[Buzzy12]

At what stage of growth would you say is the best time to schwaz? How many times should it be done?

I think the best time to do the major defoliations a.k.a. schwazzing, are the last day of Veg and Day 21 of Flower. Take just about every single leaf off except the leaves on the top two nodes. Flip the lights to 12/12 after the first major defoliation which gives them the extra rest and starts to trigger the flowering hormones. It seems to me the added stress of taking that many leaves off and initiating the Flower cycle that night jumpstarts the production of flower. The plants will bounce back immediately. The plants will fill in and depending on the strain, in 5-7 days looks like you didn't take a single leaf off. The plants will continue to produce a lot of leaves through weeks 2 and 3 and that's where the Day 21 major defoliation comes in. Do the same exact thing that was done on the last day of Veg. The plants won't produce too many more leaves after that. The foliage will fill in a bit in that week 4, but not too many new leaves. More of the energy will be put into the valuable bud sites.

The roots feed the plant. Part of the reason why lollipopping works is similar to major defoliations. There's less wasteful foliage for the water/nutrients from the medium to be sent to the plant cells to grow the more valuable flower sites. The roots do not get damaged and can still send the same amount of water/nutrients up the xylem. It does make sense if you think about it. Cannabis responds really well to stress, in my opinion it thrives.

 

[Buzzy12]

Those DE lights are great! I've had great success with DE's! Only issue is heat and cost to run.........

LED lights have come so far in technology that at this point, it makes no sense to invest in HPS DE lights or Metal Halides. Old technology that can't compete with the efficiency of LED lights.

 

[TSD]

@Buzzy12 I'm not against defoliation full stop, that just seems like it can't possibly be good lol... Though yours seem to have much more leaves left than any other examples of schwazzing I've seen. I do plenty if defol myself, I know how fast they pop back and the stress of a haircut always gives them a boost. I'll have to do it for myself someday and see. I go the shave the legs and remove sucker branches route usually, leave most of my leaves and remove them if they start to look sickly and old or if too many critters have had a taste (I start inside then go outdoors and aim for organic, so the bugs and I have a love hate relationship lol)

 

[Buzzy12]

For the grow op, we literally took every single leaf off except the leaves at the top two nodes of every branch. Those plants are also huge. It was not a very well managed grow op and usually plants would get 12-16 weeks of Veg so there are still a ton of leaves left. Usually had 2-3 people per plant and ladders were needed and it still took 30-45 mins per plant depending on the strain. I don't know if it's the best idea for outdoors plants, never seen that done, but at the same time, I think it could possibly work. It would certainly help with one of the most common outdoor problems, powdery mildew.

For my plants, I didn't go quite as extreme and they benefited tremendously. I'm sold on it and it's part of the routine every grow moving forward until I see a reason to change it. I think it's at least worth a shot. As long as the plants are healthy they can handle it no problem. Obviously it's not smart to do this to unhealthy plants. Minor, strategic defoliations to help get better airflow and light penetration would be more beneficial for not so healthy plants.

 

[TSD]

For the grow op, we literally took every single leaf off except the leaves at the top two nodes of every branch. Those plants are also huge. It was not a very well managed grow op and usually plants would get 12-16 weeks of Veg so there are still a ton of leaves left. Usually had 2-3 people per plant and ladders were needed and it still took 30-45 mins per plant depending on the strain. I don't know if it's the best idea for outdoors plants, never seen that done, but at the same time, I think it could possibly work. It would certainly help with one of the most common outdoor problems, powdery mildew.

For my plants, I didn't go quite as extreme and they benefited tremendously. I'm sold on it and it's part of the routine every grow moving forward until I see a reason to change it. I think it's at least worth a shot. As long as the plants are healthy they can handle it no problem. Obviously it's not smart to do this to unhealthy plants. Minor, strategic defoliations to help get better airflow and light penetration would be more beneficial for not so healthy plants.

I did a scrog outside this year to stay more incognito and have more control. Keeping them spread out and even with it clean below the scrog was a game changer for me. I battle PM and botrytis EVERY year. I was super diligent this year and basically didn't have any of either on my scrogged plants, a very few lower leaves on my big girl got pm near the very end, but I just removed it and it didn't spread. I wash my buds anyway... but yeah, keeping airflow is a MUST for me or I'm doomed and outdoor gets sooo many leaves and tiny branches, I just have to defoliate. Having the scrog so I could see everything, all the buds were similar sizes... it was just way better than my forest of mayhem and battling aphids and every other pest known to man last year. I almost gave up on outdoor after that one, but I just love it the best lol. So this year I busted ass and it paid off. Well I busted ass last year too... but went on the offensive this year, smarter not harder lol.

