maybe you washed good stuff out.

Based upon the runoff ph (not that I think that's an accurate measure): if the ppms were that high, the runoff ph would be much lower. And the way the plant didn't look like it was suffering (as far as I can see), I think flushing was a mistake.

Maybe I'm wrong. But, I would stop and let the soil dry. Maybe find an organic-grower forum (maybe there's a subforum here) and ask about your "Dark Matter" soil, and what the high ppms might mean with such soil. I think there's something different about a more living soil than a "medium" you feed with each watering.

 

[m8ty]

Why is the light so close to the tiny plants? Pot

 

[Dirtbag]

Yeah I think the light is too close. Also I've heard some less than good things about Destiny lately.. My buddy just switched back to coco cause he was having nothing but trouble with destiny.

 

[Nunhunter]

Hey guys,
The soil (dark matter) has pre fertilizer in it. Mostly mineral. Very high in mineral. Salt and dolomite for balance. the ppm was over 2200 ppm for the run off on just the soil. I wasn’t adding anything to it. Took half solo cup of destiny dark matter. Ran 200 ml of ro water through it and the run off was over 2200 ppm.
So yeah the soil is hot as fuck!
Flushing is what’s Saving the little ones. They have been going yellow for some time and slow growth. After the flush they are now green and getting back to normal.
Growth is picking back up.
I agree super soil Itll naturally feed your plant, but it’s got minerals and salts in it. The EC is so high it’s not possible to grow in this medium. Destiny grow systems Suck.

The light is close. But the par readings and lux is about on par. So the heat it’s giving off isn’t hurting the plant or bleaching it from too many photonS.
I’m around 400 par dispersed across the canopy from underneath the led For veg.
It’s on a dimmable switch. So it’s not getting too much heat from not being bleached.
If I raise to 18” I then have to turn up the dimmable switch to about 75% to achieve the correct par and lux coverage.
Issue is the lights got 12-16” of wasted light. Creating more heat and chances for issues.
Whole point of led is less heat can put close to canopy and if you use a light meter or par reader then can tell where you can put your light, if you got 2 feet of nugs you got around 6 inches that are gonna be below the desired par. Especially if the canopy isn’t cropped and trained correctly.

Thus turning your light down brining it closer and running a fan. If it’s not bleaching or slowing growth. You can put it anywhere you like.. just make sure to adjust par and lux readings.

That’s my two cents. Considering if you know how light works bringing it to 6” off canopy with air will reduce heat, electricity and help the plants stop stretching, continue photosynthesis and chlorophyll.

If worried get a Infared temperature reader. You shoot the IR on the leaf and it’ll tell you temp. In led the leaf temp is different then the temp underneath the led and above. Etc.
If the IR reader reads a adequate temp for canopy then you can do what you will.


I haven’t seen any proper research done on LED and par for people to ensure quality across the board. People think you gotta be 18-30 inches above. Par is strong for about 2 feet of coverage area at full power on the 240w qb288s.

I raised the lights yesterday and turned up the light so it would reach the proper par reading/lux and now it’s very hot in the room and the leaves curling more... lol so yeah gotta think through these things. Just cause people think it’s general rule to blast full power in veg on small plants thinking it’ll run better is ludacris. Best to keep light close turn it down create less heat an fissures this way.

I appreciate your guys input and taking the time to help a brother out.
Thank you and smoke on!

Ps: some research or science to back up these ideas of raising the light would be helpful. The whole point is to achieve required par and lumen. Not waste energy and money trying to raise your lights at full blast.

 

[Beachwalker]

Hey guys,
The soil (dark matter) has pre fertilizer in it. Mostly mineral. Very high in mineral. Salt and dolomite for balance. the ppm was over 2200 ppm for the run off on just the soil. I wasn’t adding anything to it. Took half solo cup of destiny dark matter. Ran 200 ml of ro water through it and the run off was over 2200 ppm.
So yeah the soil is hot as fuck!
Flushing is what’s Saving the little ones. They have been going yellow for some time and slow growth. After the flush they are now green and getting back to normal.
Growth is picking back up.
I agree super soil Itll naturally feed your plant, but it’s got minerals and salts in it. The EC is so high it’s not possible to grow in this medium. Destiny grow systems Suck.

