Hope you Front Range folks are safe!

[fishwhistle]

Why the fuck should we subsidize anything?Subsidies are bullshit and fraught with people and corporations taking advantage,from farmers getting paid to NOT plant their fields to solar subsidies that end up paid to leasing companies who are bending the poor end user over.A better option would be to just change the building codes so that every new home built must support itself energywise and older ones must be updated upon sale,the cost is minimal in the long run and the end user saves much more than the cost.Im tired of subsidizing solar,farmers, corporations,egypt,africa and all the rest,instead cut my taxes by 75% and add a sheet of paper to my tax return full of little boxes you can check if you would like to donate a dollar to that particular cause,let the people decide.

 

[ttystikk]

Big Corporate Gov really does not give the regular people an option on what to drive now do they?

Same as for our electrical demands.

Solar and cleaner/safer means of electric power is low on the list in the US of A.

Just look at what Germany is doing. Why can't we?

Do a little more research; the Germans burn a lot of locally produced coal, and export more. The only time they don't burn a lot of coal is when they're buying excess nuclear generated electricity from France, as happens in the off season.

Yes, they are working hard at alternatives, but solar panels are not the answer in cloudy Germany, lol. I hope they keep looking for solutions- and until then, why not build great electric and alternative fuels cars? The world needs them, so why not make them as only German carmakers know how? There's a marriage of expertise and opportunity I'd like to test drive myself! Until then, I will keep lusting after a Tesla Model S.

 

[ttystikk]

Why the fuck should we subsidize anything?Subsidies are bullshit and fraught with people and corporations taking advantage,from farmers getting paid to NOT plant their fields to solar subsidies that end up paid to leasing companies who are bending the poor end user over.A better option would be to just change the building codes so that every new home built must support itself energywise and older ones must be updated upon sale,the cost is minimal in the long run and the end user saves much more than the cost.Im tired of subsidizing solar,farmers, corporations,egypt,africa and all the rest,instead cut my taxes by 75% and add a sheet of paper to my tax return full of little boxes you can check if you would like to donate a dollar to that particular cause,let the people decide.

Damn straight! Cut subsidies! Cut them right out- and watch prices rise. Offer raises and watch costs rise. It's as tricky as it is ultimately necessary.

 

[muir]

CDOT is saying Boulder Canyon will be closed indefinitely. The only ways east/west are Golden Gate and Sunshine, people are already close to fighting in Gold Hill from the 6000 plus cars a day coming thru.

 

[Seamaiden]

That will make the situation much better. Just fight it out.

Do a little more research; the Germans burn a lot of locally produced coal, and export more. The only time they don't burn a lot of coal is when they're buying excess nuclear generated electricity from France, as happens in the off season.

Yes, they are working hard at alternatives, but solar panels are not the answer in cloudy Germany, lol. I hope they keep looking for solutions- and until then, why not build great electric and alternative fuels cars? The world needs them, so why not make them as only German carmakers know how? There's a marriage of expertise and opportunity I'd like to test drive myself! Until then, I will keep lusting after a Tesla Model S.

I could have sworn I saw a show showing the extensive solar build-outs happening out there. Not to mention that our solar panels are German-made (with a 25yr warranty). :D

 

[Dopegeist]

Basically the Germans gov't gave out mortgages for building solar farms.

The German gov't, if you were under the plan, guaranteed to pay you (or have the electric company) X cents per kWh, for the next 25 or so years. With that the landowner could go to the bank and get the funds to put up Y acres of solar power...But yeah, there is no desert in Central Europe. Can get plenty cloudy.

So you saw a boom in German solar, but it isn't as much market driven as gov't driven...So you're depending on the Gov't to drive good, instead of people to drive good. Peril in both scenarios.

 

[sky high]

Subsidies have been around a long time. Think "Railroad". Those tracks wouldn't be there otherwise had the Gov't not made it happen... jus sayin'.....and that's just the start of things....

http://www.taxpayer.net/media-center/article/4-examples-of-corporate-welfare-in-action

 

[Seamaiden]

Basically the Germans gov't gave out mortgages for building solar farms.

The German gov't, if you were under the plan, guaranteed to pay you (or have the electric company) X cents per kWh, for the next 25 or so years. With that the landowner could go to the bank and get the funds to put up Y acres of solar power...But yeah, there is no desert in Central Europe. Can get plenty cloudy.

So you saw a boom in German solar, but it isn't as much market driven as gov't driven...So you're depending on the Gov't to drive good, instead of people to drive good. Peril in both scenarios.

As perilous as has gone down in Brazil, with their government-induced ethanol infrastructure? Who populates the government, zombies? (Don't answer that! ;) ) But, seriously...

You know, they say that you get more conservative as you get older, and I'm gettin' more hippie. We, humans, need governing in the first place or we'd just run amok (think: Gold Rush). Why not put that governing to good work making our lives and environment a little better, instead of a little worse?

Then again, maybe all they need in Germany is a little climate change and they'll become Europe's California. D'oh!

 

[ttystikk]

As perilous as has gone down in Brazil, with their government-induced ethanol infrastructure? Who populates the government, zombies? (Don't answer that! ;) ) But, seriously...

You know, they say that you get more conservative as you get older, and I'm gettin' more hippie. We, humans, need governing in the first place or we'd just run amok (think: Gold Rush). Why not put that governing to good work making our lives and environment a little better, instead of a little worse?

Then again, maybe all they need in Germany is a little climate change and they'll become Europe's California. D'oh!

You make far too much sense to have a future in politics.

'They' are aging Republicans who think a fascist society is an efficient one. When the youth vote was reliably progressive this theory made sense. Now, what's the opposite of 'why bother?'

