Help me plan a high-end second grow

[CannaDana]

Please help me plan my second grow.

My first grow was more successful than I could have imagined. It was done on a lark. One day I spontaneously came home from the dispensary with four clones and then thought, "Okay, what now?" and went out and just bought random used equipment. Made several mistakes along the way. Studied like my life depended on it. Changed my entire setup mid-way through to high-end equipment. Wound up with a moderate harvest of some really impressively potent stuff. Here's the result of the first grow under a single light.

So now I want to do it right from the beginning. And I want to have a setup that is as professional as I can make it, and can scale in the future. Can you help me plan for that? Here are my goals and questions:

I have one commercial quality LED light in the Grower's Choice ROI-E720. Great for a 5x5 space. I'm getting three more of those, so I'll have four on a single controller. How many plants should I grow under 4 lights to maximize my harvest? My assumption is to SCROG to fill up the canopy, but if SOG or other techniques will result in a larger yield, please let me know.

I grew in 5 gal. fabric pots. Should I grow in 10 gal. or 15 gal. pots this time? Or do you reach a point of diminishing returns? Also, height....

I'm also growing in soil. What are your thoughts about growing organic as opposed to conventional in terms of maximizing yield?

No grow tent for me. This will be a 100 sq. ft. grow being done in a 12x12 room. Do you have suggestions for best grow room setups for that size?

First grow was from clones. Should I grow from seed or clone? And if seed, how can you find really good genetics from all the scammy seed sellers out there? Good genetics is my #1 concern.

I got about 1.5 lbs of bud from four plants under one light. Okay, that's fine for a spontaneous first grow, I guess. But in the future, as I scale up over time, it will be very important to maximize yield. There are so many different and competing theories, and a lot of it sounds like bullshit to me. Where can I learn solid techniques for getting the most bang for the watt?

I'm going to school on you guys. Teach me! I'm a sponge, I'll soak it up. I'm a 65-year old woman, with enough disposable income to do this right but don't have decades to learn by trial and error. And my ultimate goal is a licensed 300 lbs/year of top shelf indoor (and possibly some mixed light, light dep stuff too), so I have a big learning curve. But what else you gonna do in old age, huh? :) I want to do it right, right now. No compromises. Please point me in the right directions!

 

[growsince79]

Please help me plan my second grow.

My first grow was more successful than I could have imagined. It was done on a lark. One day I spontaneously came home from the dispensary with four clones and then thought, "Okay, what now?" and went out and just bought random used equipment. Made several mistakes along the way. Studied like my life depended on it. Changed my entire setup mid-way through to high-end equipment. Wound up with a moderate harvest of some really impressively potent stuff. Here's the result of the first grow under a single light.

View attachment 1191011 View attachment 1191012

So now I want to do it right from the beginning. And I want to have a setup that is as professional as I can make it, and can scale in the future. Can you help me plan for that? Here are my goals and questions:

I have one killer light in the Grower's Choice ROI-E720. Great for a 5x5 space. I'm getting three more of those, so I'll have four on a single controller. How many plants should I grow under 4 lights to maximize my harvest? My assumption is to SCROG to fill up the canopy, but if SOG or other techniques will result in a larger yield, please let me know.

I grew in 5 gal. fabric pots. Should I grow in 10 gal. or 15 gal. pots this time? Or do you reach a point of diminishing returns? Also, height....

I'm also growing in soil. What are your thoughts about growing organic as opposed to conventional in terms of maximizing yield?

No grow tent for me. This will be a 100 sq. ft. grow being done in a 12x12 room. Do you have suggestions for best grow room setups for that size?

First grow was from clones. Should I grow from seed or clone? And if seed, how can you find really good genetics from all the scammy seed sellers out there?

I got about 1.5 lbs of bud from four plants under one light. Okay, that's fine for a first grow, I guess. But in the future, as I scale up over time, it will be very important to maximize yield. There are so many different and competing theories, and a lot of it sounds like bullshit to me. Where can I learn solid techniques for getting the most bang for the watt?

I'm going to school on you guys. Teach me! I'm a sponge, I'll soak it up. I'm a 65-year old woman, with enough disposable income to do this right. And my ultimate goal is a licensed 300 lbs/year of top shelf indoor (and possibly some mixed light, light dep stuff too), so I have a big learning curve and don't have decades to fuck around and learn the hard way. I want to do it right, right now. No compromises. Please point me in the right directions!

SOG identical clones 4/sqft is the best yield I ever saw. With a fast clone, you can harvest about 12lb every 60 days.

 

[mysticepipedon]

Before you dive head first into full-scale production, do a keeper search. There is no point in having a lot of weed that you don't really want. And maybe have a little 3 x 3 tent in that room to keep mother plants and for rooting clones.