The light is close. But the par readings and lux is about on par. So the heat it’s giving off isn’t hurting the plant or bleaching it from too many photonS.
I’m around 400 par dispersed across the canopy from underneath the led For veg.
It’s on a dimmable switch. So it’s not getting too much heat from not being bleached.
If I raise to 18” I then have to turn up the dimmable switch to about 75% to achieve the correct par and lux coverage.
Issue is the lights got 12-16” of wasted light. Creating more heat and chances for issues.
Whole point of led is less heat can put close to canopy and if you use a light meter or par reader then can tell where you can put your light, if you got 2 feet of nugs you got around 6 inches that are gonna be below the desired par. Especially if the canopy isn’t cropped and trained correctly.

Thus turning your light down brining it closer and running a fan. If it’s not bleaching or slowing growth. You can put it anywhere you like.. just make sure to adjust par and lux readings.

That’s my two cents. Considering if you know how light works bringing it to 6” off canopy with air will reduce heat, electricity and help the plants stop stretching, continue photosynthesis and chlorophyll.

If worried get a Infared temperature reader. You shoot the IR on the leaf and it’ll tell you temp. In led the leaf temp is different then the temp underneath the led and above. Etc.
If the IR reader reads a adequate temp for canopy then you can do what you will.

You still don't mention anything about pH which is what your issue is, not your soil in my opinion

It's called lock out and it happens much quicker in hot soil making pH much more important in your situation, again, just my opinion, best of luck

 

[Nunhunter]

The original post says the ph in the soil and the runoff. The ph isn’t the issue as it’s 6.1-6.5 for soil that’s perfect ph for soil the run off is full of minerals and the EC content was around 4.4. Lol menaing that nothing will grow in that soil. What had happened was that the soil has too high of ppm and EC meaning the minerals and metals are wayyy to hot and high. This super soil sucks. is just like the rest of the branded bottled crap that the hydro and fertilizer companies sell you.
All junk over priced. You can go out in nature and harvest all your nutrients for free. I was trying this soil out because buddy said it was good, it’s complete garbage.
Use worm casting seaweed and kelp with Foliar spray in a good soil and you won’t have issues.

 

[az2000]

The original post says the ph in the soil and the runoff. The ph isn’t the issue as it’s 6.1-6.5 for soil that’s perfect ph

That's perplexing. Typically when people have too much fertilizer in the soil (reflected by high runoff ppms), the soil turns acidic. That's part of why it didn't sound like it needed flushing. Maybe the soil has a lot of dolomite to hold the ph higher.

You can improve the drainage/drying by aerating the soil. Poke a thin rod through the soil in 5-6 places. Do that each time after watering. That can help keep the soil loose and get air down into it.

 

[Nunhunter]

This super soil has Dolomitic limestone so it’s got a natural ph buffer in it. Which is weird cause you’d think it would be extremely acidic. So that’ll be gone. I’m currently just flushing all the soil when the soil permits me too. So that’s the ec is normal. Then I can properly veg. Then during flower. I’ll take this soil. And put 1-6 with soilless and it’ll be around the normal range for flowering. But it’s heavy on minerals and blood meal idk if I want to smoke that. Lol

Gonna use probably a soilless soil sunshine perhaps for flowering.
This has a lot of perlite and coco in it and it’s still retaining water in its moss.
Less peat moss. I mean yeah the system works but. I wouldn’t use this for super soil.

 

[az2000]

Gonna use probably a soilless soil sunshine perhaps for flowering.
This has a lot of perlite and coco in it and it’s still retaining water in its moss.
Less peat moss. I mean yeah the system works but. I wouldn’t use this for super soil.

I've never transplanted into different media. I'd be nervous about uneven drying or nutrient availability.

I like light/airy soil. I started in soilless (Pro-Mix HP with 25% more perlite). I changed to soil by adding 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus potting mix. So, it dries in 2-3 days. I feed everything by pouring nutrients in. It has a soilless nature that way. But, I feed soil nutrients, not hydro/synthetic.

