How California LE determines maturity of a plant

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leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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Lots of good info here. Many time le do not even know the laws. This guy may be worth a try to contact him for more backup and advice.
Court Qualified Cannabis Expert Witness/ Consultant. Chris Conrad is qualified as an expert in cannabis cultivation, sex, genetics, cloning, crop yields, preparation, smell, medical use, personal use, dosage, consumption, sales, and commercial intent.
chris at chris conrad dot com. His # is on the website. Also may be worth it to contact ASA safe access now for any advice. Hope that helps, stay safe.
 
opt1c

opt1c

330
28
if its smell just answer the door with a smoking joint in your mouth and blow a big wiff towards em; last time i checked smell wasn't probable cause unless a drug dog confirmed said smell as the olfactory senses of an officer don't hold up for shit in court

y i would never live in a house without a metal security door; you can open the door to talk without letting them in

if a clone has roots its a plant; i only go by fed counts and anything with roots is a plant and if you're over 99 you can be a target; under 99 and you have only locals but i've yet to see personal medical growers targeted by leo; heard of harassment but unless you've got some crystal with that cannibus don't expect them to kick your door down anytime soon

get a dr to exempt you from local guidelines and you should be fine; local guidelines are bullshit... where i'm at the judge thinks its ok to ban ALL outdoor gardens for med patients; gonna be a shitstorm later in court but i don't think i want to be the one at the front of that legal battle

if anything i'd just get the name of the local leo who's been harassing you; file a complaint; and keep records of your complaint; ask for a copy of your complaint timestamped when you turn it into the police station; or have the person who receives it at the desk sign saying that they received it; that way when it disappears their little good ol boy attempt at covering shit up becomes that much more apparent

might as well throw the name of the harassing officer all over the net as well; karma is a bitch
 
U

up yours

Guest
Thank you for starting post it is most informativeand thank you for sharing what your attorney said as that costs money you totally rock Seamaiden keep it going and now back to this fatty aota doobie mmmm good
 
B

Big Brother

Guest
Another thing, and this one is very important for those people who love to put up signs informing LE that there's a legal grow on site--that sign equals probable cause. You think I'm gonna be putting up any signs?

Correct,no signs outside of your grow. If you want to have signs, have them inside. Don't advertise what's behind door number one.
 
A

amstercal

539
18
I hadn't considered them calling the rec holders like that. I don't know many people who would be cool under the pressure of a police call like that, resulting in all kinds of problems.

Seamaiden, is it one cop or just the dept in general that's bugging you? I can't see reporting a cop if you live in anything smaller than a city. Certainly in small towns a complaint is the quickest way to harassment, but I even knew someone being harassed by the Huntington police, and that's a plenty big enough place.

Also, how would they know if you knew the sex of the plant? What if you took a bunch of clones off an unsexed plant and then tossed the mother? Even if it had preflowers, or even pistils, how would they prove that you knew the sex of the plant? Just such a strange standard to set anything by.

So are we pretty much back to, keep it under 99 if it has a root, and other than that, expect to have to defend it in court?

Oh and if it's not a private matter, how did they find out about your grow? Please no pressure to answer if it's none of my beeswax. :-)
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
It's a group, who are part of the narcotics force. Smalltime county, and they really don't have a whole lot to do, though, like I said, I could get into a rant about how our resources are being used.
I guarantee you, smell equals probable cause, no matter your status as a patient.
In all instances you should expect to defend in court.
Knowing the sex doesn't matter because it speaks to maturity, which no longer matters.
if its smell just answer the door with a smoking joint in your mouth and blow a big wiff towards em; last time i checked smell wasn't probable cause unless a drug dog confirmed said smell as the olfactory senses of an officer don't hold up for shit in court

y i would never live in a house without a metal security door; you can open the door to talk without letting them in

if a clone has roots its a plant; i only go by fed counts and anything with roots is a plant and if you're over 99 you can be a target; under 99 and you have only locals but i've yet to see personal medical growers targeted by leo; heard of harassment but unless you've got some crystal with that cannibus don't expect them to kick your door down anytime soon

get a dr to exempt you from local guidelines and you should be fine; local guidelines are bullshit... where i'm at the judge thinks its ok to ban ALL outdoor gardens for med patients; gonna be a shitstorm later in court but i don't think i want to be the one at the front of that legal battle

if anything i'd just get the name of the local leo who's been harassing you; file a complaint; and keep records of your complaint; ask for a copy of your complaint timestamped when you turn it into the police station; or have the person who receives it at the desk sign saying that they received it; that way when it disappears their little good ol boy attempt at covering shit up becomes that much more apparent

might as well throw the name of the harassing officer all over the net as well; karma is a bitch
Opt1c, don't take this the wrong way but you need to update yourself on the current legal status of the 215 patient in California. There is NO way I'm going to do something like post the officer's name online! I live in a small county where people know each other, that's exactly the sort of thing that would bite me rather directly in the ass. I see these guys shopping, stuff like that, ya dig?

How do you know I didn't answer the door smoking something? That sounded kinda smart-ass, but here's the thing--when they showed up I had just loaded, and taken some fat tokes off, a fresh bowl of a sweet Mendo Purps cross I have that's finally dry enough to get trimmed up. So it was like, Uh, yeah, I just hit somma mah weed, guys, why do you need in? Anyway, the attorney confirmed, smell is probable cause, so you might want to double-check that one for yourself if you're not sure.

