Help with Def..why do so many look the same??

[CrazyCatz72]

Hiya Folks, been looking around the Forum and other Forums and Googled it..but still not 100% sure

"and before you say use the Search Bar" it's crap!!

So to the problem: I've got 2x White Widow X Skunk#1 these are 9wks into Veg and in 3L Air-Pots with a 30-40% Perlite/ 60-70% Soil and 3cm Layer of Clay Pebbles in the bottom of Pot.

Here's a few Pics -

(didn't work??)

I've given them a weak solution of Epsom Salts...but few days later don't look any better?

Any advice be Great...looking at the last picture I'm thinking Zinc now?.....

Peace

Oh, Can you only upload Pics using URL??

 

[Dunge]

Pics come from your computer. Use the upload file button, then include the pic in your post.
Please do this quickly, as I have one White Widow X Skunk in flower presently and it isn't doing very well.
All older leaves have necrotic spots all over them.
It looks like they got hit by a poison spray a month ago. New leaf is clean but a bit distressed.
I have checked many times for mites and this is not mite damage.
I am in organic super soil with alfalfa tea additions and have never seen this before.
Is this anything like what you are experiencing?

 

[squiggly]

The reason so many of them "look the same" is that the end physiological result of a deficiency is interruption of biological pathways.

A conservatively sized map of the biological pathways in a plant looks something like this (put something under your jaw, because it's going to drop):

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~turk/bio_sim/articles/metabolic_pathways.png

When you interrupt one of these processes there is a cascade of interruptions which flows throughout the system and causes some of the same things to take place--causing similar looks.

There is some ability to tell the difference between some of them, but others are just always going to look similar.

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Hiya Dunge, Sorry took while to Post Pics..Just been watering the other Ladies and then gave WWxSkunks a spray with Alg-A-Mic solution 3ml > 1Ltr of water that had been standing for 24hrs...none of my Ladies are in Flower yet..and most of the Answers/Advice I've had on this is just PUT EM IN BIGGER POTS...Thing is I have 8 other Ladies in Another Grow Room in same size pots in Flower(2wks) and they doing fine?? just been looking on FleaBay for bigger Air-Pots...God they Expensive!!

Thanks for the Heads-up on uploading Pics...Didn't see the Button @ the bottom of post box ;)

Thanks for all and any Replies...will try and get the Bigger Pots just to be on Safe side....still kinda think it's summat else....

Bloody SpiderMites, Thrips, Hermies......oh the Bloody stress!! Need Splif now....

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Hiya Dunge, Sorry took while to Post Pics..Just been watering the other Ladies and then gave WWxSkunks a spray with Alg-A-Mic solution 3ml > 1Ltr of water that had been standing for 24hrs...none of my Ladies are in Flower yet..and most of the Answers/Advice I've had on this is just PUT EM IN BIGGER POTS...Thing is I have 8 other Ladies in Another Grow Room in same size pots in Flower(2wks) and they doing fine?? just been looking on FleaBay for bigger Air-Pots...God they Expensive!!

Thanks for the Heads-up on uploading Pics...Didn't see the Button @ the bottom of post box ;)

View attachment 346466View attachment 346468View attachment 346469View attachment 346471View attachment 346473

Thanks for all and any Replies...will try and get the Bigger Pots just to be on Safe side....still kinda think it's summat else....

Bloody SpiderMites, Thrips, Hermies......oh the Bloody stress!! Need Splif now....

And yes I know it's too crowded in there but had SpiderMite problem in other Grow space and had to check and move Ladies quickly!!

 

[Seamaiden]

Btw, I do see classic Mg- in some of those pix. Use the MgSO4 as a foliar instead of root drench. 1/4tsp/gal + sticker/spreader (soap works well for this, just a few drops, nothing antimicrobial).

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Thank You Seamaiden

 

[BrianDirt]

Looks PH issues, some planst show more than one nute def. 9 weeks in the same pot is a long time and salts can build up. The first pics u see twisted leafs and in some of the last you see the multi nute def. Ph is more important than most think. Get a ph test kit the color drops work fine. Then get some water you ues for watering them and test it. Water at around 6.5 and then test the first runoff in your sauser, this will give you an idea of whats going on.

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Cheers BrianDirt, I've got some Paper Ph strips will check in a little while, was thinking about potting up, would you just pot up or give em a Flush? Or maybe just pot up and after checking Ph just give em Watering with Ph checked water? I never thought to check Ph of my Tap water(been first time had this problem) I do put my water into 2Ltr pop bottles and leave standing for least a couple of days(sposed to help with the chlorine, I think)

Thank you to both BrianDirt and Seamaiden..I have looked and asked on a couple of other Sites and Advice was Pots too Small and kill of the WW and start again....