In that soil, I get lockout when the runoff ppms are 2400-2500. The soil ph will be in the low 4 range. I don't let the runoff ppms go over 1800. It doesn't get up there until early to mid flower. I know how much to feed (strength & volume for runoff) so it stays in the 1600-1800 range. At that point, I don't worry about the soil ph because it rises as it dries. It might be 5.4 after watering, and then dry to 6.8. It doesn't seem like something that can be precise in soil. It seems to track the salts in the soil. If I feed less strength, or more runoff, it will 5.8 (and dry to 7.2). It just seems like a window that way. Not a precise, constant state. (But, that could be that I grow in a soiled soilless.).

I've wanted to grow in a rich soil where the plant has all it needs. But, I see so many people having problems with that kind of soil. Light and airy works well. It's nice to deliver the nutrients through the top. More immediate feedback. Fast drying means you can deliver the nutrients more frequently.

 

[Rikismom420]

That's perplexing. Typically when people have too much fertilizer in the soil (reflected by high runoff ppms), the soil turns acidic. That's part of why it didn't sound like it needed flushing. Maybe the soil has a lot of dolomite to hold the ph higher.

You can improve the drainage/drying by aerating the soil. Poke a thin rod through the soil in 5-6 places. Do that each time after watering. That can help keep the soil loose and get air down into it.

So i use FFOF and coco on the bottom and perlite mixed in, my auto flowers are 3 week in soil, 600 wt led 18” above canopy, ph is 6.5 . No nutrients yet just letting the FFOF do its thing..so would my soil be hot and do u know how long nutrients last in the soil.
Happy growing

 

[az2000]

So i use FFOF and coco on the bottom and perlite mixed in, my auto flowers are 3 week in soil, 600 wt led 18” above canopy, ph is 6.5 . No nutrients yet just letting the FFOF do its thing..so would my soil be hot and do u know how long nutrients last in the soil.
Happy growing

We're probably hijacking the OP's thread. But, I've never used Fox Farm anything. I've read Ocean Forest is hot. It always looks too dense/heavy to me (from my soilless orientation, creating a unnaturally light "soil" from soilless). I think I've read OF has enough nutrients for veg. If it were me I would monitor runoff ppms to see if that says anything about the nutrients being depleted (and what my pouring nutrients in are doing, if I'm giving too much and they're building up). That works for my light soilled soilless. It might be different with a real (dense/rich) soil.

If it were me, I would add perlite to any Fox Farm product. (Or, really, any soil. I added 25% perlite to Pro-Mix HP -- which itself contains 35% perlite. Perlite is God's way of telling us he loves us. You can't have too much, IMO.).

So, maybe your addition of perlite to OF (on top of a bed of coco) reduces the OF strength. If your plants look good, then it must be the right balance. I wouldn't feed until 4-5 weeks? Start small (1/8th strenght, work up each feeding). Like I said, I woul watch the runoff ppms. That's a very reliable way for me to see overfeeding/buildup. But, that could be peculiar to my soiled soilless. It might not be meaningful in your more authentic soil.

 

[Dan789]

Just questioning the wisdom/logic in flushing a new plant and for that matter, ppm'g the runoff? Why? They're hardly out of the seedling stage, and don't seem to look symptomatic of anything wrong.

 

[az2000]

Just questioning the wisdom/logic in flushing a new plant and for that matter, ppm'g the runoff? Why?

For me, runoff ppm shows salt buildup. But, that happens in transition, early flower. (It doesn't happen now that I dialed in my nutrient strength & runoff volume). That's why I didn't think the OP had a problem so early in the grow. (If the soil came too hot, it seems like it would have burned the plants when they were younger.).

But, runoff ppms may mean different things (or nothing at all) for different soils. My soil has virtually no nutrients. I feed every watering. In my case, runoff ppms are very informative. But, I don't pay attention to them until early flower. They rise slowly until then, and then go vertical (easily). 2400-2500ppm is where lockout happens for me.