 

[RootsRuler]

I'm liking this more and more, especially hearing it from a reliable source.

One last question. Through your experience I'm getting a better sense of why this is working but am starting to formulate a different overall scheme in regards to pruning. Does cultivar matter in regards to degree of Schwaz?

 

[Buzzy12]

I'm liking this more and more, especially hearing it from a reliable source.

One last question. Through your experience I'm getting a better sense of why this is working but am starting to formulate a different overall scheme in regards to pruning. Does cultivar matter in regards to degree of Schwaz?

It doesn't seem like the strain matters to me. I've seen it work on a pretty wide range of cultivars. Over 20 different strains were at the grow op, got to over 30 by the time I left. My favorite strains they had were M.A.C., Mimosa, Orange Daquiri, Wedding Cake, and Platinum Punch. My Colombian Miracle plants thrived from it.

 

[RootsRuler]

It doesn't seem like the strain matters to me. I've seen it work on a pretty wide range of cultivars. Over 20 different strains were at the grow op, got to over 30 by the time I left. My favorite strains they had were M.A.C., Mimosa, Orange Daquiri, Wedding Cake, and Platinum Punch. My Colombian Miracle plants thrived from it.

I lied. Another question.

Conventional wisdom would say that if you remove the food factories you're going to starve the plant or it's ability to make food until it grows more food factories. Would this not take energy away from flower production having to grow new leaves? I realize that leaf maintenance takes a good amount of energy that the plant could be using for flower production but regrowth seems to be a much more energy intensive process than leaf maintenance.

 

[Buzzy12]

Conventional wisdom would say that if you remove the food factories you're going to starve the plant or it's ability to make food until it grows more food factories. Would this not take energy away from flower production having to grow new leaves? I realize that leaf maintenance takes a good amount of energy that the plant could be using for flower production but regrowth seems to be a much more energy intensive process than leaf maintenance.

Yes conventional wisdom would say that. Feeding the plants properly is important to help insure they recover properly. It is a high risk/high reward type of thing in my opinion. With that said, I haven't seen any negative effects from it, only positive.

The best thought I can put into your head is the roots are not being affected. The roots are not damaged from the major defoliations. You take a lot of the areas of the plants that take up nutrients and water (big fan leaves in particular). There's less of those sites, but still the same amount of water/nutrients being sent up the plant. You gotta try it for yourself to really see the benefits buddy. I'm already thinking my next crop after this run is done I'l be doing a side by side with clones to prove the real benefits.

Yes, part of this makes no sense at all. Taking all of those solar panels off can't possibly be a good thing, right? Not from what I've seen. It just sends more energy to where we want it. It's all about the flowers, I've never met anybody that wants to pay for a big fan leaf...

 

[RootsRuler]

Yes conventional wisdom would say that. Feeding the plants properly is important to help insure they recover properly. It is a high risk/high reward type of thing in my opinion. With that said, I haven't seen any negative effects from it, only positive.

The best thought I can put into your head is the roots are not being affected. The roots are not damaged from the major defoliations. You take a lot of the areas of the plants that take up nutrients and water (big fan leaves in particular). There's less of those sites, but still the same amount of water/nutrients being sent up the plant. You gotta try it for yourself to really see the benefits buddy. I'm already thinking my next crop after this run is done I'l be doing a side by side with clones to prove the real benefits.

Yes, part of this makes no sense at all. Taking all of those solar panels off can't possibly be a good thing, right? Not from what I've seen. It just sends more energy to where we want it. It's all about the flowers, I've never met anybody that wants to pay for a big fan leaf...

LOL! I was too embarrassed to put up the same thought you had as I thought it was too out there. I agree that perhaps the reason why this seems to work is because since the plants have a reliable food source at root level they don't need to draw from the leaf reservoir. Removing these leaves relieves the plant of having to spend the energy to maintain leaves in the short time they'll be in flower and will direct that energy towards flower production. Anecdotal theorizing at best but that's the best explanation I can come up with as to why this works.