(A) I have other Ladies in same size Pots looking Healthy(even some in Flowering doing well)
(B) I would rather save the WW than just give up

Peace

 

[BrianDirt]

Yeah my tap runs in the high 8 ph range, so if only giving water to the plants I check it then add ph down acid bace and it lowers the ph of the water. If adding nutes then test aftet added and you may need to bring the ph up, because the nutes had acid in it and made your ph in the low 5. So add some ph up and your back in the 6 to 6.5 is and the plants happy. The hard part to grow other strains at the same time is that they all may require differnt feening schedules. Gl

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Thanks BrianDirt (again) :) just been looking on FleaBay for some Ph down/up. Like a Newb (which I still am) even though I've been growing a year I'am still learning and reading up on things and trying things out..just not had to think about Ph until now....

1st was Bag Seed Grow (4oz from 4 Ladies which I was very happy with) now I've got some nice (I think so) 2x WhiteWidow x Skunk#1 and 2x Bomb Cherry Bomb, 1x Delicious Cotton Candy and 2x 00 Choco Skunk...when picking the Strains I went for ease of Grow and Flavour....

But of course each plants needs will be different...kinda forgot to take that into account!

Doh!

 

[woodsmaneh]

BD has most of it covered well done bro. I agree 95 percent.

One thing where people get into the weeds is when they try to treat for one deficient element. Some elements are mobile and some aren't in plants and some can't be mobile without enough of another element being present so it can't trans-locate. So what can happen is you see a mag issue but that is caused by low N, but you treat it as a Mag issue. See where I'm going with this. Most of the time if you have one issue you have another so using a good supplement like any of the Cal-mag foods will do wonders.

You have a bunch of issues happening in that room as BD stated

Heat
pH
Air Movement
Temp both day and night
RH
ferts lockout or lack off

By the way WW and Skunk like N a lot and love a PK booster.

The other thing I would do is get the cloth air pots I don't know how you can stand watering those pots, I fucking hate them so much I used them for target practice. I'm not surprised your having issues. I tried using them for about 9 months than gave up, all the water kept running out the holes by the top. Out doors the slugs love living under them.

 

[Cat Jockey]

If you have more than one issue occurring, things can get confusing. Further, a nutrient deficiency can occur, even though there are plenty available in the growing media.

30-40% Perlite/ 60-70% Soil and 3cm Layer of Clay Pebbles in the bottom of Pot.

What do you call soil? 'Cause what most farmers call soil, ain't. If you tell me that the 60-70% is mostly peat, I am going to tell you that you are hand watering hydroponic growing mofo, not a dirt farmer.

And need to use the appropriate pH range, which is lower than 97% of people here, or any other forum, will tell you, which causes more posts in this section than needs to be. Wrong pH gives you nute lockout.

No pouring or spraying anything right now. Flush rootzone (3 times the volume of the pot). Readminister nutes in proper pH range and be a little patient as yer girls recover

If it is peat, set your bottom nute pH about 5.2-5.3 as the lowest point. It will rise as the plant exchanges, which you want - to float a range. That is where you want to start. Don't go over 5.8-5.9, and don't spend to much time up in that high range. A good, proper base nute (just the Primary and Seondary nutes, not additives or other stuff), should be 5.1 to 5.3 when you first mix it anyway, for hydro. Water to at least 20% runoff. Flush mid-veg, right before their first flower nute feeding and once about 3 weeks before finish.

Anyone that wants to argue with that, have it, but I won't be participating.

Again, that is if your soil is actually mostly peat. On top of that with 30% perlite, you have a pretty airy blend - the airier, the more it acts like hydro as far as the rootzone is concerned.

If your soil isn't mostly peat, well this won't apply to your case.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Well CrazyCat72, if those two digits refer to what they usually do, then in addition to the Cat part, we share the same birth year.

People can still feel free to pick apart my posts and tell you I am full of shit, won't ruffle my feathers.

So, after seeing you thank me, even though I just jumped in, and said everyone is wrong and I am right and to listen to me, well, the only courteous thing to do now, for you showing that you have an open mind, willing to consider different theories, it is only fair that I least support my claim a bit, so I will.

I have been on the weed forums since the 90's, first grow I was involved with in that decade was a kickass 24" non CFL fluorescent grow of NL#5 using tin foil for reflection. I smile looking back. I still lament both the knowledge base and some of the 'ol timers that were lost after OverGrow went down, and then PlanetGanja (a good source of bucket growing info) followed.

So, this info I claim is not original. It comes from one little post I came across years ago from a respected member of the OG community. I took notice because I had been in a months long tail chase with Ca and pH issues with some bonsai mothers under a 27 watt CFL. Figured, what the hell, give his advice (about peat / perlite 'dirt' mixes) a shot. He also advocated a lower pH range, in general, than most. Shit worked.

