How do you run Jack's pro 5-12-26 in RDWC

[FTWx561]

Hello all,

I am curios to see how everyone is using Jack's pro 5-12-26 and CalNit in RDWC. From my research it seems most people are running 3gr Jacks, 2 gr CalNit, 1gr Epsom. I know Capulator has been adding additional salts, is anyone else deviating from the basic?

 

[ttystikk]

Yes, I've been running it at weakened strength until recently, but that allowed me to notice what ratios plants liked best in my RDWC setup:

Vegetative;
3g/gal Jacks
3g/gal Cal Ni
.5g/gal Epsom salts
Superthrive

Flowering;
4g/gal Jacks
2g/gal Cal Ni
.5g/gal Epsom salts
Superthrive

Alternatively, One could do 3g/gal Jacks, 2g/gal Cal Ni, and add a bloom booster of your choice to kick up the P and K. I just did it this way because the Jacks is cheaper and I wanted more micro nutrients.

Now, these are not to be seen as some kind of 'written in stone' numbers, I use them as ratios relative to one another. If my EC is too low, I'll run a batch at double strength to bring it up. To lower EC, just add water.

 

[FTWx561]

I have been debating trying the MOST from peters to kick up the micros a bit since I'm using RO water. Calpulator appears to be using it at a concentration of .01g-.05g/gal.

It looks like your ratios are really close to what I am doing. Both the 3 jacks/2 CalNit and the 4 jacks/2 CalNit come pretty close to a 3-1-4 profile.

Has anyone dropped the CalNit completely and supplemented Ca late in flower?

 

[Capulator]

no, .05 to .1 grams. Not .01.

 

[FTWx561]

no, .05 to .1 grams. Not .01.

Sorry about that, was going off memory. Did you notice a difference when adding it or do you do it for piece of mind?

 

[Capulator]

I do it because the rep told me it was a good idea after I asked about it. Jacks is meant for tap water, which has some trace elements and minerals already. If you get the MOST with sulfur you can boost sulfur levels as well.

 

[ttystikk]

I do it because the rep told me it was a good idea after I asked about it. Jacks is meant for tap water, which has some trace elements and minerals already. If you get the MOST with sulfur you can boost sulfur levels as well.

Hey Cap- good to see you around! So I have a couple questions for you, if you have a minute?
You've seen what I'm using above- do you have any glaring concerns about the mix I've described? One of the reasons I went with 4g/gal of Jacks in the bud stage is in fact to nudge the micros up a bit.

If one uses a bloom booster instead of the extra bit of Jacks, I can see why a little supplementation might be helpful. On the other hand, exactly which micronutrients are you trying to increase when you add some MOST? I add a bit of Epsom salts, again in the low concentration listed above, so I'm not sure what else the girls might need?

A little full disclosure here; it's recently come to my attention that I've been running my concentrations too low, leading to all sorts of deficiency issues. The way I did this was to use the ratios listed above to fill the RDWC partway full, then just add water until I got the EC I was looking for. On the bright side, the plants seemed to be somewhat deficient of everything, not just one or two nutes... I'll be upping my nutrient concentrations in RDWC to around 2.0 EC, having not gotten anywhere near that high in the past- and suffered for it.

The tap water here is very, very low in dissolved solids of any kind, so I'm not getting much nutrient 'help' from it. I'd rather add a known quantity of nutes to clean water than deal with the unknowns in hard water, so I'm not complaining!

 

[Capulator]

thats weird bro I ran no more than 1.0 EC on my last run and my plants looked perfect all the way through. Not a good yield but I flipped this one way too early.

My formula veg last run:

Hydro: 1 gram
CaNO3: 1.5 grams
MKP: .08 grams
K2SO4: .25 grams
MOST: .05 grams
EPSOM: .35 grams

I ran this until end of stretch.




I don't see anything wrong with your formula because I cant see how yoru plants respond to it. If they like it, then its good..