While seed plants are often most vigorous, it's usually a crap shoot on getting a pheno that really does it for you. So I recommend a big seed run, taking clones of the girls, with the intent of finding a few special plants that you love. You can start a lot, take clones and flip as early as possible, then try all the different plants you get and find the best.

There are plenty of good breeders and seed sellers, as well as sucky ones.

 

[2Bad]

Before you dive head first into full-scale production, do a keeper search. There is no point in having a lot of weed that you don't really want. And maybe have a little 3 x 3 tent in that room to keep mother plants and for rooting clones.

While seed plants are often most vigorous, it's usually a crap shoot on getting a pheno that really does it for you. So I recommend a big seed run, taking clones of the girls, with the intent of finding a few special plants that you love. You can start a lot, take clones and flip as early as possible, then try all the different plants you get and find the best.

There are plenty of good breeders and seed sellers, as well as sucky ones.

Black Friday

 

[growsince79]

Before you dive head first into full-scale production, do a keeper search. There is no point in having a lot of weed that you don't really want. And maybe have a little 3 x 3 tent in that room to keep mother plants and for rooting clones.

While seed plants are often most vigorous, it's usually a crap shoot on getting a pheno that really does it for you. So I recommend a big seed run, taking clones of the girls, with the intent of finding a few special plants that you love. You can start a lot, take clones and flip as early as possible, then try all the different plants you get and find the best.

There are plenty of good breeders and seed sellers, as well as sucky ones.

^^^^Absolute must if you grow to sell. ^^^^

 

[HaveApuff]

Very ambitious plans considering only one grow of 4 plants, with only a few issues. Before you run out and purchase all this equipment and spend those endless dollars you have available, might I suggest you do a few grows with what you have and already learned, and do more research on how to SCROG so that you can learn about topping, lolly-popping, FIMING, and LST techniques which you can apply in your future grows. To do what you want requires practice, regardless of which technique you use and doing this requires more of your time. Multiply this by what could fit in your grow space you plan on using will also depend on how many plants you will need to fill your space to maximize the coverage of your lights in this space. This will also mean increases in the number of lights you will need and that also costs additional money, and we haven't even added the soil, or nutrients. And, then there is ventilation/ AC considerations, depending on which route you choose to go, which also costs more.

I'm also getting close to retirement, and though we don't have decades to learn, the truth is we still need to learn to crawl, before we walk. I really suggest that you do a couple of successful grows and continue to learn before you go all in. This way you will learn when to do what and know why...There is a certain amount of knowledge you really need to catch up on....and it won't take you decades. Then, if you still want to go big, at least you will have more than a lark of success under your belt to make your choices. Just saying.

I certainly don't have a 12 X 12 space, but I do have a closed grow room made to accommodate a 6 X 3 space efficiently and successfully with soil and and SCROG. It took me almost 17 years, and some with many unsuccessful grows and other problems of growing cannabis to finally decide what I wanted and how to dial it all in to get my own top shelf consistently in my grows in the last 2 years . I find it the perfect size for what time and money I wanted to commit to, and still remain an affordable venture. I will also help if you are interested learning how to shape up your plants for SCROG techniques.

Here's a few samples of my grow space, as I am now back to another first week in flower period, weaving my SCROG...and the last picture shows the results of what I received on my last grow.

 

[m4s73r]

Please help me plan my second grow.

My first grow was more successful than I could have imagined. It was done on a lark. One day I spontaneously came home from the dispensary with four clones and then thought, "Okay, what now?" and went out and just bought random used equipment. Made several mistakes along the way. Studied like my life depended on it. Changed my entire setup mid-way through to high-end equipment. Wound up with a moderate harvest of some really impressively potent stuff. Here's the result of the first grow under a single light.

View attachment 1191011 View attachment 1191012

So now I want to do it right from the beginning. And I want to have a setup that is as professional as I can make it, and can scale in the future. Can you help me plan for that? Here are my goals and questions:

I have one commercial quality LED light in the Grower's Choice ROI-E720. Great for a 5x5 space. I'm getting three more of those, so I'll have four on a single controller. How many plants should I grow under 4 lights to maximize my harvest? My assumption is to SCROG to fill up the canopy, but if SOG or other techniques will result in a larger yield, please let me know.

I grew in 5 gal. fabric pots. Should I grow in 10 gal. or 15 gal. pots this time? Or do you reach a point of diminishing returns? Also, height....

I'm also growing in soil. What are your thoughts about growing organic as opposed to conventional in terms of maximizing yield?

No grow tent for me. This will be a 100 sq. ft. grow being done in a 12x12 room. Do you have suggestions for best grow room setups for that size?

First grow was from clones. Should I grow from seed or clone? And if seed, how can you find really good genetics from all the scammy seed sellers out there? Good genetics is my #1 concern.

