Hid Vs Led - Best Thing I Have Ever Seen

OldManRiver · Jan 8, 2019

This video is incredible. The presenter is very knowledgeable, with tons of experience.

Admins: I posted this on the LED board first, thought it would reach more people here. Feel free to delete one or the other.

Some notes:

HPS puts out 50% of its energy in green/yellow light which is not well usable by plants.

40-50% greater efficiency of PAR lighting per watt for LED.

Also critiques PAR rating as being at best a better approximation of utility for growing than the lumens measure.

Sunlight is surprisingly not necessarily better than artificial, because of the narrow areas of spectrum that are actually used by plants.

Green light actually aides penetration.

Fascinating discussion on varying spectrum ratios on controlling and directing plant growth. Apparently only 5 to 10 yield advantage possible in weight. Trade off between weight and resin production. Blue favors resin/strength. Suggests 30% blue to 70% red. Says "Nutrients don't help" (of course, he's a light expert).

UVB addition greatly increased THC production. 25% to 32%, single strain. 33 microwatts/cm2 was optimal

DO NOT WANT TO WORK WITH UVB WITHOUT PROTECTION.

Volumetric theory of canopy management and light management. Reasons not to do SCROG.

This video is The Best Single Thing on weed growing I have ever seen. Major changes coming to my next indoor crop.

I now have to admit that I have likely been wrong on my beliefs about defoliating. I need a hug.

OldManRiver · Jan 8, 2019

UVB light vendor. https://hydrobuilder.com/grow-light...6kUfjJ4QdX43dQToiC6OU9x0UczzfaQ4aAmqeEALw_wcB

FatManatee · Jan 13, 2019

"Sunlight is surprisingly not necessarily better than artificial, because of the narrow areas of spectrum that are actually used by plants."

That's not what he said, he said that imitating sunlight in a tent is not useful, as there is too much green light that will not be used by the plants. Thus efficiency of power usage is not good if power is wasted to create the green spectrum.

Outdoors, the green light does no harm to the plants. On the contrary, as it penetrates through the plant, it will reduce shading and give more light to the bottom parts of the plant (like he said about HPS later on in the video).

tl;dr
Sun light = the best (depending on the time of year and geographical location)
Replicating sun light = not efficient way of using watts indoors

crimsonecho · Jan 13, 2019

OldManRiver said:
This video is incredible. The presenter is very knowledgeable, with tons of experience.

Admins: I posted this on the LED board first, thought it would reach more people here. Feel free to delete one or the other.

Some notes:

HPS puts out 50% of its energy in green/yellow light which is not well usable by plants.

40-50% greater efficiency of PAR lighting per watt for LED.

Also critiques PAR rating as being at best a better approximation of utility for growing than the lumens measure.

Sunlight is surprisingly not necessarily better than artificial, because of the narrow areas of spectrum that are actually used by plants.

Green light actually aides penetration.

Fascinating discussion on varying spectrum ratios on controlling and directing plant growth. Apparently only 5 to 10 yield advantage possible in weight. Trade off between weight and resin production. Blue favors resin/strength. Suggests 30% blue to 70% red. Says "Nutrients don't help" (of course, he's a light expert).

UVB addition greatly increased THC production. 25% to 32%, single strain. 33 microwatts/cm2 was optimal

DO NOT WANT TO WORK WITH UVB WITHOUT PROTECTION.

Volumetric theory of canopy management and light management. Reasons not to do SCROG.

This video is The Best Single Thing on weed growing I have ever seen. Major changes coming to my next indoor crop.

I now have to admit that I have likely been wrong on my beliefs about defoliating. I need a hug.

The part where he talks about leds being more efficent solely because of their spectrum, up until this point at least, confirms my reasoning. Thanks for sharing, its a good lecture.

Growster240 · Jan 13, 2019

Great video, thanks for posting.
A lot of it has been posted in smaller portions all around the web, but it was nice to have it all lined up in one place.

So what is the final calculated efficacy of a white COB, when everything tat he said is taken into consideration? And what do we really think of "burples"? There must be some kind of average sweet spot for B%/G%/R% when it comes to a fixed spectrum?

Mr.jiujitsu · Jan 13, 2019

I’m at 530 and thinking wow, having been involved in the plasma industry, there are plastics available from DuPont that would be incredible for the substrate... my electrical engineering side of My brain is lit at the moment. Thanks for the share!