 

[Aerojoe]

hey everyone, I've just recently tried to switch over to using these nutes, I'd like to say thanks again for all the help from cap, ttystik and anyone else that has given me help w/ these nutes. How would you guys incorporate some pro-tekt silicate into the 3/2/.5 or 4/2/.5 mix?

 

[ttystikk]

thats weird bro I ran no more than 1.0 EC on my last run and my plants looked perfect all the way through. Not a good yield but I flipped this one way too early.

My formula veg last run:

Hydro: 1 gram
CaNO3: 1.5 grams
MKP: .08 grams
K2SO4: .25 grams
MOST: .05 grams
EPSOM: .35 grams

I ran this until end of stretch.




I don't see anything wrong with your formula because I cant see how yoru plants respond to it. If they like it, then its good..

I don't have pics, but they looked pretty seriously nutrient deficient. I'm thinking this because I pushed them pretty hard with loads of light (55-60W/sq ft), RDWC's constant water availability and a sealed room environment with optimized humidity and supplemented CO2. The weak link in this intensified regimen then became the low nutrient strength and the plants starved for enough food. The results included yellow leaves, spots, poor yield, a few plants that just got weird looking, and the fact that most plants didn't get frosty or smelly- which is the biggest problem, cuz it's worthless that way!

When I cranked up my solution stength in veg to 1.7 EC, the plants turned bright green and exploded in a matter of days. I'm gonna run some higher strengths in this run and see what comes of it. I will go as high as 2.4 in peak flower, or until the girls tell me they're getting too much! Of course I'll let you know what the results are.

 

[ttystikk]

hey everyone, I've just recently tried to switch over to using these nutes, I'd like to say thanks again for all the help from cap, ttystik and anyone else that has given me help w/ these nutes. How would you guys incorporate some pro-tekt silicate into the 3/2/.5 or 4/2/.5 mix?

I don't add silica at all into my RDWC formulations. I read into why it's offered as a supplement and it really didn't make a lot of sense to me, so I don't use it. Maybe I should...

 

[Aerojoe]

I started using silica on my first grow and just haven't stopped also I'm using the same 1 gallon of pro-tekt from over 2 years ago and I still have 1/3 of it left. I figured most nutes didn't have silicate and since I was a hydro head there was no natural silica occurring in the soil. It also works as a great PH up. Thanks for the advice ttystik, if you ever do start using it, plz post how your using it in conjunction w/ the jacks.

 

[ttystikk]

I started using silica on my first grow and just haven't stopped also I'm using the same 1 gallon of pro-tekt from over 2 years ago and I still have 1/3 of it left. I figured most nutes didn't have silicate and since I was a hydro head there was no natural silica occurring in the soil. It also works as a great PH up. Thanks for the advice ttystik, if you ever do start using it, plz post how your using it in conjunction w/ the jacks.

Ask Capulator about this- He's been using Jacks for longer than I have and he runs the bennies vendor thread on here. I'm sure he's fielded this question before... I'd be interested to know what his response is, too!

 

[ttystikk]

No one has asked me WHY I run Jacks as opposed to another line of nutrients... so I'll answer anyway, lol.

I run Jacks because I got tired of buying ridiculously expensive bottles of stuff the manufacturer was shy about telling me was in it. There are only a few essential elements for plant growth (26 or so, if memory serves) and they're not a secret. Chelating those isn't exactly a new science, either.

Sure, there are lots of additives and supplements that don't fall into the essential nutes category, but if the manufacturer isn't going to tell me what's in their produt, I'm not going to buy it.

Hence, my decision to go with Jacks; I know exactly what's in it, I can custom mix it to tailor it to my needs and I can still add supplements to it. Oh yeah, and it's CHEAP! I pay less to change out an 80 gallon RDWC than I do to buy an energy drink.

I'm interested in others' reasoning about why they chose their line of nutes, be it Jacks or otherwise.

 

[Legion]

wow, this is like a blast from the past.. things come full circle. This is like how they did it in the 80's/90's

There are only 16 elements needed, and a few other just help I guess.. But, beware hydro nutes and soil nutes are not the same. Soil nutes (to save money) are not complete foods, they assume the rest will be in your soil. I know you know this cause that's why you're adding CA and stuff. That helps but there might be a few others missing. I don't know what's in Jacks but I'm sure it's good just might not be as complete.