I got about 1.5 lbs of bud from four plants under one light. Okay, that's fine for a spontaneous first grow, I guess. But in the future, as I scale up over time, it will be very important to maximize yield. There are so many different and competing theories, and a lot of it sounds like bullshit to me. Where can I learn solid techniques for getting the most bang for the watt?

I'm going to school on you guys. Teach me! I'm a sponge, I'll soak it up. I'm a 65-year old woman, with enough disposable income to do this right but don't have decades to learn by trial and error. And my ultimate goal is a licensed 300 lbs/year of top shelf indoor (and possibly some mixed light, light dep stuff too), so I have a big learning curve. But what else you gonna do in old age, huh? :) I want to do it right, right now. No compromises. Please point me in the right directions!

So many schools of thought could go into this. For 300 lbs per year, Do you have another room your vegging in? or are you vegging and blooming in this same room? Do you want to prioritize quality or quantity? Do you want to prioritize low or high maintenance/turnover costs. (meaning how much you spend from one grow to the next)? So your doing a 10x10 inside a 12x12? That seems awkward.

I personally grow in 2 4x4 beds in 5x5 tents. Annually I spend $150 per bed in nutrition. I get 3 harvest per year per bed. Averaging annually yield is 16-18 lbs/year. This is fully automated grow, hands off, does its thing. Been growing for 10 years, 7 years organic 2 years in beds. So if I take my numbers and scaled that up that lets see. 8 lbs/year/bed. We would need 13 beds. So to fit your space you would have to do 12 beds since thats all that would fit. So yeah co2 to get them numbers up, 12 600w lights, AC. And thats once you learn no till living soil method. One company I do know that does this style commercially is Redbud Soil Co. out of OKC. Edit to say: 9 plants per bed. Veg em for a week or flip em.

On the flip side, if you went with say a 3/5 gallon coco/perlite DTW hydro set up You could shave off 3 lights and get 4x12 of your bloom space back or fill that space with more buckets and Make sure that you hit that 300 pound mark. May even go a touch over. A good company to check out for a clean system is TheBucketCompany. Here is a link to a grow room designer that may help get your ideas in front of you. https://designyourgrow.thebucketcompany.com/ Nutrient costs on this will proly add up as will water costs. However the speed and turn over is proly unmatched for solid medium supstrate setup. The Undercurrent guys will proly still beat you out in veg however. But those systems are finicky imo.

I can say that in a 12x12 with only 4 lights lighting up a 10x10 space, 300lbs is proly outside of whats possible under normal growing. Im not saying that some weed nerd couldnt figure out some crazy obscure way to do it. But for commercial propagation you want something simple and easily repeatable.

 

[CannaDana]

So many schools of thought could go into this. For 300 lbs per year, Do you have another room your vegging in? or are you vegging and blooming in this same room? Do you want to prioritize quality or quantity? Do you want to prioritize low or high maintenance/turnover costs. (meaning how much you spend from one grow to the next)? So your doing a 10x10 inside a 12x12? That seems awkward.

I personally grow in 2 4x4 beds in 5x5 tents. Annually I spend $150 per bed in nutrition. I get 3 harvest per year per bed. Averaging annually yield is 16-18 lbs/year. This is fully automated grow, hands off, does its thing. Been growing for 10 years, 7 years organic 2 years in beds. So if I take my numbers and scaled that up that lets see. 8 lbs/year/bed. We would need 13 beds. So to fit your space you would have to do 12 beds since thats all that would fit. So yeah co2 to get them numbers up, 12 600w lights, AC. And thats once you learn no till living soil method. One company I do know that does this style commercially is Redbud Soil Co. out of OKC.

On the flip side, if you went with say a 3/5 gallon coco/perlite DTW hydro set up You could shave off 3 lights and get 4x12 of your bloom space back or fill that space with more buckets and Make sure that you hit that 300 pound mark. May even go a touch over. A good company to check out for a clean system is TheBucketCompany. Here is a link to a grow room designer that may help get your ideas in front of you. https://designyourgrow.thebucketcompany.com/ Nutrient costs on this will proly add up as will water costs. However the speed and turn over is proly unmatched for solid medium supstrate setup. The Undercurrent guys will proly still beat you out in veg however. But those systems are finicky imo.

I can say that in a 12x12 with only 4 lights lighting up a 10x10 space, 300lbs is proly outside of whats possible under normal growing. Im not saying that some weed nerd couldnt figure out some crazy obscure way to do it. But for commercial propagation you want something simple and easily repeatable.

Yeah, I should clarify. LOL! I no how, no way plan to grow 300 lbs in a 12x12 space. That's just the space I'm using this grow. I'm going to have four 720 watt lights in this 12x12 room, for this grow. My yield will be whatever it is.

300 lbs is for the future. It's a goal. A target. In a different 500 sq. ft. space.

I plan to fill this room with one 5x10 grow space on the left in fabric pots, one 5x10 grow space on the right, with an aisle in-between.

