How Many Cola's Per Sq Ft Do You Have?

[GoM3z]

What strain are you running that finishes in 30 days? Sounds like you are making yourself sound better or faster than reality. I run strains that finish in under 50 days and thats fast.

Harvest every 30 days in a 5x5 9 plants.... that's not possible.

I think you forgot a month, just sayin.

First you said perpetual, now its harvest 9 plants every 30 days? So you must have more than 1 flowering room??

I'm using the "old" math tho. Maybe I need a better calculator.

No, not possible, although i'm sure it will be the way we are going. My strain is an 8 weeker. I wrote a lot and apologies if it wasn't completely clear. I was focusing mainly on the "tips" for the guy that I replied to.

It's a perpetual grow, harvest every 4 weeks. How? You would have read that I use 2 rooms, both 5x10ft. So, essentially I have 4 zones, and 2 zones in every room. A batch in the flower room will be there for 8 weeks under 1000W. Every month, 1 zone is cleared and harvested from the Flower room, then replaced with the girls in VEG. each zone is offset by 1 month (staggered) and rotated. Does that make sense? So, no, not more than 1 flower room, just 2 5x5 zones in the one flower room. Right now, for example, I have a calendar like this:

Batch A: Clone Week 1 (will last 4 weeks)
Batch B: VEG Week 1, (will go 8 weeks)
Batch C: VEG Week 5 (will go 8 weeks)
Batch D: FLOWER Week 1, (will go 8 weeks)
Batch E: FLOWER Week 5 (will go 8 weeks)

Harvest, as you would imagine is pretty full on. Never though I'd use an bowl trimmer, now I couldn't do it without it. A harvest would consist of 2-3 days work. The harvest itself and the rotation of all the other zones + epic cleaning!

"I'm using the "old" math tho. Maybe I need a better calculator."
Reckon you math is OK man, I just wasn't that clear on the HOW part of the perpetual harvest.

" Sounds like you are making yourself sound better or faster than reality. I run strains that finish in under 50 days and that's fast."
In reality, I am fast and very efficient in the way I go about it. As mentioned, you need to be when you have a monthly harvest, rotation and a full time job on top of it. Although, I do employ a bit a help over harvest. I'm not here to put my self on a pedestal, just wanted to share some things that learnt. At the end of the day, we are all striving for the same thing: growing beautiful plants. Best of luck to you brother!!!

 

[Migrower]

All this mainlining training I've been doing lately trying to maximize my space with tops.

Got me wondering,
What is the ideal number of tops per square foot. My definition of top is an almost even canopy where every top is squeezed between each other. Not a big round bush with 100 tops all stuffed inside and out.

You would also imagine all these tops fitting within a square box the sq footage of your grow area. Imagine walls/boundaries. Yet you could grow upwards within that footprint.

I'm talking real main cola's!

I've noticed if the count gets too high light penetration will be low beneath the canopy.

Then there is the idea that some strains leaves may be huge and require more distance between cola's.

If too dense mold or p.m. could be an issue for some. That is if airflow was low and humidity high (my airflow is good an humidity is low. Also I have an intake filter).

As it sits now I have 4 mainlined females with 4 tops each in a 2x2 space (4sq ft). That puts me at 4 tops per square foot 16 total. And its comfortable.

I've been wondering lately if I could push it higher. I'm worried my space is a jungle already lol. Here is most recent photo yesterday of the chaos.
View attachment 625588
View attachment 625589

I have clones in my lower chamber now. Two with 4 tops and the third with only 2. I am training them for the flowering chamber when this run is done in 6 more weeks. I'm gonna decide if I want more or less this next round. I could have 2 with 8 tops and the 3rd with 4. That would put me at 20 tops/5per square foot. Or I could grow 1 monster with 16 tops. The configurations are endless.


Anyone have any experience or opinions?

You can fit in more tops if you incorporate pruning into your repertoire of techniques. I fit in more pr. Sq.ft. on the last grow I had. It did get a bit crowded in the last few weeks but I went ten weeks and had 4 plants in a 5x5 . Got over 2lbs cured. Under lm301b diodes 480w. I love your question and wonder myself. This time I’m running a SOG a bit differently then the 4 big. I’m running more smaller plants vegged a lot less time. As you know. Main lining and HST can delay the completion of veg greatly compared to a simple top one time and let grow big enough to break up and twist between a trellis net. I’ll see and know what’s a more productive method.

 

[Bobrown14]

Its clear - thanks I thought you were running more than 1 flower room. All good.

