Hortilux Eye Blue Low Output?

[Jimster]

Last season I bought a new Hortilux Eye Blue 1000w MH bulb, I think it was a 7500K. From my understanding and based on comments, it seemed to be the best bulb suited for these purposes. This season I bought a new 10000K bulb, which seemed MUCH brighter than the hortilux (in addition to being much "blue-er"). I measured the output from a few different angles and ended up with an avg of 5200 at plant top. I fired up the new bulb (can't remember the name...short term memory loss!) and saw over 7500 in the same locations. So...the Hortilux is considerably less illuminating than the new bulb. With most MH 1000 watt bulbs being between 90K and 110K lumens initially. The hortilux seems considerably less bright despite being used for 1 season during veg only.
Has anyone else noticed a lower output from a hortilux Eye Blue? I have a Plantmax 7500K bulb that I'm going to measure it against to see if it is my imagination. I noticed the Hortilux had a much shorter arc tube than any other bulb that I've used...maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I have used a hortilux 400 blue mh and a 600 blue (really an hps conversion bulb). The 400 did not work as well after only 5-6 months.

Even hortilux says to replace mh for average plant growth by 6 months.

I ditched the 600 as the 600 super hps was much better for flowering in my opinion.

 

[Jimster]

Has anyone else noticed a lower output from a hortilux Eye Blue? I have a Plantmax 7500K bulb that I'm going to measure it against to see if it is my imagination. I noticed the Hortilux had a much shorter arc tube than any other bulb that I've used...maybe that has something to do with it.

I tried the PlantMax and it was almost identical to the Ultra Sun 10K, while the Hortilux Eye Blue was about 75% of the brightness of the other two. Is this normal for Hortilux?

***UPDATE***

I looked up the specs o the Eye Blue Hortilux and saw it was only 80K lumens initially. Just about every other bulb out there is 115K lumens initially, so it is about 20% less bright than most bulbs. The addition of UV seems to be their main claim to fame, along with one of the most similar light profiles of the sun.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I tried the PlantMax and it was almost identical to the Ultra Sun 10K, while the Hortilux Eye Blue was about 75% of the brightness of the other two. Is this normal for Hortilux?

Dont think you can compare visual brightness because the 10k bulbs are mostly blue and the hortilux has a full balanced spectrum with equal red to blue and some far red.

The color temp is. 5500k. They are very different spectrums.

 

[Jimster]

Dont think you can compare visual brightness because the 10k bulbs are mostly blue and the hortilux has a full balanced spectrum with equal red to blue and some far red.

The color temp is. 5500k. They are very different spectrums.

This was measured using a photometer, which shouldn't be influenced by the spectra (hopefully!) I initially thought it wasn't as bright as it should be, after living with these lights for decades. I finally had to break out a cheap photometer to quantify it. Then, when I looked at the website, I saw that it was only 4/5 the initial lumens than most MH bulbs. The Hortilux site mentions UV, but that would need to be using a special non UV blocking glass. I'd love to have a discriminating photometer, but they are pretty pricey for my needs.

 

[MIMedGrower]

This was measured using a photometer, which shouldn't be influenced by the spectra (hopefully!) I initially thought it wasn't as bright as it should be, after living with these lights for decades. I finally had to break out a cheap photometer to quantify it. Then, when I looked at the website, I saw that it was only 4/5 the initial lumens than most MH bulbs. The Hortilux site mentions UV, but that would need to be using a special non UV blocking glass. I'd love to have a discriminating photometer, but they are pretty pricey for my needs.

Problem is lumen meters are tuned to the human visual spectrum and par meters only measure certain wavelengths.

Neither accurately measures the total output.

Unless you checked the reading when new and compare it to now you dont really have any accurate measure between bulbs.

 

[Jimster]

Unless you checked the reading when new and compare it to now you dont really have any accurate measure between bulbs.