 

[Ace9137]

Hey guys,
The soil (dark matter) has pre fertilizer in it. Mostly mineral. Very high in mineral. Salt and dolomite for balance. the ppm was over 2200 ppm for the run off on just the soil. I wasn’t adding anything to it. Took half solo cup of destiny dark matter. Ran 200 ml of ro water through it and the run off was over 2200 ppm.
So yeah the soil is hot as fuck!
Flushing is what’s Saving the little ones. They have been going yellow for some time and slow growth. After the flush they are now green and getting back to normal.
Growth is picking back up.
I agree super soil Itll naturally feed your plant, but it’s got minerals and salts in it. The EC is so high it’s not possible to grow in this medium. Destiny grow systems Suck.

The light is close. But the par readings and lux is about on par. So the heat it’s giving off isn’t hurting the plant or bleaching it from too many photonS.
I’m around 400 par dispersed across the canopy from underneath the led For veg.
It’s on a dimmable switch. So it’s not getting too much heat from not being bleached.
If I raise to 18” I then have to turn up the dimmable switch to about 75% to achieve the correct par and lux coverage.
Issue is the lights got 12-16” of wasted light. Creating more heat and chances for issues.
Whole point of led is less heat can put close to canopy and if you use a light meter or par reader then can tell where you can put your light, if you got 2 feet of nugs you got around 6 inches that are gonna be below the desired par. Especially if the canopy isn’t cropped and trained correctly.

Thus turning your light down brining it closer and running a fan. If it’s not bleaching or slowing growth. You can put it anywhere you like.. just make sure to adjust par and lux readings.

That’s my two cents. Considering if you know how light works bringing it to 6” off canopy with air will reduce heat, electricity and help the plants stop stretching, continue photosynthesis and chlorophyll.

If worried get a Infared temperature reader. You shoot the IR on the leaf and it’ll tell you temp. In led the leaf temp is different then the temp underneath the led and above. Etc.
If the IR reader reads a adequate temp for canopy then you can do what you will.


I haven’t seen any proper research done on LED and par for people to ensure quality across the board. People think you gotta be 18-30 inches above. Par is strong for about 2 feet of coverage area at full power on the 240w qb288s.

I raised the lights yesterday and turned up the light so it would reach the proper par reading/lux and now it’s very hot in the room and the leaves curling more... lol so yeah gotta think through these things. Just cause people think it’s general rule to blast full power in veg on small plants thinking it’ll run better is ludacris. Best to keep light close turn it down create less heat an fissures this way.

I appreciate your guys input and taking the time to help a brother out.
Thank you and smoke on!

Ps: some research or science to back up these ideas of raising the light would be helpful. The whole point is to achieve required par and lumen. Not waste energy and money trying to raise your lights at full blast.

the speed of light =
299 792 458 m / s
that is the speed of light

Inverse Square Law Formula

this link will help, now for common sense, you do not need a ph meter for balanced soil, lay off the water, take your time. Good Luck, great skill, and blessings ✌ :cool:

 

[Rikismom420]

We're probably hijacking the OP's thread. But, I've never used Fox Farm anything. I've read Ocean Forest is hot. It always looks too dense/heavy to me (from my soilless orientation, creating a unnaturally light "soil" from soilless). I think I've read OF has enough nutrients for veg. If it were me I would monitor runoff ppms to see if that says anything about the nutrients being depleted (and what my pouring nutrients in are doing, if I'm giving too much and they're building up). That works for my light soilled soilless. It might be different with a real (dense/rich) soil.

If it were me, I would add perlite to any Fox Farm product. (Or, really, any soil. I added 25% perlite to Pro-Mix HP -- which itself contains 35% perlite. Perlite is God's way of telling us he loves us. You can't have too much, IMO.).

So, maybe your addition of perlite to OF (on top of a bed of coco) reduces the OF strength. If your plants look good, then it must be the right balance. I wouldn't feed until 4-5 weeks? Start small (1/8th strenght, work up each feeding). Like I said, I woul watch the runoff ppms. That's a very reliable way for me to see overfeeding/buildup. But, that could be peculiar to my soiled soilless. It might not be meaningful in your more authentic soil.