I bought a bowl trimmer ... still never used it yet. After I pull down a pounder Sativa I'll likely break it out.

I run 1 veg room, 1 flower room and a clone/veg table.

Soon be running 2 flower rooms.

Whats you cloning technique - if you don't mind sharing. I totally suck at cloning and I've been doing it for years now. Still trying different ways and still sucking at it.

 

[78OzFinest]

is there not a point of diminishing returns ?a point at which you would probably be better off with fewer large colas and shorter veg time than just shooting for a massive amount of colas ?? someone must have ran side by sides to compare yield in some similar scenarios..

 

[Migrower]

is there not a point of diminishing returns ?a point at which you would probably be better off with fewer large colas and shorter veg time than just shooting for a massive amount of colas ?? someone must have ran side by sides to compare yield in some similar scenarios..

Yes there definitely is. Infact just topping to fast can get you the amount of colas desired but the plant unable to equally feed these colas and you will in turn have uneven colas no matter how much stem pinching and supercropping(also highly stressful to young plants already stressed) all these factors slow growth and prolong veg. I am currently doing a SOG method ,while the last run I did a more bigger (HST,mainlined) plant grow. Veg took forever and I believe there’s a more efficient method. Though I must say the quality was amazing off those big long vegged plants. I’m hoping the quality don’t differ.

 

[NorCalGroEr]

No, not possible, although i'm sure it will be the way we are going. My strain is an 8 weeker. I wrote a lot and apologies if it wasn't completely clear. I was focusing mainly on the "tips" for the guy that I replied to.

It's a perpetual grow, harvest every 4 weeks. How? You would have read that I use 2 rooms, both 5x10ft. So, essentially I have 4 zones, and 2 zones in every room. A batch in the flower room will be there for 8 weeks under 1000W. Every month, 1 zone is cleared and harvested from the Flower room, then replaced with the girls in VEG. each zone is offset by 1 month (staggered) and rotated. Does that make sense? So, no, not more than 1 flower room, just 2 5x5 zones in the one flower room. Right now, for example, I have a calendar like this:

Batch A: Clone Week 1 (will last 4 weeks)
Batch B: VEG Week 1, (will go 8 weeks)
Batch C: VEG Week 5 (will go 8 weeks)
Batch D: FLOWER Week 1, (will go 8 weeks)
Batch E: FLOWER Week 5 (will go 8 weeks)

Harvest, as you would imagine is pretty full on. Never though I'd use an bowl trimmer, now I couldn't do it without it. A harvest would consist of 2-3 days work. The harvest itself and the rotation of all the other zones + epic cleaning!

"I'm using the "old" math tho. Maybe I need a better calculator."
Reckon you math is OK man, I just wasn't that clear on the HOW part of the perpetual harvest.

" Sounds like you are making yourself sound better or faster than reality. I run strains that finish in under 50 days and that's fast."
In reality, I am fast and very efficient in the way I go about it. As mentioned, you need to be when you have a monthly harvest, rotation and a full time job on top of it. Although, I do employ a bit a help over harvest. I'm not here to put my self on a pedestal, just wanted to share some things that learnt. At the end of the day, we are all striving for the same thing: growing beautiful plants. Best of luck to you brother!!!

A very good right up my bro it was very clear to me that you harvest every 30days because how your timing is set up for the perpetual harvests and not bc your running some mythical 30day strain lol. We’re very close in our setup I run 1000w mh/hps in a 4x4 but recently bought a 5x5. I also run 9 plants but am not training them as well as you my guess for a while their i was really getting lazy with my veg practices, I would veg in a closet under a t5 then put them straight into 12/12hps it would leave my canopy with many gaps and far from level. I’m going to really stick by this I have enough experience to know this is very good advice thxs buddy

 

[GoM3z]

is there not a point of diminishing returns ?a point at which you would probably be better off with fewer large colas and shorter veg time than just shooting for a massive amount of colas ?? someone must have ran side by sides to compare yield in some similar scenarios..

Totally agree with Migrower. To be honest, it's generally pretty clear when you reach that point. When all the tops are crushed together, struggling to breath, wet from the humidity and heat it's generating. I've definitely gone over the edge a few times, it becomes impossible to maintain and you can;t get in there, mould central.