Sorry...I couldn't think of the PAR photometer's name...which is why I mentioned a discriminating photometer, which measures the levels of different light frequencies. Blame it on old age and a brain fart! It was noticibly dimmer than the other bulbs. Brightness is relative to the eye's sensitivity to it, but the difference between a 7500 and 10K bulb aren't too much different and you could really tell the difference. I replaced it with a similar temp bulb (7500k) and you could really see a difference...I just thought my eyes were getting used to them. I love their spectrums (Blue Hortilux), but at 20% or less of output (as stated on their site) I don't know if it is the way to go or not. I had good results using it last operation, but looking back, the plants getting most of their light from this bulb, had a lower yield than similar clones grown under a brighter bulb. It's hard to tell for certain as a HPS was partially used for finishing.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Sorry...I couldn't think of the PAR photometer's name...which is why I mentioned a discriminating photometer, which measures the levels of different light frequencies. Blame it on old age and a brain fart! It was noticibly dimmer than the other bulbs. Brightness is relative to the eye's sensitivity to it, but the difference between a 7500 and 10K bulb aren't too much different and you could really tell the difference. I replaced it with a similar temp bulb (7500k) and you could really see a difference...I just thought my eyes were getting used to them. I love their spectrums (Blue Hortilux), but at 20% or less of output (as stated on their site) I don't know if it is the way to go or not. I had good results using it last operation, but looking back, the plants getting most of their light from this bulb, had a lower yield than similar clones grown under a brighter bulb. It's hard to tell for certain as a HPS was partially used for finishing.

I knew what you meant by disciminating photometer. I sure wasnt judging i forget names all the time. I just wanted to say both meters are not very accurate way of knowing how much usable plant light is getting out. Even par meters average all the different spectrums into one number. But all the wavelengths are not equal for plant growth.

The blue is 5500k which is far from a 10k finishing bulb or a 7500k both have little red. They are not comparable spectrums. And the temp ratings are not consistant company to company. The 315 cmh has a 3200k temp but a 95cri. For example. You cant tell much by the temp stated anymore.

And im not disputing the bulbs look dim. You would know from experience.

How long did you run the horty in veg?

I saw reduced plant growth and health at 5 months on my blue mh and for comparison i get 9 from a super hps.

And i got 30% less yield from the 600 blue and the 315 cmh 3100k than the super hps 600. Also leafier shorter plants and fluffier buds. Especially the lowers.

Red leaning spectrums are much better for flowering than full or blue leaning in my opinion.

I do use more blue for veg. 6500k t-5 tubes. To keep plants shorter and grow more foliage in veg. But in 12/12 i want stretch and branching and bud sites.

If i go to led i will likely stay at 3000k to 3500k depending on what is available and what the spectrums look like. I will want strong red peak.

Hope any of this info helps. :-)

 

[PharmHand]

The shorter the wavelength the bluer the light appears to our eyes. Shorter wavelength photons possess more energy thus requiring more energy to be produced which is why the horti puts out less lumens. Also standard mh are only good for about 6months of flowering (as said above)on average before the diminished output makes them not worth running. In veg, being 18h, you’re probably only good for about 4months hours wise. Hence the allure of the cmh

 

[Jimster]

The bluer 10k bulb has 115000 initial lumens VS the Hortilux 7500k's 80000 initial lumens, when it should be the opposite of the hortilux, since it has more blue in it's spectrum. The 35000 lumen difference is pretty significant, even though the hortilux has maybe 8 weeks tops of use on it. The Hortilux has better CRI, but I don't know if it really makes much difference in the PAR values for the plants. I use a 5500k or higher bulb(s) for veg, usually a MS1000 and a 7500 or 10K mh for the 8-10 week flowering period
For finishing, my best results, by far, came from a combination of a MS1000 (with extra reds) combined with a 1000w HPS. I guess the Hortilux isn't as efficient as the others, although the arc length is shorter than the other bulbs I have tried. I have had a lot of success with using the MS1000 for the entire grow, from start to finish but using a HPS in place of a MH helped considerably in terms of yield.

 

[MIMedGrower]

The bluer 10k bulb has 115000 initial lumens VS the Hortilux 7500k's 80000 initial lumens, when it should be the opposite of the hortilux, since it has more blue in it's spectrum. The 35000 lumen difference is pretty significant, even though the hortilux has maybe 8 weeks tops of use on it. The Hortilux has better CRI, but I don't know if it really makes much difference in the PAR values for the plants. I use a 5500k or higher bulb(s) for veg, usually a MS1000 and a 7500 or 10K mh for the 8-10 week flowering period
For finishing, my best results, by far, came from a combination of a MS1000 (with extra reds) combined with a 1000w HPS. I guess the Hortilux isn't as efficient as the others, although the arc length is shorter than the other bulbs I have tried. I have had a lot of success with using the MS1000 for the entire grow, from start to finish but using a HPS in place of a MH helped considerably in terms of yield.

I agree. I like to run 2 hps to 1 full spectrum style mh or conversion bulb for best results. Or now I have a sun system 315 lec vertical open remote reflector setup.