Germany already has a (bankrupt) California- they call it 'Spain.'

 

[putembk]

Taking a break from trying to save the world and the politics that go with it. Raining here again today so doing all kinds of maintenance inside. Everything downstairs is all caught up after spending most of the morning down there. Everything has a place and they are all in it. Not a speck of dust or a bug to be found. Cleaner than Kleenex. Now doing some things upstairs that have needed repairs for a while and today is perfect for getting that done.
Garden outside is almost toast. Pulled the last of the tomatoes yesterday and am going to have to cover anything left.....gonna get the first killer frost of the season tonight.
Wife is busy making tomato soup, juice, paste, salsa........geesh a garden is a lot of work.

 

[Dopegeist]

We, humans, need governing in the first place or we'd just run amok (think: Gold Rush).

Humans have always sought out some form of governance. Whether it be: religious, Despot, or other. But where is that line? 0%, 50%, 100%. And then there are always the other humans who have always sought to govern. "It's good to be the king" Mel Brooks.

Why not put that governing to good work making our lives and environment a little better, instead of a little worse?

Did you watch "The Myth of the Robber Barons"? It's linked in post #80, page 4. I know it's long but the question is answered in detail there....
The cliff notes...
When the Gov't provides these goods and services as FREEDOMS to some in the populous, it can only do so at the expense of the FREEDOM of others.
So then we get into intro philosophy and the role of gov't.

But in reality, empires rise and empires fall...Yet all empires tend to fall for the same reason as the ones before them. Freedom seems to be a tricky thing to get right, because once you've assumed power, it becomes in your self-preservative interest to limit others' freedoms.

And I'll just say it, Sea. Democrats want people on food stamps, want people on gov't dependence, welfare...basically they want people to be poor more than the Republicans.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

was trying to find info on the floods in this thread, but its all solar panels and subsidies.

i am just getting back to reality and internet after these floods. i lost a lot, only managed to save a few moms and my outdoor garden. evacuation centers are no fun. i was in one of the hardest hit areas. hope everyone else faired well. i don't think my indoor garden will be fired up until at least december :-(

 

[putembk]

Sorry to hear about your loss redthumb. You are one of the few that has reported a loss. Most came out ok. Did your house and property survive? Sure has been a funny year, got another 1/2" yesterday. Last night was the first heavy frost/freeze and I lost what was left of the veggie garden. Now time to clean up and put a yard of barnyard mix down.
How long did you have to evacuate, and are you able to access with the road situation?

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

had about a week of evacuation. no road access for a long time. some property damage, but everything is still standing. will be a while before roads open and the lights come back on. i have friends that lost everything but the shirts on their back. Fema won't reimburse growers for equipment, and neither will homeowners insurance. years of work down the drain, gotta start over.

 

[Dopegeist]

Did the flood take your equipement? Or did it just flood the shit outta it?
With all the combined knowledge on this site, we'll open that shit up and get it running again.

But yeah, one reason I don't locate near the river. I don't like flash floods. It's more a fear of waking up, looking out my bedroom window as the trees go by that I don't like.

We get forest fires every year, but when the flash floods hit in Colorado, they do damage.

 

[sky high]

LOL...I'm in the forest next to the creek. Doubly fucked if the shit hit the fan here...but it is what it is and I finally fulfilled my dream of having a creek right out the door. If it's my time..it's my time....and I'm not scared of leavin' anymore so I'm sure not gonna let the "what ifs" rule my remaining days here. Can't help it the sound of a creek is my favorite sound in the entire world. I slept 8.5 hours last night for the first time in about 10 years even though I about froze us out with the window open....LOL. Liquid Quaalude.....:D

 

[Dopegeist]

But you've come to terms with reality of your situation....

Most people who build a house out of kindling in a forest haven't come to terms with reality. It's a big surprise to them when the fire rages through.

Besides the economics and thermal properties, fire is another reason I'm building with dirt and concrete.

 

[putembk]

LOL...I'm in the forest next to the creek. Doubly fucked if the shit hit the fan here...but it is what it is and I finally fulfilled my dream of having a creek right out the door. If it's my time..it's my time....and I'm not scared of leavin' anymore so I'm sure not gonna let the "what ifs" rule my remaining days here. Can't help it the sound of a creek is my favorite sound in the entire world. I slept 8.5 hours last night for the first time in about 10 years even though I about froze us out with the window open....LOL. Liquid Quaalude.....:D

Sounds like you are really content. I am happy for you sky, you deserve it.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

i'm nowhere near a river. people in Boulder county got flooded out that werent even near the river. sewer mains filled up and took out entire blocks of neighborhoods, houses that wernt even in the flood plains or river basins. people in drake, glen haven, hygene, pinewood, lyons, and jamestown have been through this before and all the old timers knew this was coming. build on the river and down in narrow canyons, and you will lose everything. but some people werent even anywhere near the rivers.

also, all the natural flowing undamed rivers had minor flooding at best. i would still live up poudre canyon anyday of my life, but all the damned (pun intended) rivers are trouble and will continue to cause problems as long as we choose to fight nature and hold back all that water. just like the 76 flood, hwy 34 and the big thompson watershed were the hardest hit areas. cuz us humans keep fuking with the natural order of things. rivers flood naturally, but a 20ft wall of water rushing down lefthand canyon are not nature, they are man made dams that breached.

they say its a 1000 year event, i'm willing to bet it will happen again in 30 or 40 years.

 

[fishwhistle]

JR,I am sorry for your loss but i am glad you and your family are safe,things can be replaced,the main thing is you are all ok,FW