Hey what the heck happened?????

[cheyenne]

This is hardly my 1st rodeo.....Went into the local toy (grow) store for some soil for for my new batch. Ive traditionally used BG and Ocean Forest and had great results. The shopkeeper talked me into going with a coco fiber based soil(less) mayan mix from aurora....WTF is up with this shit? I think ive narrowed it down to a Ph problem, and just adjusting my nute solution/water down isnt correcting. Looks like a major lock out happening here...whats the deal w this stuff? thanks

 

[cheyenne]

....So no one has any input on switching to a coco based material, and the differences in this growing material?

 

[CAPO]

I always had to rinse the ever loving piss outta CoCo....saw the lonely thread and thought I'd answer.lol...sorry I can't recommend another type of CoCo...as it's not my gig ATM.

peace

 

[jaybird]

when using coco...i also mix in a little soil...and a composted mixture...after making my soil ..i water it down to ensure there are no dry spots/or hot spots for my transplant....wet your plant before transplanting as well (i start giving my plants thrive alive two days before the transplant and follow it for next 2-3 days to help with shock)....the best coco that i have found would be SUNSHINE PRO JUST COIR ITS 100% organic...i have used the Alaskan Peat...or maybe it was Canadian peat..reguardless...it was very light weight, I found myself watering my girls more then the norm because it dries out entirely too fast ....giving you a wasp nest texture...no good....the less you soil packs down...the more root growth...the bigger the structure..bigger the budz...
aloha...be safe...and grow on
jaybird

 

[cheyenne]

Thanks guys....I was under the impression that i would need to amend this mix much....guess i was told wrong. I think i may transplant back to my normal mix and stick w what i know.

 

[Seamaiden]

I can't believe they sold you this stuff without telling you how it has to be handled. Coco locks onto calcium and magnesium, in a really big way. It can cause enough upset in those balances to cause problems with potassium uptake. You have to rinse some cocos, and have to precharge many cocos (there are some that come precharged, I haven't used those), and those that need it usually need to be charged with Cal-Mag (some will say in the realm of 20ml-30ml/gal).

pH is another huge issue with coco and must be watched closely. Keeping it in the 5.8-6.2 range, while tight, is necessary. If you stray, try not to stray too far too often, especially in the same direction.

Soil and soil microbes essentially 'buffer' from these problems, allow the plant's roots to maintain pH near zones as they do in soil, facilitate uptake of needed nutrients, that growing soilless does not allow. You can establish microbes in the rootzone of coco, but they don't always behave or perform in the same manner as a good soil mix would allow.

Make sense?

 

[cheyenne]

Oh jezuz, thanks seamaiden. That is exactly what im dealing with, Ca/Mg lockout showing signs of Potasium def. Recs on recitifying now that the damage is done? Continue foliar feed, bump Ca/Mg, but no standard nutes (maybe just N (dont waant to burn on the flip side of Ph)) and drop Ph (its sitting at about 8!) That sound reasonable? yeah makes total sense.

Pardon while i go wring a neck........

 

[cheyenne]

.....this reply is just to help me get to that magic 26 post number so my stuff just shows up.....(i hope the admins have a good sense of humor)....I wont be trouble....hehehe (shouldnt have smoked the cough this late....its like speed....think ill rename it GSD-Get Shit Done) hasta

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh jezuz, thanks seamaiden. That is exactly what im dealing with, Ca/Mg lockout showing signs of Potasium def. Recs on recitifying now that the damage is done? Continue foliar feed, bump Ca/Mg, but no standard nutes (maybe just N (dont waant to burn on the flip side of Ph)) and drop Ph (its sitting at about 8!) That sound reasonable? yeah makes total sense.

Pardon while i go wring a neck........

I'm still pretty new to coco, but I think a combination of foliar feeding Cal-Mag in order to stave off further progression, and a few really good soaks with more Cal-Mag. Otherwise, I'm thinking you may have to start over again, pull the plants from their pots, and properly charge the coco.

 

[cheyenne]

When you say it needs to be charged to the tune of 20-30ml gal, is that gal, of soil you speak of, and not water, que no?

 

[cheyenne]

Ok so heres what ive done. Last night i gave a heavy feeding of CalMag, super thrive and FF Beasty Bloom 0-50-30 to build up the Ca/Mg deficit and get some K into the girls. Ph'd down low because the runoff is sitting about .....hold yer breath .....8.....which is a bitch to get to drop because of the alkaline buffer. Today i transplanted from 2 ga bags to 5s using my old OF/BG/Perlite blend. Moved them under florescents so they are not trying to use all the energy theyd be getting from the HPS.....I just want them to chill and recover. Also upping the heat a bit to about 82 to increase transpiration, forcing nute uptake. This is per my Ph'd Agronomist friend...thank god for them right. Ill be posting updates as i see changes...not to be confused with becks best album Sea Change, but i digress.....Ciao.