Check out Earth Juice Micro Blast.. Like the name says, micro blast.. it's got a lot of good micros. Check it out if you can. It might make it work just a little better.

Contains Magnesium 0.50%; Boron 0.02%; Cobalt 0.0005%; Iron 0.10%; Manganese 0.05%; Molybdenum 0.0005%; and Zinc 0.05% in an organic base. Naturally buffered for assured plant absorption. May be added to nutrient solution reservoirs, watered in or used as a foliage spray.

Directions for Use:
Use 1-2 tsp. Microblast per gallon of water, every 2 to 4 weeks.

Ingredients: Kelp meal, magnesium sulfate, borax, cobalt sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, sodium molybdate and zinc sulfate.

 

[FTWx561]

wow, this is like a blast from the past.. things come full circle. This is like how they did it in the 80's/90's

There are only 16 elements needed, and a few other just help I guess.. But, beware hydro nutes and soil nutes are not the same. Soil nutes (to save money) are not complete foods, they assume the rest will be in your soil. I know you know this cause that's why you're adding CA and stuff. That helps but there might be a few others missing. I don't know what's in Jacks but I'm sure it's good just might not be as complete.

Check out Earth Juice Micro Blast.. Like the name says, micro blast.. it's got a lot of good micros. Check it out if you can. It might make it work just a little better.

Like most things in life nowadays, I think we all fell for the marketing hype for awhile. I owe a lot to Cap and some others for really opening my eyes to properly feeding your plants. Once I learned a little you can start to see what crap they are trying to sell you. I think I read in another thread that AN has something like 96 additives on the market. Are you kidding me? And the cost...... I can get 50lbs of jacks and CalNit for about the same as 1gal of Botanicare hydroplex (which is nothing more than a P/K booster at $78.00).

Jacks has a pretty good array of Micros but it is missing a few, silicon being one. That is why Cap supplements with protekt. I have not gone this route yet. It is also missing chlorine, cobalt and selenium. I am thinking about adding in calcium chloride to increase Ca and gain some chlorine. That is going to hold off though as I would rather run Bennies and I can't see adding chlorine into the mix as being a good thing. Once I know what the bennies are doing I wil start adding it in at low levels and see if it has any adverse affect. I have not done any research on plant needs and cobalt or selinum.

I'll see if I can find an analysis for the micro blast.

Thanks to everyone for continuing to contribute.

I know I said it earlier but I wan't to personally thank Capulator for taking the time to share his knowledge and experiences. On top of that his Tea packs appear to be the bees knees. Don't change a thing Cap the foil packs and the sharpie let's me know I am getting something with a personal touch and not some hydro store marketed up crap. Plus it has a mystique when you let your buddies try it and they just can't stand not knowing what it is.

 

[FTWx561]

I don't have pics, but they looked pretty seriously nutrient deficient. I'm thinking this because I pushed them pretty hard with loads of light (55-60W/sq ft), RDWC's constant water availability and a sealed room environment with optimized humidity and supplemented CO2. The weak link in this intensified regimen then became the low nutrient strength and the plants starved for enough food. The results included yellow leaves, spots, poor yield, a few plants that just got weird looking, and the fact that most plants didn't get frosty or smelly- which is the biggest problem, cuz it's worthless that way!

When I cranked up my solution stength in veg to 1.7 EC, the plants turned bright green and exploded in a matter of days. I'm gonna run some higher strengths in this run and see what comes of it. I will go as high as 2.4 in peak flower, or until the girls tell me they're getting too much! Of course I'll let you know what the results are.

Are you sure you weren't seeing issues due to lock up? Your 4/2 flower recipe seems high in K which I think will affect Ca and Mg. Your 3/3 veg seems high in calcium which can cause issues, hence the reason they are kept separate when mixing. It is my understanding that you never want to go above 2.0EC in any medium and that 1.1-1.5EC is ideal. However I do not claim to be an expert on the subject as I am still learning. I've been running the 3/2+RO with Epsom and bennies with three strains at 1.3EC and seeing the healthiest I've ever had. Two indica dominant and one sativa dominant.