Timing is key. As Migrow mentioned, topping and LST add a shit ton of stress, especially topping. You need to factor in that each top you make stunts around 3-5 days of growth. I top twice to get me a nice mainlined base. Works out like this:

1. First Topping - after 4 weeks of cloning, make the first top so you have a "T". Everything else goes.
2. Second Topping -around week 2/3 of veg there'll be enough growth complete the main frame. I top each end to give 4 main branches either side, ideally it will be completely symmetrical. Symmetry allows for even growth, no one dominant cola, nice even distribution of nutes. Then over the next several weeks you perform LST to keep it's structure.

 

[GoM3z]

Its clear - thanks I thought you were running more than 1 flower room. All good.

I bought a bowl trimmer ... still never used it yet. After I pull down a pounder Sativa I'll likely break it out.

I run 1 veg room, 1 flower room and a clone/veg table.

Soon be running 2 flower rooms.

Whats you cloning technique - if you don't mind sharing. I totally suck at cloning and I've been doing it for years now. Still trying different ways and still sucking at it.

Sweet man. Cloning's a funny one. My advice, firstly, would be to make double of what you need. Its cheap, easy and fast, and that way you'll give yourself a better chance of creating a batch of healthy clones. Scrogging for me starts at clone selection/elimination. To create a symmetrical canopy you need x amount of plants all growing at the same rate. Once the first 10 have popped for me it's clear what's being eliminated.

Secondly, be super sanitary and use good quality instruments, good sharp razors, you don't want to harm them and stress them out by ripping skin with blunt knives or trimmers. They are still living so treat them as such. Don't let oxygen get into them, a bubble will kill it, if you need to put the candidates in prepared ph'd water. Use a good quality cloning gel kept refrigerated, I generally find most do the job when stored well. That said, I will throw cloning gel out after 3 months of use. I soak pellets in prepared water, the only additive I use is a drop of organic root stimulator. When selecting the candidate, stay away from any super mature parts of the mother, woody is bad. Look for the lush young growth further down, this will give your clone the best chance of rooting as it contains the most concentrated amount of rooting hormones.

In terms of using the razor, again, be gentle. With sterile razor blade I will quickly skin it then gentle rough a part of the exposed, remove any debris, dip it cloning gel then into the pellet. Finally, all into the doom. I will keep it completely shut and only open for misting to keep that humidity right up. During those first few days the only water it gets come from the air through the leaves so that humidity needs to be 90%+ constantly. I'll notice roots popping out from day 7-10.

Every now and again a clone will just wilt and die, never sure why exactly, probably oxygen getting into it.

Lastly, a clone should come from good stock. The mother should be a few months old at least and be in pristine health.

 

[Migrower]

Totally agree with Migrower. To be honest, it's generally pretty clear when you reach that point. When all the tops are crushed together, struggling to breath, wet from the humidity and heat it's generating. I've definitely gone over the edge a few times, it becomes impossible to maintain and you can;t get in there, mould central.

Timing is key. As Migrow mentioned, topping and LST add a shit ton of stress, especially topping. You need to factor in that each top you make stunts around 3-5 days of growth. I top twice to get me a nice mainlined base. Works out like this:

1. First Topping - after 4 weeks of cloning, make the first top so you have a "T". Everything else goes.
2. Second Topping -around week 2/3 of veg there'll be enough growth complete the main frame. I top each end to give 4 main branches either side, ideally it will be completely symmetrical. Symmetry allows for even growth, no one dominant cola, nice even distribution of nutes. Then over the next several weeks you perform LST to keep it's structure.

View attachment 890582



View attachment 890583

On point with everything. There’s definitely a sweet spot in the amount of training you do. I like the two top method letting it grow big enough to break the shit out of and twist through a net. That’s seems on par with one of the more efficient ways of working a SOG system. Blowing up the entire canopy with efficient lighting and proper care. Keeping an even canopy through stretch is also very critical I found last run. And also no wasted energy under the net. Only big flowers get the energy. Direct the energy to where you want by pinching and pruning. A little OCD will go a long way.

 

[GoM3z]

Hi guys,

I thought I'd share some pics in a timeline to better show the method I'm using to get make the most out of my limited sq footage. Migrow, sounds like we are on the same page, keen to see the same from you ;)

DAY 2 - CLONE: Clones spends 3-4 weeks in the dome, vents closed for 7-10 days while they root. Start with 15-20, end with 9 bad asses.

