How light spectrum affects nutrient use in plant tissue...

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MGRox

MGRox

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I found another little paper abstract that ties into some of the suggestions made earlier relating to photosystem damage.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00194455
"Nitrate caused a rapid, but transient inhibition of the rate of net CO2 assimilation,....."
"Nitrite or ammonium feeding resulted in decreased rates of CO2 assimilation for as long as the nitrogen source was supplied"
"In all cases the degree of inhibition was greatest at high irradiance and least at low irradiance, even though the total amino-acid contents of the leaves were comparable at the time when maximum inhibition of CO2 assimilation occurred."

"Measurements of chlorophyll-a fluorescence showed that the quantum efficiency of PSII decreased and non-radiative dissipation of excitation energy increased as CO2 assimilation was inhibited by nitrate or nitrite. These metabolites had no direct effect on thylakoid PSII-based electron transport."


**The first couple points are mainly of interest that Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonium all DECREASE CO2 assimilation!!
**It is very important to note that "the degree of inhibition was greatest at high irradiance". I.E more light nets lower assimilation!!
***finally and relating directly to photosystem damage, is the last point. "non-radiative dissipation of excitation energy increased as CO2 assimilation was inhibited" <<< As shown previously Calcium is required to "quench" this dissipation to prevent PSII damage.

Last I believe I have been able to re-create // witness the same effect and similar scenario as the OP. These pics are of the same plant (Fuel at appx week 6). One side of the plant was facing a 600w Hortilux HPS. The other side of the plant was facing a Gavita DE 600/750 (set on 600). Distance from light to plant on both sides was equal. (plant was stretched directly under gavita to eliminate burning variable).

First is the side of the plant facing the Hortilux 600w.
FuelPSIIDamageHortiSide


Second pic is from the same plant, same height and same time, but is the side facing the Gavita 600/750
FuelPSIIDamageGavitaside


IMHO PSII damage / repair was in excess on the Gavita facing side leading to destructive photosystem damage. While on the Hortilux side it was manageable to stay non-destructive. (Higher Ca when leaf was formed [appx wk 3] most likely would have averted this effect).
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

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This *VERY* important thread informed me greatly.

Ive seen the exact same thing on Lumitek ballasts in open vertical , running on overdrive (1100w). Makes sense now.

I wonder if the answer is to dial the ballasts back? Would H.R. Veg+Bloom be able to manage these issues? Should I supplement with a lot more CA?
 
T

tropical sun

5
3
Just saw this thread, yea I know its old. I think the initial pictures are fungus, not nutritional. The blue MH gives a lot of uv, which helps to stop the fungus. The hps does not and thats the difference. If you were to burn sulphur once or twice and it gets better then you will know I am right.Burning sulphur knocks out foliar fungus better than anything and you can see when the fungus is dead.For a 200sf room burn for 1.5hrs two days in a row with no ventilation .
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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This is not a diagnosis thread, and I guarantee you that Capulator knows the difference between a fungus like PM and nutrient issues. I think you should read the papers that are attached to get a better idea of what was happening. :)
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

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This is not a diagnosis thread, and I guarantee you that Capulator knows the difference between a fungus like PM and nutrient issues. I think you should read the papers that are attached to get a better idea of what was happening. :)
Interestingly, I had both together. When I tried a more hot, dry environment, my plants got stressed and the pm didn't die. Fwiw
 
Purpletrain

Purpletrain

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I personally think with the rapid uptake of nutrients with strong lighting causes rapid ph swings thus causing leaf issues .
i have run 1000's 14 - 16" from tops and only time i seen that is when i was pushing the plants with nutrients since lowering nutes easy by half and giving more water the problem is solved
Note only seen light bleaching once and on one leaf
problem many factor in is that air in our homes or indoor rooms are polluted with chemicals and pathogens
99 percent of the time when you see rustic leafs its either PH or not enough air exchange
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
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I didn't ask you Seamaiden. Funkadelic appreciated my info.
I'm not trying to instigate nor referee here. I'm just saying I had a problem just like Capulator, but PM hit too. Kept having both problems.
I suspect that plants with compromised health from lockout are also vulnerable to PM. Just my observation.
Keeping it to observation and botany.
I am going to run much lower PPM and a UVC/HEPA filter.
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
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I'm also going to hand feed N4tG nutrients, which are calcium based organics, pre broken down.
I also run open bulb verticals.
 