OldManRiver · Jan 14, 2019

FatManatee said:
"Sunlight is surprisingly not necessarily better than artificial, because of the narrow areas of spectrum that are actually used by plants."

That's not what he said, he said that imitating sunlight in a tent is not useful, as there is too much green light that will not be used by the plants. Thus efficiency of power usage is not good if power is wasted to create the green spectrum.

Outdoors, the green light does no harm to the plants. On the contrary, as it penetrates through the plant, it will reduce shading and give more light to the bottom parts of the plant (like he said about HPS later on in the video).

tl;dr
Sun light = the best (depending on the time of year and geographical location)
Replicating sun light = not efficient way of using watts indoors

Fair enough, my notes were simply my own, not intended to replace the presenter's thoughts.

Dan789 · Jan 14, 2019

Loving my cob’s more and more, adding a new 4 Cree 200 watt 3500k (Rapid led kit) that I’m just assembling.
Thanks for posting @OldManRiver, props.

OldManRiver · Jan 15, 2019

Growster240 said:
And what do we really think of "burples"? There must be some kind of average sweet spot for B%/G%/R% when it comes to a fixed spectrum?

The point he made is that it depends on what you are seeking. Heavier red = more weight, heavier blue = more resin/thc with less weight. Since I grow for personal use, I know which way I'm going.

BTW, the last indoor crop I grew with blurples. Stretched like crazy, but was the most potent weed I've ever grown. Same strain grown outside (from seed, not cuts) was good, but not as impressive. Experiments to continue.

Dan789 · Jan 15, 2019

OldManRiver said:
The point he made is that it depends on what you are seeking. Heavier red = more weight, heavier blue = more resin/thc with less weight. Since I grow for personal use, I know which way I'm going.

BTW, the last indoor crop I grew with blurples. Stretched like crazy, but was the most potent weed I've ever grown. Same strain grown outside (from seed, not cuts) was good, but not as impressive. Experiments to continue.

One caveat for me is foregoing the need for protective glasses in the grow tents (area’s) I’m in the process of turning the page on my bluple lights...

Growster240 · Jan 15, 2019

OldManRiver said:
The point he made is that it depends on what you are seeking. Heavier red = more weight, heavier blue = more resin/thc with less weight. Since I grow for personal use, I know which way I'm going.

BTW, the last indoor crop I grew with blurples. Stretched like crazy, but was the most potent weed I've ever grown. Same strain grown outside (from seed, not cuts) was good, but not as impressive. Experiments to continue.

I just got stuck on the part that green light is important but 50% seems to be wasteful (might not recall word by word exactly what he said). Just thinking that COBs and white LEDs generally are pretty high on the green part of the spectrum, and while plants love getting full spectrum, some part of it may be a bit wasteful?

Nice! Do you have a spectrum test on your lamp? Would be interesting to see the ratios and also compare it to sunlight.

Freshone · Jan 15, 2019

OldManRiver said:
UVB light vendor. https://hydrobuilder.com/grow-light...6kUfjJ4QdX43dQToiC6OU9x0UczzfaQ4aAmqeEALw_wcB

This is the company you want to use if your going to supplement UVB,No one else even comes close.1/2 the price of california lightworks you posted and many times more UVB.

Solacure.com

3 balls · Jan 15, 2019

OldManRiver said:
This video is incredible. The presenter is very knowledgeable, with tons of experience.

Admins: I posted this on the LED board first, thought it would reach more people here. Feel free to delete one or the other.

Some notes:

HPS puts out 50% of its energy in green/yellow light which is not well usable by plants.

40-50% greater efficiency of PAR lighting per watt for LED.

Also critiques PAR rating as being at best a better approximation of utility for growing than the lumens measure.

Sunlight is surprisingly not necessarily better than artificial, because of the narrow areas of spectrum that are actually used by plants.

Green light actually aides penetration.

Fascinating discussion on varying spectrum ratios on controlling and directing plant growth. Apparently only 5 to 10 yield advantage possible in weight. Trade off between weight and resin production. Blue favors resin/strength. Suggests 30% blue to 70% red. Says "Nutrients don't help" (of course, he's a light expert).