Sorry about the hijacking. Just had a thought and posted. Yes I have ppm meter in shipping so I will watch and check for that...thx for the info
Happy growing

 

[az2000]

Sorry about the hijacking. Just had a thought and posted. Yes I have ppm meter in shipping so I will watch and check for that...thx for the info
Happy growing

It doesn't hurt to watch the runoff ppms, and see if you notice a trend. But, I get the impression it doesn't mean as much in a heavier, richer, composted soil. For me, it was absolutely *key* to recognizing my overfeeding, and to find the balance between strength and runoff volume to keep the salt buildup in check.

My soil is 50-60% Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite), 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus potting mix (Home Depot). 20-25% perlite. (I add 1 to 1.5 tablespoon dolomite lime per gallon of that mix. I use Fertilome Hi-Yield Agricultural Lime. It can be tricky finding dolomite lime.). That's a super light soil. Dries in 2-3 days. It's basically soilless with a little soil added so the organic'ish soil fertilizer products work better. To me it's the best of both worlds between soilless and soil. I landed upon that randomly. It's worked well, so I haven't changed it. There could be better ways. Sometimes I want to experiment with using Kellogg Cactus & Palm potting mix. It has a sandy texture. I think less Pro-Mix and some of this would be a good soil texture. (But, it works fine as it is. So, I never am motivated to experiment.

 

[Beachwalker]

So i use FFOF and coco on the bottom and perlite mixed in, my auto flowers are 3 week in soil, 600 wt led 18” above canopy, ph is 6.5 . No nutrients yet just letting the FFOF do its thing..so would my soil be hot and do u know how long nutrients last in the soil.
Happy growing

4 weeks is a good average; could be a week either way depending on the strain

 

[Rikismom420]

It doesn't hurt to watch the runoff ppms, and see if you notice a trend. But, I get the impression it doesn't mean as much in a heavier, richer, composted soil. For me, it was absolutely *key* to recognizing my overfeeding, and to find the balance between strength and runoff volume to keep the salt buildup in check.

My soil is 50-60% Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite), 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus potting mix (Home Depot). 20-25% perlite. (I add 1 to 1.5 tablespoon dolomite lime per gallon of that mix. I use Fertilome Hi-Yield Agricultural Lime. It can be tricky finding dolomite lime.). That's a super light soil. Dries in 2-3 days. It's basically soilless with a little soil added so the organic'ish soil fertilizer products work better. To me it's the best of both worlds between soilless and soil. I landed upon that randomly. It's worked well, so I haven't changed it. There could be better ways. Sometimes I want to experiment with using Kellogg Cactus & Palm potting mix. It has a sandy texture. I think less Pro-Mix and some of this would be a good soil texture. (But, it works fine as it is. So, I never am motivated to experiment.

Thats me if I find what works I will keep on doing it, the FFOF is not really heavy as it has perlite vermiculite in it and the coco drains at the bottom., debating on transplanting my auto into a bigger pot but have read so UCB about the subject....like...don’t do it....that I may trans one and then not the other two.my potting/ Moss, dolomite potting soil mix is something I was going to add to the new pot but then they so do t because it will shock...so I guess I will experiment with one and see. Wait on the Nutes awhile and see.
Thx all. Appreciate the feedback
Happy growing

 

[Jimster]

This super soil has Dolomitic limestone so it’s got a natural ph buffer in it. Which is weird cause you’d think it would be extremely acidic. So that’ll be gone. I’m currently just flushing all the soil when the soil permits me too. So that’s the ec is normal. Then I can properly veg. Then during flower. I’ll take this soil. And put 1-6 with soilless and it’ll be around the normal range for flowering. But it’s heavy on minerals and blood meal idk if I want to smoke that. Lol

Gonna use probably a soilless soil sunshine perhaps for flowering.
This has a lot of perlite and coco in it and it’s still retaining water in its moss.
Less peat moss. I mean yeah the system works but. I wouldn’t use this for super soil.

I use Promix for growing and never have issues with water or Ph, although I don't use nutrients by the bucket full either. I've used it for decades and never had a problem with it. If you get Promis, Get the Promix BX or HP, not the potting soil. The potting soil might be great, but I prefer not having any nutrients in the growing medium unless I put them there, hence my BX or HP preferences.