PH can also trick you a bunch, do you calibrate your meter? I used to go months without doing it until one time I calibrated and then a week later did it again and it was off enough to cause issues. PH probes do degrade over time so for the few dollars it costs for cal solution I do it at least once a week.

 

[FTWx561]

Check out Earth Juice Micro Blast.. Like the name says, micro blast.. it's got a lot of good micros. Check it out if you can. It might make it work just a little better.

Sorry my eyes skipped right over the analysis you posted. It looks like Cobalt is the only element not contained in Jack's. Is anyone aware of the role Cobalt plays?

 

[Capulator]

I don't have pics, but they looked pretty seriously nutrient deficient. I'm thinking this because I pushed them pretty hard with loads of light (55-60W/sq ft), RDWC's constant water availability and a sealed room environment with optimized humidity and supplemented CO2. The weak link in this intensified regimen then became the low nutrient strength and the plants starved for enough food. The results included yellow leaves, spots, poor yield, a few plants that just got weird looking, and the fact that most plants didn't get frosty or smelly- which is the biggest problem, cuz it's worthless that way!

When I cranked up my solution stength in veg to 1.7 EC, the plants turned bright green and exploded in a matter of days. I'm gonna run some higher strengths in this run and see what comes of it. I will go as high as 2.4 in peak flower, or until the girls tell me they're getting too much! Of course I'll let you know what the results are.

Its strain dependent I am sure. Most people running a UC peak at 2.0 at around week 5, and then taper off when plants slow down eating.I tried this with my tangerine and locked it up at week 4.

My plants have 4k of light each.

One thing:

When I move my plants in to the big girls room, the plants dont transpire enough to compete with the amount of water the AC pulls from the air coupled with 9k of hot light. For the first 2 weeks on both of my last runs they looked like shit and didnt do much in the beginning (first 2-3 weeks) . DD talked about lumen shock, but I think what they were/are experiencing was/is RH shock.

My RH was at 28 and the plants looked shitty. This time I didn't wait though, I grabbed a humidifier that puts out like 6 gallons/hour and comes with an autofill.

Following the advice of Janus, I am running my RH at 60 minimum. The plants are much better after a few days of this.

 

[ttystikk]

Are you sure you weren't seeing issues due to lock up? Your 4/2 flower recipe seems high in K which I think will affect Ca and Mg. Your 3/3 veg seems high in calcium which can cause issues, hence the reason they are kept separate when mixing. It is my understanding that you never want to go above 2.0EC in any medium and that 1.1-1.5EC is ideal. However I do not claim to be an expert on the subject as I am still learning. I've been running the 3/2+RO with Epsom and bennies with three strains at 1.3EC and seeing the healthiest I've ever had. Two indica dominant and one sativa dominant.

PH can also trick you a bunch, do you calibrate your meter? I used to go months without doing it until one time I calibrated and then a week later did it again and it was off enough to cause issues. PH probes do degrade over time so for the few dollars it costs for cal solution I do it at least once a week.

Yes, I'm sure I wasn't seeing issues related to lockup. Keep in mind the numbers I posted above are RATIOS, not actual per gallon amounts. I would dilute to get the EC .6 to .9 in veg. and 1.0 to 1.3 in flower, and it was nowhere near enough. Those ratios work at higher concentrations, though and while I'm getting good results from that much calcium, keep in mind I'm also the beneficiary of some pretty damn soft tapwater with almost no dissolved solids in it at all. The local utility's test results webpage says something like 57ppm total. If you have hard water, adjust accordingly!

I just put a fresh probe in my pH meter. Keeping it calibrated is a daily ritual around here, in part because the water is so soft it doesn't buffer much.

I don't have results for flower yet, but when I ran the EC up to 1.7 in my vegetative RDWC, the results were explosive.