High Elevation Off Grid Dep Tunnels.

[Golden Zia]

Hello to all my fellow farmers!
I have been here for a bit, yet likely not someone many are familiar with.

My newest project should be a good opportunity for me to both contribute and receive great input from you all.

I am at 7500'+ elevation, off grid, no water well, haul and catch all water.
I do have a good geni to handle my power needs.
Planning for three tunnels that will be roughly 12'x40'
1.25" PVC frame materials, still getting zeroed in on film and black out materials.
I have used some reinforced film from FF for our high tunnels, it worked well. I am considering making my blackout covers from concrete blankets. Insulative, and no light leaks. Should be a reasonable option. But I haven't settled there just yet.
Currently the site is covered with trees, clear cutting this area will not only free up the physical space but will add a chunk of fire wood for next winter.
In this area of the high desert our primary challenges are wind, arid and cold temps.
Beds will be raised, made from reclaimed cedar fencing.
Home built soil, home supplied worms, will likely top dress for feeding as well.

Well that's a start point. Looking forward to all input.

 

[Bulldog420]

Cool beans. I am at 2500 and 3000, so I can't help with the cold issues. What time of year is this for? Planning a winter grow, or just getting ready for next spring? No input yet, but tagging along. Good luck.

 

[Golden Zia]

So planning for March 1st or sooner to place well rooted babies. Veg all of March and flip April 1st.

The subject of cold mitigation has many facets associated with it.
For simple broad strokes at the moment, I plan to establish a north wind break fence system. Thick tree population is helpful but simply not enough in this area.
I will also have a good West sided wind break.
I plan to insulate the black out cover material, I plan to have hoops and film in place before hard ground freeze occurres. Keep tunnels closed and super heat the soil within the tunnels.
Due to availability of geni. I will be supplying some heating inside tunnels as needed.

 

[Seamaiden]

For good information on dealing with growing in very cold weather in the GH, Eliot Coleman would be my go-to source. This is for construction and how to ensure you build a better setup for cold weather growing. For example, he uses high tunnels inside the greenhouse and sometimes adds a low tunnel or row covers under that. He has written that he's found he can shift his climate south by about 500 miles for every 'layer' of tunnel, greenhouse or row cover.

 

[Golden Zia]

Thank you Seamaiden!
Certainly nice to have you input.
I am familiar with layering and the employment of such techniques is an absolute up in my neck of the woods, at least a short period.
I've been growing here for many years, I simply have never ran an early harvest dep. project.
Very exciting to feel that newbie feeling again in some ways.

 

[Golden Zia]

I Got started with cutting trees to clear the site as needed.
I am hoping to get North wall/fence up this weekend.
So far we have been having very mild temps. for this time of year. Tonight and tomorrow that changes noticeably.
Expecting night temps in the mid twenties, day highs mid thirties... I have to make some serious progress in order to get my tunnels up and closed in, before I miss a good window of time to do so.
I'll start posting images once I get to construction phase.

 

[THELORAX802]

I thought hearing about a buried railcar storage car for growing was kool! This will have that beat im thinkin'!

 

[Golden Zia]

Ya, funny little story.
Back in 95, I decided to put my highly ambitious self to task on a remote location, subterranean, geni. powered grow op.
At that time I happened to have been the beneficiary of a ridiculous amount of building lumber.
So I rented a bobcat, picked and area easy to dig, and spent the next couple of months going for it! Dug out roughly a 20'x30'x 12' deep area and and separate smaller area to house a genset.
About the time I got most of tbe foundation completed, I came to realize I was completely out of my depths and should abandon the project before I wasted any more time or money.
At the time I was just barely 23 yr.old had a good solid understanding of construction... just not sub-grade structural engineering!

Today that pit is still there, no longer as far outta the way as it once was and filled in some due to erosion.

Fun to look back sometimes, even at our failures!

 

[NugMountain]

[QUOTE="Golden Zia, post: 1802747, member: 58868"Keep tunnels closed and super heat the soil within the tunnels.
.[/QUOTE]

Here is a pic of my southern facing barn...what do plan to do for heating, or what do you mean by " super heating" the soil? Thnx :)

 

[Golden Zia]

Good point to clarify on Big Mountain.

When I indicated "super heating" the soil, I meant the native ground soil that my beds will set upon.
By getting the hoops up, covered and closed, my intention is to keep the native soil within the tunnels from ever getting into a true state of freeze. That way come end of February I will fight less to maintain warmer temperatures inside the tunnels.
From the time I have the tunnels up I plan to operate them more or less as if they were actively supporting plants.
So that means covered with insulative blackout in the night, covered with green house film in the day. Sides and ends will remain closed during the day until I load with plants come end of February.

 

[Golden Zia]

Sorry Nug Mountain. Auto correct took over and I didn't proof read before I hit post.

 

[Golden Zia]

Nug Mountain, is that your dep tunnel?

 

[NugMountain]

Thanks for elaborating on super heat. I also now noticed that you have a good geni, I am guessing enough power to provide powered heat? Some use propane heat, but that is a moist heat, I've been deliberating on what heat source to use to get an earlier start as well... I don't live as high up, however I get some snow and a chit ton of rain, I'm coastal but right around lower snowline. My plan has been to heavily insulate my barn to create alot of excess heat from wood stove and vent that to tunnels. so,Yes. I have 2 10'*50' for lite Dep. . . I've thought about rocket stoves, but they require alot of wood feeding and from what I've seen, can have back draft problems even when installed properly. Water hold heat for a while, so maybe black drums with water that warm in the sun , and non sunny days warm them with a plumbed hot water line , but im reluctant to turn my woodstove in to a source of heating copper water line. I suppose I could just put small wood stoves in each row...also seen people do hot water lines in there soil, but i would have to be careful not to over water, the lines will condensate on the outside, but might be an option. however I'm trying to stay away from large generator. I just recently got internet access up my way and even though slow I've been able to do some research..here is a link I found quite interesting , http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Multimedia/Videos-from-the-Field/Thermal-Banking-Greenhouses.