Im going to run it in a gorilla shorty 4x8 but have not decided what to run with it yet. Going in the still very cold basement when it warms up a bit.

I dont know why hortilux has low lumen numbers. But i have watched videos they have that talk about it.

 

[Jimster]

I agree. I like to run 2 hps to 1 full spectrum style mh or conversion bulb for best results.
I dont know why hortilux has low lumen numbers. But i have watched videos they have that talk about it.

With a magnetic ballast, which is what I use, it limits the current that the bulb can get, and the arc is a short as far as the electricity sees it... and once the bulb is struck, it would quickly runaway and taking as much current as possible before something fails or a breaker trips...this is basically what a ballast prevents/does. I never realized it limited the current...I just thought it jacked up the voltage (which it also does). The only reasons that I can really come up with for the lower output are the shorter arc tube, since the amount of energy is the same, then maybe the smaller area of light emission explains the lower output of the bulb OR the mix inside the tube runs less efficiently to maintain their nearly flat color output. Or maybe it's a little of both. I'm going to see if I notice a difference in the plants after a few days using the 110k initial lumen bulb

 

[PharmHand]

No matter the brand ,they’re all working with the same 1000w input. Hortilux is a leader in horticultural lighting, I doubt their bulb just wastes a bunch of energy. My guess would be the energy isn’t wasted it’s just distributed differently since it’s a very FULL spectrum as opposed to the 10ks blue PEAK in the spectrum. The kelvin rating comes from what our eyes perceive on average, in the case of the 10k- blue , while the Hort blue has a very full spectrum nearly matching the suns (high cri ). Different gasses in the arc tube result in different colors displayed, it’s likely certain gases require more electricity than others to ignite. So if you want that full spectrum in a STANDARD mh you have to give up some overall lumens? Guessing

This may be lost on some haha but it’s kinda like a video game where you’re creating your own character and you’ve got a certain amount of points to distribute between all the different attributes. The hort blue is well rounded while the 10k has all its points on blue. If you really wanna know the answer call hortilux. They are a fantastic company with great customer service and happy employees. They’re made in the us and Japan so their quality and consistency is much higher than the Chinese bulbs. Those plantmax are crap imo. We once changed out a facility from Philips HPS SEs ,since they were spent, to plantmax HPS and out of a couple 100 at least 15 died in the first week


I’ve used the hort super HPS bulbs since they were released in the late 90s early 2k, 1000s of em. Their super HPS was a game changer and held the position of the best HPS bulb for over a decade until the de’s came out. In fact ,Gavitas original goal in designing the 1k de was to make a bulb/fixture that out performed the super HPS. All that said I personally have only purchased the hort blues one time lol. They’re just too expensive for what they are and how long they last. I too used to mess around w finishing bulbs: hort blue, solistek, plantmax, actinics lighting in 7k,10k, 20k etc. It honestly doesn’t make much difference imo.

But seriously tho, call or email hortilux, they’re a great company. Here’s their uv values they sent me years ago

 

[Jimster]

No matter the brand ,they’re all working with the same 1000w input. Hortilux is a leader in horticultural lighting, I doubt their bulb just wastes a bunch of energy. My guess would be the energy isn’t wasted it’s just distributed differently since it’s a very FULL spectrum as opposed to the 10ks blue PEAK in the spectrum. The kelvin rating comes from what our eyes perceive on average, in the case of the 10k- blue , while the Hort blue has a very full spectrum nearly matching the suns (high cri ). Different gasses in the arc tube result in different colors displayed, it’s likely certain gases require more electricity than others to ignite. So if you want that full spectrum in a STANDARD mh you have to give up some overall lumens? Guessing

The spectra of the Hortilux is quite flat compared to most, which is no doubt more useful than just a few specific peaks. When I mentioned inefficiency, I was meaning to say that the mix inside the tube necessitates a less efficient conversion to light output, not a purposely engineered bulb to be less efficient. I think we both agree but by different languages!
For decades, I always used Sylvania MS1000 bulbs with great results, although they used to cost over $100 each, years ago. I started trying some different bulbs, manufacturers, and footprints, hence the Plantmax, UltraSun, Hortilux, and a bunch of others. I never really had any problems at all, although I'm only using a magnetic ballast from 1979. Prices have dropped except for some brands, so I've experimented a little. Truthfully, I don't really see too much difference in results, with the exception of using a combination of HPS and a red enhanced MH. The combination helped considerably, probably increasing yield 15-25%.