High Brix In Hydro? Thoughts, Facts, Ideas Etc..

I've been doing some research lately on brix levels, and the only real info I've found pertains to soil growers. My question(s) are/is 1) Can the same high brix levels be achieved in a dwc type system and its variants, coco, rock wool etc.. 2) From what I have gathered, it's not just a matter of 'carboloading' that affects the levels, but also trace minerals, more precisely sea minerals that contribute to the rise in brix. Am I totally off-base here? Or do the use of supplements such as sea minerals by yellow bottle, botanicares sweet, AN's Bud candy, and GH's Floranector, or even a bennie tea made with some azomite for trace minerals and Earth Juice Hi-Brix for sugars etc.. when used in either both the veg and flower stages- or simply flower for the sugars -actually result in an increase in brix? I'm planning on ordering a refractometer in the next 2-4 weeks and start playing around. But I am very interested what the farm fam have to say about this. And I apologize in advance if there is a nice and articulate thread here already, but I didn't find one-except for making a 'supersoil' or someone selling a combo set of items for your soil-honestly I can't remember if it was here or elsewhere at this point, my eyes aren't capable of focusing much more not to mention the zombie state I'm currently in lol. So anybody with EXPERIENCE, or some good links would be great, or hell just some ideas and thoughts on the subject for that matter. I hope this gains traction due to the number of hydro and soil-less growers out there, and the fact that every other plant seems to greatly benefit in many different ways from increased brix levels, why couldn't we (those in hydro set-ups) utilize some of the same principals ans ingredients so to say, to reach the same or even higher brix levels than those growing in soil. And I apologize if this is a nonsensical rant, I'm rather tired. I'll check back tomorrow to see how much word salad came out lol. Thanks Farmers! Oh, and I'll try and find the info I came across and set up links (if that’s allowed) ASAP.
 

leadsled

GrowRU
2,117
263
In addition to brix testing, You can also use sap ph to determine what element is lacking.
sapph.png

Few examples:
Below 6.4 lack of a cation, above 6.4 lack of an anion.
Since Potassium is mobile. We can also test the sap for potassium.
If potassium is less tha 10% of the value of the upper leaves. The plant is robbing K form itself and time to apply K.

Can be done for a conventional (hydro dwc rockwool etc) or organic/regenerative/biological/ecodynamic no till/what ever the fuck style grower.For some growers it can be the tail that wags the dog.

That way you can "ask the plant" what is needed and then make educated fertilizing decisions.
For example. Test brix, Do a foliar spray. Then test one hour later and see if brix was raised.
Will be posting more info on various websites as well as on the www.plantbrix.com website when launches.
Going to review and test different products to see how they work at raising brix.
I have experience using the meters. Also teach farmers how to use them. Amazing stuff.
Sap testing can help to see a potential problem 4-6 weeks before you get a visual indication of a plant nutritional issue.


Hope that helps.
 
Firstly, thank you guys for throwing up some really good info-and quickly as well. Second, I really want to jump in and start with some questions, as well as some other things I discovered recently, but I'm just dog ass tired. I am very grateful, and my interests have peaked even more concerning the sap ph testing, and can't wait to check out some more info on it. Leadsled, I'm very interested-and YES that helped big time-will be following your journey through the brix and sap testing and research. Is the website you linked your own, or are you contributing content? Either way I'm going to check it out in the morning, as well as look into some of the info you presented. Great stuff. And I am very interested to see where the research leads. Have many questions forming already, but need a few winks before it becomes coherent, and hopefully I haven't ranted or rather rambled on too much or been typing word salad lol. Again, thanks to both of you, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye out. Peace, talk in the morning.
 