So, these pics are from various gardens, various years. You will see 1 week rooted clones under T5's, veg under 400w, 1000w, 6000w 24 bucket RDWC, and plenty of 5 gallon buckets of either hand mixed peat/perlite/vermiculite or a good premix that comes from a nursery supplier - nothing I ever saw in a grow store or general public nursery).

Despite being in different gardens and years, they were all given the same base nute regime (adjusted in strength for the different lights, of course). All of them, all of the different systems, including the 'dirt' plants, that are not in soil, real soil. So you can see how I am not interested in arguing the point with anyone, as you will not see a Ca or Mg issue, nor a pH issue in those plants.

And you won't see a bottle of Cal/Mag, or any other form of the two to 'fix' a deficiency that is really a rootzone pH issue, anywhere in my growroom.

Small three light veg room that fed a (4) 4x4 Ebb & Flow Flower room, each tray had its own thowie and nutreint res. Cuttings rooted, were thrown under 2'x4' T5 for 1 week, up to the 3'x3' tray under a 400 watt for one week, into the 4x4 tray on left and under a thowie for last two weeks of veg. The way that garden cycled, I was harvesting one 4x4 tray from a thowie about every two weeks from that 4 light flower room this veg room fed:

 

[Cat Jockey]

These next few are from a 10,000 watt mother room I had. You will see probably over 50 strains in those pics. RWDC, E&F, and the good 'ol PPV that people wrongly call and treat like soil. All on the same pH, nute regime, etc., (obviously adjusted for strength, but same proportions of nutes in each growing media and same pH fed). That RWDC system had 24 mothers - every single one a different strain, yet no Ca, Mg or pH issues, eh? I had just given them a quick maintneance/shaping trim.:

That's a 4x4 E&B flow tray packed with 6" pots of mothers - all different strains, that are pretty small, a holding area, sorta. The buckets are all different strains as well, and handwatered the same nute regime.

 

[Cat Jockey]

One of many trays of fully rooted clones from mothers most would tell you is a bad pH range and way too low. I didn't have any problems fully rooting 100% of my clones pulled from all those different mothers in a very short period of time. Those are freshly rooted clones, not fresh cuttings just taken:

That clone closet, well I was always too chicken shit or too smart to take a picture of more than 999 plants in one place with my cell phone camera, but now that this particualr garden is long closed, I don't mind saying I packed them fuggin' shelves, tip top one and the back. I'm a knucklehead who has sat on 1500-2000 clones at one time.

I rest my case on that pH range and what I claimed about it for peat/perlite/vermiculite stuff. I would let a res hit 6.1 sometimes before change out, but not really any higher. pH Up and Down is a sure fire way to completely fuck up a fresh nute res - you won't find that shit in my growroom either.

I am a big fan of at least 30% perlite for a good airy mix. I suggest you keep it there, at least, on next batch. You can also buy a bag of peat and vermiculite to mix up your own. Some peat is pretty acidic, I have grown in peat with a base pH in the high 3's to low 4's. That is why I suggest 20% runoff every feed and the scheduled flushes (with something like Clearex - the only Botanicare product worth a shit). Easily deals with acidic peat for happy rootzone pH.

Best 'o luck.

Mic Drop ...

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm glad you've emphasized the points on soil vs soilless, and understanding of the media you're working with.

 

[Cat Jockey]

A couple last caveats before I forget;

• For all of my talk about how easy it is to run multiple strains in a high performance system (like vertically lit RWDC) with the proper proportion of nutrients, additives, etc. (I have grown, at least through veg with all of them, over 80 strains). Most Sativa/Indica hybrids you can run together, with stretch being the issue - but not nutes. There are some heavy Sativa dominant and real deal, rare pure Sativas that I tried my damndest with, but couldn't do it. Way too different and specific rootzoone needs, from nute proportions to pH sensitivity. But that is maybe 10% of the strains I have come across.
• On pH Down and Up and how easy it is to completely fuck up your res, and even if you don't, it still degrades it and causes an overall negative effect to your solution before it ever comes in contact with yer ladies feet. You 6.0+ pH hydro advocators get ready to gasp: If I ever mixed up a batch of nutes and some acidic additive dropped it below 5.0, I would use, as it. I have put in shit at 4.7. Granted, not the ideal range, not going to get stupendous growth in that range, but, with healthy plants, they will still exchange some, causing the pH to rise to 5.1 within 48 hours. That is less shock to the plants, than the pH adjuster is to your nutrient res, and after 7-8 days, the plants that started low but were quickly in, and finished in, the sweet spot range of a healthy nutrient solution, will have grown more than if they would have been put on a res that was fucked up the whole 7-8 days, versus just a bit low for 1-2 days but right where it needs to be for the next 6-7. Fug dat pH adjusting shit.

I'll set the Mic down lightly this time, since ya only get one Mic Drop and this post is just a stoner afterthought ...

 

[CrazyCatz72]

Thanks for ALL replies peeps...and yep 72 was A Looooong time ago..........

CaTz