Just wanted to thank the admins for clearing my posts and not having to wait. I will be on my best behavior!

 

[Seamaiden]

That's the problem I ran into when using unfiltered well water. My source is extremely hard and alkaline. When you use such source water, its alkalinity (minerals) build up in the coco, causing further problems.

When you say it needs to be charged to the tune of 20-30ml gal, is that gal, of soil you speak of, and not water, que no?

Es por agua, ni coco.

Sea Change is a fantastic album. I'll see ya round the bend.

As much as the wastefulness of reverse osmosis pisses me off, I've come to the conclusion that I must use it if I wish to continue using coco (or pure perlite). Otherwise, it's gonna have to be soil.

 

[lil miss lone]

This is hardly my 1st rodeo.....Went into the local toy (grow) store for some soil for for my new batch. Ive traditionally used BG and Ocean Forest and had great results. The shopkeeper talked me into going with a coco fiber based soil(less) mayan mix from aurora....WTF is up with this shit? I think ive narrowed it down to a Ph problem, and just adjusting my nute solution/water down isnt correcting. Looks like a major lock out happening here...whats the deal w this stuff? thanks[/QUOTE

You have to flush the heck out of coco, I've heard anyway. I've never tried using straight coco.

I use a 50/50 mix of soil and coco, and ph to 6.0.

~Missy

 

[cheyenne]

So it looks like things are stabilizing after thee transplant. Ill give another healthy dose of calmag w/ a bloom fert next watering and then back to the normal regiment. Cutting 8 trees in 10 days and hope these 24 are ready to flip then!

 

[Seamaiden]

If it's not happening fast enough giving them the Cal-Mag in the root zone, you might want to add a foliar application or two. I'm glad you've gotten the problem straightened out. I need more Cal-Mag m'self.

Do not cut out the Cal-Mag with these coco kids, always give it.

 

[cheyenne]

5ml gal seem sufficient for normal feeding? ill have to drop some ppm elsewhere, but thatll be ok. im concerned about lockup going the other way if always giving it esp since ive got plants in 2 gal of the coco soil transplanted into 5's of FFOF/BG....

 

[Seamaiden]

How much depends on a few things, but 5ml (1t) per gallon is a good place to start, and if they show they still need it you can always up the dose. Remember, too, you can also foliar feed the Cal-Mag (pay attention to time of day, early on in lights-on or late, when they think they're going to bed--those are the times stomata are open if I recollect).

The coco will always want to lock it up, so if it's in there it's going to make demands. And the soil will buffer what the coco does.

What's your water source? If you're using RO or RO mixed with tap (well or muni) then that plays a role in whether or not you should be adding Cal-Mag every feeding. For now I'd do it.

 

[cheyenne]

Im using straight RO water. Yeah things seem to be bouncing back quickly. greening out and new growth....Ill get this stuff dialed.

I was really liking the initial growth and then was like WTF!!! So glad i didnt lose this crop....Whats a bitch is this strain likes lots of Mg anyway so using a soil that binds it isnt going to jive w me....oh well i just go back to what i know... KISS ....

 

[jansjukebox]

I also find that fox farm nutes tend to be a little lacking in the cal-mag department. I amend my feeding with magi-cal. Good luck with the coco...I personally use pro-mix. I grow everything in it with out amending it with anything. I think it has just the right drainage out of the bag..but thats IMO.

 

[cheyenne]

Just wanted to update the status of these plants.
Everyone has rebounded very well since i added the increased Ca/Mg regiment, and is moving right along. It was probably for the better that this situation happened as really im getting phenomenal growth out of this mixture and they probably would have gotten out of control before i could get them into the flowering chamber. I mis-stated the mix i was using in my initial post. What it is, is Manna Mix Coco Soil from Vita Earth. Now that ive figured this stuff out, id highly recommend trying this soil if its available to you, just add, as pointed out by seamaiden, 20-30ml of Ca/Mg to your 1st couple watering cycles to boost the levels, and then add 5ml after at each watering.....or experiment with your own strains needs as YMMV.
root growth is absolutely exceptional as is vegitative growth....off the charts!
Puff out.....