Oh, and one last thing concerning the method of growing and brix. That did clear it up for me, was just unsure at the start as I had only heard the soil guys mention it. And obviously there would have to be slight changes in the forms of compounds used in soil, and the compounds or delivary method in something like Aero, or DWC. But thank you for clearing that up again. Until next time...
 

leadsled

GrowRU
2,117
263
Firstly, thank you guys for throwing up some really good info-and quickly as well. Second, I really want to jump in and start with some questions, as well as some other things I discovered recently, but I'm just dog ass tired. I am very grateful, and my interests have peaked even more concerning the sap ph testing, and can't wait to check out some more info on it. Leadsled, I'm very interested-and YES that helped big time-will be following your journey through the brix and sap testing and research. Is the website you linked your own, or are you contributing content? Either way I'm going to check it out in the morning, as well as look into some of the info you presented. Great stuff. And I am very interested to see where the research leads. Have many questions forming already, but need a few winks before it becomes coherent, and hopefully I haven't ranted or rather rambled on too much or been typing word salad lol. Again, thanks to both of you, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye out. Peace, talk in the morning.
Yes, I will not be the only one contributing content to the site. . The most advanced testing is going on in the Netherlands and not with cannabis plants.
Shame than people get the blinders on and get the FALSE impression that hydro is some miracle growing technique.
It is good for the hydro business and for people to make an excess of money off you.

Weak and sick plants will always need help, so then you are sold pesticides which make the problem worse.
More money for the dro shop.

The pesticides make the plant weaker, then when you use water soluble ions, the plant then has to use another 30% of its energy to convert the water soluble ions into a form it can use.

Nitrate makes plants grow fast but they are weak and sick with lots of water in the cells and the cell walls are thin. The free nitrates in the sap is a calling card for pests and diseases.

Look at the products for hydro. What are they based on. Nitrate. Many pesticides are either nitrate or chloride based. Calcium nitrate is used in the nutrients or other ions combined with nitrate.
Hard to increase the calcium without increasing the nitrate.


I worked with a hydro grower that was in denial of these facts. Hires me to fix the problem, but then wants to ignore the fact he can not get in a run without pests or diseases.

Consistently gets mold, loses whole rooms to seeded crops and yet thinks all this science is "books not real life".
While continue to fail until you wake up.
That is why you keep seeing soil mentioned. If you want to grow the highest grade crops it is not going to happen with your current methods.


Oh, and one last thing concerning the method of growing and brix. That did clear it up for me, was just unsure at the start as I had only heard the soil guys mention it. And obviously there would have to be slight changes in the forms of compounds used in soil, and the compounds or delivary method in something like Aero, or DWC. But thank you for clearing that up again. Until next time...
No, that is not entirely correct. You can use organic materials on a conventional crop but not vice versa.

DEFINITION: "conventional" grower --- one who uses *materials*
prohibited by organic certification programs (since by that criterion
alone (s)he can be denied certification).

1) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
some or all of the techniques commonly attributed to (but rarely
employed by) "organic" farmers. Such as good rotations, green manures,
compost, refugia for beneficial insects, etc, etc.

2) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
some or all of the slowly available mineral nutrients commonly
attributed to (but rarely employed in) "organic" production. Such as
rock phosphate, sul-po-mag, gypsum, etc. etc.

3) Combine 1 and 2 with judicious use of carefully selected chemical
fertilisers (such as ammonium sulphate, mono-ammonium phosphate,
potassium chloride and micronutrients) along with judicious use of
carefully selected chemical pesticides (such as Imidan, Roundup, and
assorted fungicides).

I would say that with such a system the conventional grower will
harvest a better *quality* product than the vast majority of organic
growers who, in their stubborn infatuation with materials issues, may
get it right about not using "chemicals" but generally miss the boat on
soil building, mineral nutrients, organic matter management, nitrogen
fixation, understanding the weed community .... and on and on.

If most organic growers would do what the industry publicity likes to
say they do (but too often don't), we wouldn't be having this
discussion. Conventional produce farmers are starting to figure this
one out, and if the organic people don't get their $#|^ together pretty
soon, they're going to wake up one spring and wonder where their
customers went.



 
1,699
263
Nice rant Leadsled.

Way too much to disagree with in one post... But I'll start by saying that Hydro really is a miracle way to grow.
 
I have to say real fast before I get my baby to sleep, is I'm very appreciative for the info thus far and hope to get some more of the community involved as to how one can build up brix levels, whether it be in soil, coco, dwc systems, etc.. But again, thanks everyone and sorry for the absence on my on post lol...life.
 
597
143
Did a bit of snooping. This is just put up as a fwiw.