DAY 7 - VEG: The initial top was done at the end of 1 month cloning, now the manifold is taking shape. I'll generally wait till both side shoots have grown 6-8 new side shoots of their own until I top each of the side shoots and remove inner branches to leave with 4 branches each side. Notice I'm now forcibly starting to train them, it's not causing stress, on the contrary, I find it promotes growth. One tip: If one side-shoot is far more dominant than the other, tie that dominant shoot well lower than the smaller one to allow the small shoot to catch up. Also, prune well the branches only leaving tips, when they are this small the neighbouring fan leaves can easily obstruct light getting to new growth. Remember, the key here is to keep symmetry, all branches should be more or less the same length and vertical height.

DAY 35 - VEG: By day 35, the main manifold is complete. From now on I train her out out out, pruning regularly. I don't let the girls waste time and energy on shoots that I don't want. I would prune every few days, removing all but the last 2-3 nodes on every branch.

DAY 7 - FLOWER: 2-3 nodes per branch is still my target up until flower, day 14-21, after which I will just let her go. Training is complete in terms of pruning, the rest is tying down (or up!) to maintain that nice even canopy . Unless you like seeds in your bud, don't prune late into flower. If you find you are having to prune after flowers have appeared then you have not taken enough off before you let her grow freely. My advice here, if you have too much foliage, better to tuck than cut. Personally, during flower I want ZERO stress on the girls, leave them be.

Cheers!

 

[Bobrown14]

I grow trees in organic soil. So the opposite of what you guys do.

I just harvested and got 1.3g/w top shelf (Future & Liquid Imagination).

Thanks for your write up on cloning.

I've done it just about every way possible.

I'll try the peat pellets like you. Thats actually how I run from seeds.

I got tired of messing with cuts and just started dipping them in honey and into a glass of water.

I always have more than I can grow out but not anywhere near 100%.

 

[Dirtbag]

I grow trees in organic soil. So the opposite of what you guys do.

I just harvested and got 1.3g/w top shelf (Future & Liquid Imagination).

Thanks for your write up on cloning.

I've done it just about every way possible.

I'll try the peat pellets like you. Thats actually how I run from seeds.

I got tired of messing with cuts and just started dipping them in honey and into a glass of water.

I always have more than I can grow out but not anywhere near 100%.

Try rapid rooters. I used peat pucks for years with no issues but I've been using rapid rooters lately. They are the bees knees. I get rooted clones in 5-7 days and nearly 100% success with them. Peat pucks were more like 10-14 days to root and the plant would feed off itself way more.

 

[Bobrown14]

I like peat pellets best.

The rapid rooters take years to compost if they even compost. I've used them in the past and when sifting my vermi-compost they show up in the sift process and need to go in the garbage. Thought there were compostable. They are not.

 

[Tymatic95]

All this mainlining training I've been doing lately trying to maximize my space with tops.

Got me wondering,
What is the ideal number of tops per square foot. My definition of top is an almost even canopy where every top is squeezed between each other. Not a big round bush with 100 tops all stuffed inside and out.

You would also imagine all these tops fitting within a square box the sq footage of your grow area. Imagine walls/boundaries. Yet you could grow upwards within that footprint.

I'm talking real main cola's!

I've noticed if the count gets too high light penetration will be low beneath the canopy.

Then there is the idea that some strains leaves may be huge and require more distance between cola's.

If too dense mold or p.m. could be an issue for some. That is if airflow was low and humidity high (my airflow is good an humidity is low. Also I have an intake filter).

As it sits now I have 4 mainlined females with 4 tops each in a 2x2 space (4sq ft). That puts me at 4 tops per square foot 16 total. And its comfortable.

I've been wondering lately if I could push it higher. I'm worried my space is a jungle already lol. Here is most recent photo yesterday of the chaos.
View attachment 625588
View attachment 625589

I have clones in my lower chamber now. Two with 4 tops and the third with only 2. I am training them for the flowering chamber when this run is done in 6 more weeks. I'm gonna decide if I want more or less this next round. I could have 2 with 8 tops and the 3rd with 4. That would put me at 20 tops/5per square foot. Or I could grow 1 monster with 16 tops. The configurations are endless.


Anyone have any experience or opinions?

What do you think? 13 plants 6 autos 7indica strog sea of green

 

[Miiikke]

All this mainlining training I've been doing lately trying to maximize my space with tops.

Got me wondering,
What is the ideal number of tops per square foot. My definition of top is an almost even canopy where every top is squeezed between each other. Not a big round bush with 100 tops all stuffed inside and out.

You would also imagine all these tops fitting within a square box the sq footage of your grow area. Imagine walls/boundaries. Yet you could grow upwards within that footprint.

I'm talking real main cola's!

I've noticed if the count gets too high light penetration will be low beneath the canopy.