T

tropical sun

5
3
Cool- I just bought an RXAIR UV system myself , I chose this one because its the most powerful PCO
system on the market that I could find.
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
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Update - so far, so good. NEVER running open bulb verts on overdrive ever again (Solistek 1100w "Boost" mode).

Switching to 400w HPS next run, adding a dozen Boulder Light 315s, 1 per site, which daisy chain (6 together, no need for big power box controller).

This means vert+horizontal, better spectrum, better PAR, better coverage (top and sides), lower heat, and Im quite certain higher yields despite switch from 8800w (equivalent, on overdrive mode) to 6000w with superior PAR and color and closer proximity.

I can't see any reason not to. The full blast open bulb HPS 1000w Hortilux Eye setup has been expensive, run hot, and plants transpired way too much - I was an idiot not testing runoff EC, had lockout galore, sick plants, PM despite hot/dry, terrible Vapor Pressure Deficit.

In short, trying to blast light, results were awful regardless of strain, nutes, etc. Im the poster child for this problem.

Lower EC veg+bloom this round, hand feed Nectar for the Gods weekly, controlling VPD... so far so good...
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
93
Ha, just tested ec and ph in drain buckets... EC is 1800 and pH is over 8. I jumped, but then realized theres Nectar for the Gods runoff in there. Whew.
Veg+Bloom main regular small irrigations at 500 EC now. Hope thats the sweet spot. Girls look hungry by end of week, then BLOW UP dark, lush, happy, singing when they get their N4tG.
So far, way better than just hydro nutes alone, at higher EC... whew
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
93
Cool- I just bought an RXAIR UV system myself , I chose this one because its the most powerful PCO
system on the market that I could find.
Post updates, please. I contacted air purifier store website customer support, said Im battling mildew, want UVC enclosed/HEPA, dude really hustled to identify exact unit. Praying this passively kills pm spores so I can keep humidity up longer early or at least defeat PM. Hateful stuff.
 
V

Vqh

24
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What do you think about my problem using biocanna series 1sqm 600w hps alot airflow temp between 27-29 running at 660 w ajust a wing first days of week 4 big leaves are getting like this
 
Screenshot 20161004 013626
W

warren420

4
3
Great observation. Working with LEDs I've noticed a lot of this. Under LEDs my plants seem to enjoy more cal-mag (magnesium to be exact as I've only ever had mag def under LEDs). Yes HPS seems to take bloom boosters best, because under other lighting I have often burned my plants a bit when introducing a booster. Under CMH I've had maybe the healthiest plants. T5's as well, and flowered a damn nice plant under cfl's before as well and required the least amount of food. Not any science behind what I say. Just sharing my observations.
CMH ,, SUPPLEMENT WITH HPS 2-315 to 1 hps I use 400's best results I've found and massive cut in energy bill
 
W

warren420

4
3
Plants need red light to fully metabolize P. I switched to CMH bulbs for veg which give off a more balanced spectrum (lots more red than MH) and am never looking back. Cap noted better root production under a warmer light. I've definitely shaved days off my cloning schedule since introducing red light.
4100k veg,3100flower unbeatable
 
john martin

john martin

521
93
What do you think about my problem using biocanna series 1sqm 600w hps alot airflow temp between 27-29 running at 660 w ajust a wing first days of week 4 big leaves are getting like this
Add more Calcium
 
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GT21

GT21

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Photon colors hit photo system 1 and 2 and chlorophyll a and b differently which changes the cycle speed and the secondary metabolite usage. Has nothing to do with intensity.. in more intense light you use less nutes to prevent stoma gas off burns. Different light color makes a plant use nutes different.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949401/
 
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Screenshot 2017 03 21 09 43 00

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