Ok, so first (y'all prolly know) what is Brix?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix
"Degrees Brix (symbol °Bx) is the sugar content of an aqueous solution. One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by mass. If the solution contains dissolved solids other than pure sucrose, then the °Bx only approximates the dissolved solid content"

When using Brix with plant sap (or fruits), we are testing dissolved solids in addition to sucrose, so as considered with plants - We are measuring TSS or Total Soluble Solids. Then 1 degree brix correlates to 1% TSS.
TSS% + Water% + Acids% = 100% solution

What factors affect Brix?
http://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/HYG-1651
--"Variety selection and crop maturity, metabolism, and water status tend to have direct and often significant and immediate impacts on vegetable °Brix levels."
"In contrast,
--soil and crop nutrient status and environmental light and temperature levels appear to have more indirect and subtle effects on vegetable °Brix values."

....
"reduced water availability during fruit development can increase fruit soluble solids content but lower total fruit yield. So, growers must balance the opportunity to enhance the quality of their fruit with the potential to reduce the yield"

---I only found one area where primary focus for increasing brix in hydro systems and soilless are being researched and applied (with tomato's mainly but also some citrus). That is with increasing EC's and it's evidently a "thing".
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00886119/document
"Under high ECs, fruit size is inversely related to EC while the dry matter content of the fruit is linearly increased by the EC. The exact rate of yield decline varies with interactions between cultivars, environmental factors, composition of the nutrient solution, and crop management. According to different studies and growth conditions, salinities higher than 2.3–5.1 mS cm–1 result in an undesirable yield reduction, while ECs of 3.5–9.0 mS cm–1 improve tomato fruit quality. Manipulating the indoor climate such as humidity, temperature and ambient CO2 level may offset the negative effect of high salinity on yield and fruit quality"
....
"Thus, under saline conditions, both a higher concentration of sucrose in the leaves (higher activity of sucrose phosphate synthase, lower acid invertase activity) and a faster rate of starch synthesis in the immature fruit (higher activity of ADP-Glc-Ppase) may partially constitute a mechanism responsible for a higher sugar content in the mature fruit."

EC vs TSS.jpg


"Concentrations of dry matter, soluble solids, fructose, glucose, titratable acids, volatile compounds, minerals, carotene and vitamin C in fresh fruit increase with increasing salinity"
....
"Cuartero and Fernandez-Munoz [44] reported a 10.5% increase in total soluble solids per additional mS cm –1 above
2 mS cm –1"
...
"Nevertheless, very high ECs (12 mS cm –1) reduced the fruit content in sugars and acids [6] and thus, fruit flavour.
...
"Plants grown under conditions of salt stress have been reported to show a higher growth response to elevated CO2 than non-stressed plants. Recently, observed that high CO2 (1200 ppm) slightly increased fruit quality (total sugars, soluble solids) of tomato plants grown under high salinity (5.2 and 7.0 mS cm –1 ). These authors suggested for a salt tolerant tomato cultivar that a combined utilisation of high salinity and CO2 supplementation may enable the production of high-quality fruits without incurring all the inevitable yield losses associated with salt treatment."
....
"For soilless culture, the salinity increase can be achieved by augmenting the macronutrients (NO3, NH4,K, Ca, Mg, H2PO4, SO4) or by adding NaCl, KCl orCaCl2 in the nutrient solution."
...
"The use of NH4 as a nitrogen source can increase plant growth and fruit sugars content but decreases fruit size and marketable yield due to a reduction of calcium and magnesium absorption and an increase in the number of fruit affected by BER."
Another one, a dissertation, on EC and fruit quality with tomatos (hydro).
http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/195203/1/azu_etd_1911_sip1_m.pdf
"An increase of EC of influx nutrient solution up to 4.8 dSm -1 did not reduce the leaf photosynthesis, which supported a hypothesis that there is an optimum EC range for enhancing fruit quality without significant yield loss. A following experiment showed that the tomato fruit quality could be significantly enhanced when plants were grown under around 4.5 dSm-1 EC, in terms of total soluble solids (TSS) and lycopene concentration with no significant yield loss."

"High EC treatment of 4. 5 dSm-1, regardless of its application timing, enhanced TSS and sugar concentration in the juice and lycopene concentrations of the fruit. However, the delayed high EC treatment (application of high EC after 4 weeks of anthesis) showed less enhancement for TSS and sugar concentration."