Then there is the idea that some strains leaves may be huge and require more distance between cola's.

If too dense mold or p.m. could be an issue for some. That is if airflow was low and humidity high (my airflow is good an humidity is low. Also I have an intake filter).

As it sits now I have 4 mainlined females with 4 tops each in a 2x2 space (4sq ft). That puts me at 4 tops per square foot 16 total. And its comfortable.

I've been wondering lately if I could push it higher. I'm worried my space is a jungle already lol. Here is most recent photo yesterday of the chaos.
View attachment 625588
View attachment 625589

I have clones in my lower chamber now. Two with 4 tops and the third with only 2. I am training them for the flowering chamber when this run is done in 6 more weeks. I'm gonna decide if I want more or less this next round. I could have 2 with 8 tops and the 3rd with 4. That would put me at 20 tops/5per square foot. Or I could grow 1 monster with 16 tops. The configurations are endless.


Anyone have any experience or opinions?

Im on the same journey! I have about 150 tops going up right now level on a 17”x 17” screen, plan is to end up with at least 128 above my 2nd bigger screen which will have 128 bigger holes, shokting for at least 3.5 g per cola, gonna continue to fim in flower to keep all 128 level, gonna set up my screen for each cola to be about 4” tall with around 2”x2” surrounding clearance. Im at about 10 weeks right now

 

[MIMedGrower]

Im on the same journey! I have about 150 tops going up right now level on a 17”x 17” screen, plan is to end up with at least 128 above my 2nd bigger screen which will have 128 bigger holes, shokting for at least 3.5 g per cola, gonna continue to fim in flower to keep all 128 level, gonna set up my screen for each cola to be about 4” tall with around 2”x2” surrounding clearance. Im at about 10 weeks right now

That looks fun and i like your diy blurple array. Looks cool. But isnt 10 weeks veg with more to go a long way to grow a pound? You could veg 4 plants 6-8 weeks and flip for the same goal.

 

[Miiikke]

That looks fun and i like your diy blurple array. Looks cool. But isnt 10 weeks veg with more to go a long way to grow a pound? You could veg 4 plants 6-8 weeks and flip for the same goal.

Yes I agree and I still have even longer to go in veg, but Im limited with space. So the plan is to learn at least a lb on one plant as short and condensed as possible to one screen which will be identical to the diy light I will add on for aurface area as I go. So if I learn a lb per plant at smallest possible surface area meaning more return on wattage and when I get up to 4 pants I should be able to get at least 4 lbs in the same area and wattage as the one I would get with the 4 quick plants. Its longer veg time, but my plan is to clone every plant 4 weeks in giving it 4 weeks to recover and catch back up meaning every 2 month harvests. With a lb per each plant in rotation

 

[Miiikke]

.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yes I agree and I still have even longer to go in veg, but Im limited with space. So the plan is to learn at least a lb on one plant as short and condensed as possible to one screen which will be identical to the diy light I will add on for aurface area as I go. So if I learn a lb per plant at smallest possible surface area meaning more return on wattage and when I get up to 4 pants I should be able to get at least 4 lbs in the same area and wattage as the one I would get with the 4 quick plants. Its longer veg time, but my plan is to clone every plant 4 weeks in giving it 4 weeks to recover and catch back up meaning every 2 month harvests. With a lb per each plant in rotation

lofty goal. I have seen it done with a 600 w hps over each screen. Good luck!

 

[Miiikke]

I grow trees in organic soil. So the opposite of what you guys do.

I just harvested and got 1.3g/w top shelf (Future & Liquid Imagination).

Thanks for your write up on cloning.

I've done it just about every way possible.

I'll try the peat pellets like you. Thats actually how I run from seeds.

I got tired of messing with cuts and just started dipping them in honey and into a glass of water.

I always have more than I can grow out but not anywhere near 100%.

Me too!!

lofty goal. I have seen it done with a 600 w hps over each screen. Good luck!

thankyou, would 80 true watt leds built out flat to hover over completely flush with screen maintaining around 80* at screen suffice to an hps. I stay about a foot over the screen with lights. Watts are watts right? Ia that how that works? And Im in a small place with 4 bodies flowing CO2 at some point with this level of manipulation do you think Ill need a CO2 leak. I think as long as. Temp, lights, nutes and CO2 are prime then I should be able to take advantage of that 1g per watt also right? I spend alot of time breathing on it also, cause Im always working on it lol. Its growing pretty fast, I had to be heavy on foliation from a seedling in preparation so it handles training very well and has even seemed to speed up at every trim