I have installed a recirculating air conditioner, a humidifier and dehumidifier on a controller set to maintain a pre-set humidity level, and an in-line carbon filter. I have one Grower's Choice ROI-E720 LED and three more on order, which will all be linked to the Grower's Choice controller that I already have, mounted two on the left and two on the right. I do not yet have CO2, but that's next on the list. The walls of the room are painted to control mold and mildew, and are lined with reflective mylar. I have a water catchment and recycling system that reclaims water from the de-humidifier and pumps it into a tank where I can add nutrients and then spray onto plants (though I'm considering setting up a drip system).

That's where I'm at right now. I'm thinking maybe 24 plants, perhaps, if I use a SCROG method? Not sure. That's part of the advice I'm asking for. I have 9' ceilings, so the plants can't get more than about 6-feet tall.

For this second grow, I want to prioritize top genetics and getting the full yield from those genetics that I can. Whatever the genetics dictate for yield, I want to get all of it. My goal is learning to maximize yield from whatever I am growing, but not necessarily to grow high-yield cultivars. It's about efficiency rather than overall yield.

I'm reading and studying, and I'm sure I will be modifying as I learn. But I tend to dive into the deep end of any pool I get into, and I want to jump in and make all my mistakes, and learn from them. I'd rather be overly ambitious and have a dozen problems to solve, rather than be conservative and have a perfect grow. I feel like the best way to learn about this, for me anyway, is to go for it hard, screw it up, encounter problems, find solutions to the problems, and learn my lessons. I'd rather have to solve a dozen problems (or even lose an entire crop) than to have a perfect conservative grow. I don't learn anything from having a conservative grow. That might not be the philosophy for you, but it has worked for me for 65 years.

 

[Anthem]

Yeah, I should clarify. LOL! I no how, no way plan to grow 300 lbs in a 12x12 space. That's just the space I'm using this grow. I'm going to have four 720 watt lights in this 12x12 room, for this grow. My yield will be whatever it is.

300 lbs is for the future. It's a goal. A target. In a different 500 sq. ft. space.

I plan to fill this room with one 5x10 grow space on the left in fabric pots, one 5x10 grow space on the right, with an aisle in-between.

I have installed a recirculating air conditioner, a humidifier and dehumidifier on a controller set to maintain a pre-set humidity level, and an in-line carbon filter. I have one Grower's Choice ROI-E720 LED and three more on order, which will all be linked to the Grower's Choice controller that I already have, mounted two on the left and two on the right. I do not yet have CO2, but that's next on the list. The walls of the room are painted to control mold and mildew, and are lined with reflective mylar. I have a water catchment and recycling system that reclaims water from the de-humidifier and pumps it into a tank where I can add nutrients and then spray onto plants (though I'm considering setting up a drip system).

That's where I'm at right now. I'm thinking maybe 24 plants, perhaps, if I use a SCROG method? Not sure. That's part of the advice I'm asking for. I have 9' ceilings, so the plants can't get more than about 6-feet tall.

4 GC 720's
1.5 to 2 tons of AC to be safe. 2 head units one set higher than the other for better control
1 Quest 105 or =
1 Humidifier
1 controller
co2 system
Hydro is the way to go. If you can squeeze in a drain to waste system this will be the most effective for turn around and plant grow but not for a newbie. Look at going to something like a Greentree Hydro system first
4 720s pull 24 amps alone ( need at least a 30 amp breaker)
1 breaker for the quest 105. Figure out the amps ( watts divided by volts = amps ) multiple by 1.3 to be safe ( you can run a breaker to 80 percent of the listed rating safely)
1 40 amp 240 volt for the ac '
1 20 amp breaker with multiple duplexes for small equipment

 

[HaveApuff]

I am curious CannaDana, does this 12 x 12 space have enough electrical supply to run all those lights and an AC unit, plus any other additional equipment? I know that in planning my grow space I added 2 additional dedicated electrical lines to support my equipment....otherwise I would blow the breaker on my one line system every time the AC turned on... with everything else running

 

[CannaDana]

I am curious CannaDana, does this 12 x 12 space have enough electrical supply to run all those lights and an AC unit, plus any other additional equipment? I know that in planning my grow space I added 2 additional dedicated electrical lines to support my equipment....otherwise I would blow the breaker on my one line system every time the AC turned on... with everything else running

I ran 50 amps to it. I'm hoping that's enough. I know nothing about electricity, but the electrician said that should do it. The air conditioning is on its own breaker.

 

[HaveApuff]

Good luck with your plans.

 

[Bullmark69]

Are you looking to adopt a 52 yr old son??

 

[CannaDana]

Are you looking to adopt a 52 yr old son??

Depends. Are you handy, have 20 years cannabis growing experience, and are you willing to help me consume all the product?