"Leonardiet al . (2004) foundthat the TSSof tomato was increased linearly from 4.2 to 6.2% per every increase of EC by 1 dSm -1 within the range of 2.7 to 8.6 dSm-1. Cuartero and Fernandez-Munoz (1999) found that TSS of two commercial tomato cultivars increased 10.5% per dSm -1 when EC of nutrient solution was increased from 2.5 to 8.0 dS m -1
by adding NaCl to the nutrient solution."

"There are inconsistent results regarding whether the source of increasing EC affects fruit yield and flavor, either by adding NaCl or increasing the whole strength of nutrient solution. Adams (1991) found no difference of tomato fruit yield between the addition of major ions and the addition of NaCl to achieve 12.0 dSm -1 in his study, whereas Willumsen et al (1996) found the increased EC to 4.7 -4.8 dSm -1 by NaCl only decreased the yield and fruit size more than did the increased EC by adding other ions including K, N, Ca, Mg, P, and S."

"Lycopene concentration in tomato grown in the open field was reportedly increased by high EC fertigation treatment (4.4 dSm -1 ) or reducing the amount of irrigation water. When the EC of nutrient solution was increased from 0.5 to 4.4 dSm -1 by adding NaCl, the lycopene concentration in tomato fruit increased by 74%.
Similarly, when the EC of nutrient solution was increased from 2.3 (close to the EC used in commercial tomato greenhouse) to 4. 4 dSm -1, the lycopene concentration in tomato fruit increased by 23%"
Looking at VPD in relation to brix (rockwool slab hydro tomato's);
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222674348_High_vapour_pressure_deficit_influences_growth_transpiration_and_quality_of_tomato_fruits_Scientia_Horticulturae_84_285-296
"The study shows that during summer, as VPD increases from 1.6 to 2.2 kPa, effects can be observed both on tomato growth and quality characteristics."
..
"Under the higher VPD the content of soluble solids was higher, whereas the fresh weight per fruit and the water content were lower."
....
"A signifcant interaction waso bserved between VPD level and leaf removal. When more leaves were removed (leaf-),
the effects of vpd levels were less evident both on soluble solids and on water content."
....
"Our hypothesis was that, in these conditions, when more leaves were removed, less competition for water occurred between fruits and leaves."
....
"It seems that a mechanism involved in the response to high VPD would be water shortage and not an assimilate shortage at the fruit level, since the VPD has an effect on fruit fresh weight, but not on the accumulation of dry matter"


Notes with the above paper is tests were on fruits.
Also of note there's 2 tables that show the change in fresh weight and Brix with High or low VPD. High VPD (without leaf removal) increased brix from 15 - 20% while dropping fresh weight by 9 - 17%. In High VPD (with leaf removal) brix increase was only 11.5% while still dropping 17% fresh weight.
 
Last edited:
Very interesting subject :)

I first tested the brix level of my current hydro plant. Cannalope Haze in week 7 of flowering. Brix level is 5%.

Not that high but this plant is a survivor : I started in dwc but to high temp and starting of root rot, I've moved it to my EBB system which is more tolerant regarding water temp. But I probably fucked up a little bit in the moving, and she got totally stunted for 1 month (was in week 3 of veg)... I was wondering if she would ever come back again, but it was my only hope to make an harvest before summer starts, so I was just waiting that she would come back... She did after a month and all went super ok until for some reasons she got nitrogen toxicity (too much Golden Tree probably), but kind of ok... I'm not expecting a great yield for this harvest but at least I should have something for this summer :)

I'll make another test soon after starting flush, I'm curious to see if the brix level is gonna change.
 
960
143
In addition to brix testing, You can also use sap ph to determine what element is lacking.
View attachment 597521
Few examples:
Below 6.4 lack of a cation, above 6.4 lack of an anion.
Since Potassium is mobile. We can also test the sap for potassium.
If potassium is less tha 10% of the value of the upper leaves. The plant is robbing K form itself and time to apply K.

Can be done for a conventional (hydro dwc rockwool etc) or organic/regenerative/biological/ecodynamic no till/what ever the fuck style grower.For some growers it can be the tail that wags the dog.