UVB addition greatly increased THC production. 25% to 32%, single strain. 33 microwatts/cm2 was optimal

DO NOT WANT TO WORK WITH UVB WITHOUT PROTECTION.

Volumetric theory of canopy management and light management. Reasons not to do SCROG.

This video is The Best Single Thing on weed growing I have ever seen. Major changes coming to my next indoor crop.

I now have to admit that I have likely been wrong on my beliefs about defoliating. I need a hug.

Very informative video. I have little doubt LED will one day be what everybody uses but I don't see the nail going in the coffin just yet. Seems to me, anybody running more than a few lights is not going to spend triple per unit, especially considering the rate they are improving them. The best of the best available today will likely be so-so in 18 months.

Freshone · Jan 15, 2019

3 balls said:
Very informative video. I have little doubt LED will one day be what everybody uses but I don't see the nail going in the coffin just yet. Seems to me, anybody running more than a few lights is not going to spend triple per unit, especially considering the rate they are improving them. The best of the best available today will likely be so-so in 18 months.

I used to think the same,I laughed at LED users,but now i have a bunch of gavitas and 315s sitting in my shed,Ill make you a great deal if your interested,lol.

3 balls · Jan 15, 2019

If the cost of replacing was in the same ballpark, I'd start switching over now. The good old days are gone and recovering expenses takes a while.

Freshone · Jan 16, 2019

The cost of lights is nothing compared to the cost of the power to run the whole setup unless you live somewhere with 10 cent a KW power and no tiers.I was hoping for 30-40% with the new lights but im 50% easy so i say dont step over dollars to pick up dimes.I got my lights for about 800 each (HLG 550s and 600s) about double a regular light so i figure every month i got my money back on one so they have already paid for themselves.

MidwestToker · Jan 16, 2019

3 balls said:
If the cost of replacing was in the same ballpark, I'd start switching over now. The good old days are gone and recovering expenses takes a while.

If I can produce a pound out of the 300 watts of home built LED's that cost me say $350 to build. I've made the cost of the fixture plus the power to run it in one cycle to cover my investment in it even at $50 an ounce.

3 balls · Jan 16, 2019

Freshone said:
The cost of lights is nothing compared to the cost of the power to run the whole setup unless you live somewhere with 10 cent a KW power and no tiers.I was hoping for 30-40% with the new lights but im 50% easy so i say dont step over dollars to pick up dimes.I got my lights for about 800 each (HLG 550s and 600s) about double a regular light so i figure every month i got my money back on one so they have already paid for themselves.

I get what you're saying but when I think out the math on switching over, it goes like this. Say I'm paying $50 per month per 1000W DE HPS now, IF I can get the same results from LED at 600W, 60% of $50 is still $30. If I take another 10% of for reduced AC costs, I'm down to $25 savings per month per light. I would love to save that but it would take 2 1/2 years to get that $800 savings. I don't know much about LED's other than they seem to improve the technology really fast and frequently (reminds me of Iphones), which is why I think long before my power savings cover the cost of switching, the light will be an outdated dinosaur.

3 balls · Jan 16, 2019

MidwestToker said:
If I can produce a pound out of the 300 watts of home built LED's that cost me say $350 to build. I've made the cost of the fixture plus the power to run it in one cycle to cover my investment in it even at $50 an ounce.

If you're getting a lb out of 300W you are da man. If I was building a new room and had to buy new fixtures anyway, I would give LED a little more consideration.

Mytwhyt · Jan 16, 2019

Don't abandon the 315 watt cmh/lec just yet.. I got 26 oz from 2 SS315 watt cmh and 2 waterfarms.. That's just 6 oz short of 2 lbs.. 5 wks veg, 10 weeks flower after 12/12 flip..
300 watts of good/better led should be able to do a lb in a reasonable amount of time.. By reasonable, i mean in about 120 days from sprout..

Hid Vs Led - Best Thing I Have Ever Seen

Hid Vs Led - Best Thing I Have Ever Seen

OldManRiver

OldManRiver

FatManatee

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

Growster240

Mr.jiujitsu

OldManRiver

Dan789

OldManRiver

Dan789

Growster240

Freshone

3 balls

Freshone

3 balls

Freshone

MidwestToker

3 balls

3 balls

Mytwhyt

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