I went with a local guy because I needed to speak with someone local. Lots and lots of great people out in the Bay Area, but they're Bay Area, don't know my cops, my judges, etc. This guy does.

One thing he said that surprised me was that AB420 strikes all counts down, including in areas where there's already been a vote. In other words, all counties, cities, etcetera, have been made equal in that regard.

Amstercal, like I said, smell is probable cause. We've had some shit going down with a neighbor whose roommate is making some serious threats so they've had to call the cops out a couple of times. A new harvest was smelling pretty badly (not able to be seen in any way, not unless you have the keys to that door), another officer questioned the smell, was informed that I am a patient, a week later I have these guys at my door saying it's their policy to check out all 215 gardens.

Naturally, I contacted an attorney who specializes in the area more than my 'regular' guy, but he was a reference (good one, and I forgot to call James to thank him). If they visit me again, I'll begin exploring those options.
 
opt1c

opt1c

330
28
smell of smoking weed vs smell of growing weed are two very different things; where i am a judge won't issue a warrant if a cop smells someone smoking weed end of story; i'd really love to see a warrant where that is the primary probable cause; really i would... now if you got some kids running around the house its a different story... what you got was a knock and talk; ie cops without a warrant saying their policy was to check all patient gardens knocking on your door talking to you trying to get you to open it; just deny having a garden and say you get it in the county two over because your local county banned dispensaries

all i know about exemptions is that its better to cover your ass with paperwork than to not; if you didn't know the details about ab420 being stuck down you think your local leo does?

as far as not posting the officer's name i'm not living your life
you can choose to live in fear if you want
you can choose to be a victim if you want

fwiw i know that smell alone is not probable cause during traffic stops; ie a k9 has to be brought out if you don't consent to a search; i doubt you have fewer rights in your private residence than you do in your car... i really really really doubt that the smell of someone who is possibly a medical patient smoking marijuana is going to get a judge to sign a warrant to kick in your door, kill your dog, and throw flash bangs around your house... the potential political/social backlash is just a bit too much to do nowadays but i'm sure i'm wrong; i dropped out of law school anyways... not my thing
 
B

Backward_Z

86
0
If I put a sign on that door, that gives them probable cause and the attorney believes they could easily get a judge (here) to sign off on that.

...

It all began with smell, so keep that in mind.

You would put a sign OUTSIDE?! I'm talking about once they've already gained access, putting up photocopies of your scripts (sans phone numbers/contact info) around your room. You should never do ANYTHING to advertise that you have a grow--and it's not the cops I'd really be worried about.

But re: smell--carbon scrubbers. They work.
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
In Cali your supposed to have the script on the door of your grow room - luckily mine is only accessed from another bedroom, which is always locked up.

a friend of mine has his set up so there are 2 doors in the threshold with the papers on the inside door

lol

technicalities
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
No, you're not supposed to have the scrip (no such thing) on the door of your grow room. That equals probable cause to enter the grow room. Access to my growing areas, both indoors and out, is locked and secured.

I never said that they asked to enter based on the smell of burning pot, you've inferred that. What I said was what this attorney told me--smell is probable cause. If I tell them they have to have a warrant, they can handcuff my ass and make me wait while they get one. Neither one of us thinks they're going to do that here over the smell of a joint or a bowl, so I'm not sure why you think that's what I think..

I had just harvested my OD crop, it was hanging in the crawlspace (big enough to be called a basement, but it's open air-flow) and it stunk, all the way across the street. I can't smell it, even when I was down there with the plants, I couldn't smell it very much. Out by the street? Absolutely can't smell it. But they did.

I have been trying to figure out how I could easily and quickly create a space for drying that I could hook a scrubber up to, and at this time I don't have it figured out. Fortunately, at this moment it's a moot point.

This is what caught their attention. They may have seen it when it was growing, outgrew my attempts to train them down.
 
PA250050
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
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not to nitpick SM (and yes I know theres no such thing as a script) but they would have to be in somebody house to see the permit on a bedroom door
 
A

amstercal

539
18
seamaiden: well, if you're gonna have a room like that, everyone will want to come in. :-) what if you just put up some plywood, caulk and a scrubber? at least for next time.

i hear you on the small town thing. it's kinda easy for the cop to follow you around when he knows you well, knows your car, knows your husband's car, etc.

i actually know someone who was subjected to a search based on smell alone during a traffic stop. hilariously enough, i had given him a gift bag, like you wrap presents in, and the cop moved it but didn't look in it and didn't find anything or arrest him. this was orange county about 5 years ago.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Well, that's where I'm at, amstercal. I hadn't thought about smell being a problem for me since I'm a 215 patient, I figured they'd say, Ok, after looking at my paperwork and go on their way. Instead, they insisted they had to see everything and that the smell was probable cause. We were planning on eventually closing it in anyway.

So, in the meantime I had to speak with an attorney in case I am called upon again, but while I waited for the appointment to come up I wanted to know what others had to say or had experienced here in the state, etc.

Motherlode, I haven't mentioned a bedroom, not sure where you're getting that from.
 
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