That way you can "ask the plant" what is needed and then make educated fertilizing decisions.
For example. Test brix, Do a foliar spray. Then test one hour later and see if brix was raised.
Will be posting more info on various websites as well as on the www.plantbrix.com website when launches.
Going to review and test different products to see how they work at raising brix.
I have experience using the meters. Also teach farmers how to use them. Amazing stuff.
Sap testing can help to see a potential problem 4-6 weeks before you get a visual indication of a plant nutritional issue.


Hope that helps.
Mind if I ask the title of the book this image is from? It looks like something I should read.
 
Small update, after 3 days of flush with Clearex, Brix raised up to 12. Now I'm just using distilled water and brix is 8.
 
In addition to brix testing, You can also use sap ph to determine what element is lacking.
View attachment 597521
Few examples:
Below 6.4 lack of a cation, above 6.4 lack of an anion.
Since Potassium is mobile. We can also test the sap for potassium.
If potassium is less tha 10% of the value of the upper leaves. The plant is robbing K form itself and time to apply K.

Can be done for a conventional (hydro dwc rockwool etc) or organic/regenerative/biological/ecodynamic no till/what ever the fuck style grower.For some growers it can be the tail that wags the dog.

That way you can "ask the plant" what is needed and then make educated fertilizing decisions.
For example. Test brix, Do a foliar spray. Then test one hour later and see if brix was raised.
Will be posting more info on various websites as well as on the www.plantbrix.com website when launches.
Going to review and test different products to see how they work at raising brix.
I have experience using the meters. Also teach farmers how to use them. Amazing stuff.
Sap testing can help to see a potential problem 4-6 weeks before you get a visual indication of a plant nutritional issue.


Hope that helps.
So the SAP ph test actually tells the element percentage? That has exceptional uses and I'm surprised that more people aren't using them, and aren't using them in addition to the brix refractometers. VERY helpful info, and very appreciative. Going to order both soon.
 
Small update, after 3 days of flush with Clearex, Brix raised up to 12. Now I'm just using distilled water and brix is 8.
Interesting. I wonder what its pulling that would drop it like that. And I'd be very interested to see if after you harvest the numbers change again-or rather how they change. Thx for posting.
 
Yes, I will not be the only one contributing content to the site. . The most advanced testing is going on in the Netherlands and not with cannabis plants.
Shame than people get the blinders on and get the FALSE impression that hydro is some miracle growing technique.
It is good for the hydro business and for people to make an excess of money off you.

Weak and sick plants will always need help, so then you are sold pesticides which make the problem worse.
More money for the dro shop.

The pesticides make the plant weaker, then when you use water soluble ions, the plant then has to use another 30% of its energy to convert the water soluble ions into a form it can use.

Nitrate makes plants grow fast but they are weak and sick with lots of water in the cells and the cell walls are thin. The free nitrates in the sap is a calling card for pests and diseases.

Look at the products for hydro. What are they based on. Nitrate. Many pesticides are either nitrate or chloride based. Calcium nitrate is used in the nutrients or other ions combined with nitrate.
Hard to increase the calcium without increasing the nitrate.


I worked with a hydro grower that was in denial of these facts. Hires me to fix the problem, but then wants to ignore the fact he can not get in a run without pests or diseases.

Consistently gets mold, loses whole rooms to seeded crops and yet thinks all this science is "books not real life".
While continue to fail until you wake up.
That is why you keep seeing soil mentioned. If you want to grow the highest grade crops it is not going to happen with your current methods.



No, that is not entirely correct. You can use organic materials on a conventional crop but not vice versa.

DEFINITION: "conventional" grower --- one who uses *materials*
prohibited by organic certification programs (since by that criterion
alone (s)he can be denied certification).

1) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
some or all of the techniques commonly attributed to (but rarely
employed by) "organic" farmers. Such as good rotations, green manures,
compost, refugia for beneficial insects, etc, etc.

2) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
some or all of the slowly available mineral nutrients commonly
attributed to (but rarely employed in) "organic" production. Such as
rock phosphate, sul-po-mag, gypsum, etc. etc.

3) Combine 1 and 2 with judicious use of carefully selected chemical
fertilisers (such as ammonium sulphate, mono-ammonium phosphate,
potassium chloride and micronutrients) along with judicious use of
carefully selected chemical pesticides (such as Imidan, Roundup, and
assorted fungicides).