Per your earlier message, I need to look in to concrete blankets. Thnx:)

 

[Golden Zia]

@NugMountain,
Thanks for the feed back.
So for heating, I will look to bank some solar gained heat in the soil mass of the beds during the early veg phase. This surface area of soil will of course become covered in foliage and then become sorta useless for capturing heat without direct sun exposure. But overall it will function well to supply warmer soil conditions for young roots.
I will low tunnel the beds with Ag type fabric on an as needed basis as well.

Additionally I will supply heat from plug in radiant heat units. The ones I have used in other indoor type spaces do not have a coil or exposed heating element that would be light emitting.
They will be plugged to an ECU as well.

I am unsure how regular or for how long I will need to utilize low row covers. The temperatures will dictate that.
As you mentioned, yes I have a good geni. As a result, I will also be adding HID for my extended lighting hours. These of course will add heat that I am either going to allow to build and then dissipate once lights go off. Unsure of what those high temps might look like so in case they get too high I will vent as needed through ECU

I have not had good success with wood heated growing spaces. Very difficult to manage and has too significant of temp swings (depending on structure of course)

No on propane. Mostly for the condensation factor.

Water in above grade containers as a heat sink is imho is a waste. In most cases I should say! The capture rate and dissipation rate are often at odds. Plus they take up alot of space.

 

[NugMountain]

Yep. Water takes up space for sure. I may end up upgrading generator. Having more power would give me more options. But like you, I am working on greenhouse infrastructure. Goin with 2 layers of plastic and then I'll observe the temperature. Got some of my materials. Slowly putting plan together. I may widen outer layer to 12 ft. Then pull Dep plastic on inside layer. This will keep my Dep plastic out of rain and snow. I'll post pics down the road as I install

 

[Golden Zia]

Yup, I'm gonna increase width of tunnels to 12' for sure.
I too have been giving thought to the issue of dealing with potential snow and rain on the dep cover.
We definitely can get heavy wet snow here in the spring months. Otherwise our snow is nice and dry!
Regardless I would like to avoid dealing with snow removal.
I am planning on situating my tunnels parallel to one another with only about two feet or so between tunnel exteriors. That said, if I have any real snow fall I would have a shit ton of snow shed landing between tunnels and trapping my dep covers if they were on the outside of the frames.
So, final design to be determined, but I'm feeling pretty solid on wanting to set dep covers inside the frames.

I'm also thinking about bed widths at the moment. Going back and fourth on the various pros and cons of various different widths. Single row or spread and double rows...

 

[Golden Zia]

Just a quick update.
Im on the verge of missing my window to get tunnels up before hard ground freeze.
Due to weather, holiday, and a couple other unexpected distractions progress has been slowed to zero.

Winds have been nuking to as much as 55 mph for over a week now. Day temps hanging out around thirties, nights in the low teens. Couple of snow falls but only a couple inches each.

North and West sided wind breaks are at least in place. Have the area where tunnels will be covered with concrete blankets to help prevent ground freeze.
It's hard enough being a one man band without the various obstacles, but I will prevail.

 

[NugMountain]

Yep. I hear ya. I have had a few days of sun but spent it insulating my house . I have the luxury of low chance of permafrost but the high winds and heavy rain has slowed my progress considerably. Thnx for update! One man band over here as well. However a Drywall jack is my second set of hands while in install sub ceilings. once I'm warmer il work on environment to keep plants warmer.:)

Just a quick update.
Im on the verge of missing my window to get tunnels up before hard ground freeze.
Due to weather, holiday, and a couple other unexpected distractions progress has been slowed to zero.

Winds have been nuking to as much as 55 mph for over a week now. Day temps hanging out around thirties, nights in the low teens. Couple of snow falls but only a couple inches each.

North and West sided wind breaks are at least in place. Have the area where tunnels will be covered with concrete blankets to help prevent ground freeze.
It's hard enough being a one man band without the various obstacles, but I will prevail.

 

[Shamanfarmer]

Love to see an update on this when you've made some progress. I'm also an off grid farmer with limited water capacity and hoping to do some diy/cheep light dep this season, so I'm very interested to see how you handle things!

 

[Golden Zia]

Update:
My plans shifted considerably. In fact I almost canned them all together.
I lost my younger brother in the beginning of December to the self checkout line. He was 40.
A cruel cocktail of alcohol, depression and lead.
Afterwards, I honestly felt devastated and not motivated to pursue this dep. project.
However, I'm still kicking and in fact sometime around mid March I gave myself a serious mental bitch slapping and decided to get the fuck up and keep going. Hora!
So I picked up where I left off and revised the project from its original plan.

Revised plan as follows:
One house, not three.
House is 14' x 40' x 11' at the high side.
I set the house up along an old mobile home and the built a raised deck system inside of the house, along the mobile home, to aid in the availability of natural light coming from the west.

Additionally, I decided to use half the space for a very small pheno hunt from last year's crossings. The rest of the space I dedicated to some Blue Dream cuts from a buddy.