I would say that with such a system the conventional grower will
harvest a better *quality* product than the vast majority of organic
growers who, in their stubborn infatuation with materials issues, may
get it right about not using "chemicals" but generally miss the boat on
soil building, mineral nutrients, organic matter management, nitrogen
fixation, understanding the weed community .... and on and on.

If most organic growers would do what the industry publicity likes to
say they do (but too often don't), we wouldn't be having this
discussion. Conventional produce farmers are starting to figure this
one out, and if the organic people don't get their $#|^ together pretty
soon, they're going to wake up one spring and wonder where their
customers went.


Very interesting. I'm going to have to read up more. Thank you for taking the time to post.
 
Interesting. I wonder what its pulling that would drop it like that. And I'd be very interested to see if after you harvest the numbers change again-or rather how they change. Thx for posting.
Pure speculation, but my guess is that Clearex contains a lot of sugar, thus increasing brix level. Then switching to pure water only, plant is forced to use its stored sugar, thus droping the brix level. I might be totally wrong tho, I don't have much experience with brix yet.

Unfortunately, I forgot to check brix level just before cutting the plant, and then it was too late...

On my next grow I'll try to monitor the brix level at different stage and giving the plant different nutrients mix to see how the brix level evolve.
 
37
18
I finally joined this forum after many years trolling your content, lol. This is my first post here, so HELLO! I hope y'all don't mind me kicking a dead horse and expecting a ride but this topic HAS to be reinvigorated again! Correction, I have been shaking the dog shit out of this tree for about a week on 420 and RIU about this topic.

I mix all of my own nutes from salts, and I do not use any brand or blends, just individual salts mixed into concentrates that are drawn from in varying quantities to mix up reservoirs with very specific and intentional elemental target. I have my own custom micro nutrient mix that I base all of my feed schedules from, but I can change that as well. I have been slowly and incrementally dialing in better and better targets to give my plants exactly what they need while intending to never be too much. I've identified minor deficiencies, corrected the feed and did away with said deficiency, crossing them off one by one as I can identify them. All the whole while always scraping the interwebs for new information that will help me better dial in my feed when low and behold I stumble onto some Brix information and I quickly realize they've been doing what I am now doing, except they are all in dirt. I have and still am trying to ask them for advice, but there is a big disconnect because they have to plan for months while thinking of time release of elements that are not yet nutrients, whereas we only need to be concerned with 1 week and what will be available immediately. In soil, "pretty close" will get ya much closer than "pretty close" would get ya in hydro. That, and the evident contention.

Regardless, I followed my studies and they lead me to this page, most notably post #3 by leadsled and post #10 by MGRox. I got a refractometer and a Horiba PH meter for testing leaf sap. My Brix is 7 and sap is 6.1. I just yesterday received Calcium Carbonate and have re-tweaked my feed schedule to have higher Ca, K, less N than my previous chart. My recent studies also show that Mg is highly influential with the creation and movement of sugars so I gave it a bump as well. I am full steam ahead with this as I've been doing it anyways, the Brix stuff just gave me 2 other meters to test my theories and plants with.

I do hope I will get one or more replies. I do realize this thread is about 3 years old, but still, this topic is still both taboo and revolutionary. I feel my approach to hydro is mostly unlike most other hydro growers, so I believe I will be able to carry this over the finish line, if that's even possible. Here are my old feed charts that I had great results with and secondly my new chart that I'm now experiementing with. The latter is my first attempt at high brix hydro with elemental targeting. I also add a few organic acids and blends.

Full Grow Targets.JPG


High Brix Targets
High Brix Targets.JPG
 
I'm all about "brix", but it's just a term. Like Indica or Sativa. Since we can't use those terms anymore I guess we have to use "sugary" now for high Brix, to keep from confusing all the scientists trying to understand from the outside (rolls eyes).

Using the actual Brix index on Cannabis is pointless. The reading will cut in half when clouds roll in..

Solids... Nutes, sugars, starches, who knows what solids..

Cannabis resin is a resin, not a juice. The only valid Cannabis Brix meter is the tongue.. Last thing we need is people chasing solids in wet plant matter with no regard to what they are..
 

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