How necessary is it to spend money on soil microbes?

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AZsunfarmer

AZsunfarmer

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Dumb question but why buy voodoo juice, great white, myco this and that, name your favorite brand, when it’s all in soil already? If you have healthy garden soil outside can’t you just grab a scoop and throw it in your pot and mix it in? I feel like a idiot paying for this shit. I understand it’s purified and certain strains are isolated but if you provide optimal soil conditions all that will balance itself out. There are so many amazing soils out there that literally show up on your doorstep loaded with good shit. I’m very new to this and so far I’ve been using voodoo and was contemplating buying some great white, but my next run I’m going to omit all of that shit.
 
ComfortablyNumb

ComfortablyNumb

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This really only matters if you decide to grow organic.
If you do, then you need to amend most store bought soils to get to a 'living' stage where they can support the plant.
Some come correctly mixed and ready to go, 95% do not.
 
Frankster

Frankster

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Dumb question but why buy voodoo juice, great white, myco this and that, name your favorite brand, when it’s all in soil already? If you have healthy garden soil outside can’t you just grab a scoop and throw it in your pot and mix it in? I feel like a idiot paying for this shit. I understand it’s purified and certain strains are isolated but if you provide optimal soil conditions all that will balance itself out. There are so many amazing soils out there that literally show up on your doorstep loaded with good shit. I’m very new to this and so far I’ve been using voodoo and was contemplating buying some great white, but my next run I’m going to omit all of that shit.

With experience, yes. Starting out, I would highly recommend getting some spawns to inoculate your local soils to ensure you got well rounded microbes. I've got a bit of a microbiology background, so I'm a pretty big advocate of having the right symbiotes.

Here's a good start, but ensure you getting it from a fairly fresh source, this should be a good one. Keep it dark/cool for upwards past a year, or so. But getting the proper microbes in your soil is a must do, and once there going, you can simply recycle in some of your last grow, and keep it rolling.

This stuff has almost 40 organisms. A whole spectrum of everything you need. Nitrification, beneficial bacteria, Arbuscular mycorrhiza fungi
 
Frankster

Frankster

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This really only matters if you decide to grow organic.
If you do, then you need to amend most store bought soils to get to a 'living' stage where they can support the plant.
Some come correctly mixed and ready to go, 95% do not.
I don't do organic; and I'm huge on microbes, actually. It's just I'm not big on Nitrifying bacteria. I do use Arbuscular mycorrhiza fungi, and I use a lot of other microbes, like lactobacillus. (I use my yogurt in the fridge, mixed with water, and some molasses).

 
BirdLaw86

BirdLaw86

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Look into KNF IMO and Jadam IMO. These two growing techniques are highly focused on microbial life and show you how to inoculate your soil for free, no money needed. Im using it. After those microbial inputs you can order great white or myco grow or recharge to inoculate with mycorrhizae. That will work perfectly fine. And to answer simply, YES microbes and fungi is worth adding to your soil.
 
AZsunfarmer

AZsunfarmer

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Yes I do agree that fungi and bacteria are important and still use them but I have a suspicion we may be overpaying a touch for them. I would suspect my local Sonoran soil has more fungi and bacteria than you could even try to culture. Plants are adapted to this extreme heat with the help of a very robust soil ecosystem. I do believe it’s tricky trying to mimic it indoors and thus the crazy amounts of product for purchase. I want to try KNF, I’m just don’t have the time or energy. I guess it all goes back to local composting and making things yourself for the best quality and health of your garden.
 
AZsunfarmer

AZsunfarmer

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I found this when I was looking into making some KNF LAB.


Looks to be a commercial manufactured version of LAB. I know it takes some time to make a lot of those KNF cocktails so maybe this would be a little easier to get those short chain fatty acids to fatten up the terpene profiles. Also cleans up those organic smells, lol.
 
OutdoorGrowGuy

OutdoorGrowGuy

45
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Dumb question but why buy voodoo juice, great white, myco this and that, name your favorite brand, when it’s all in soil already? If you have healthy garden soil outside can’t you just grab a scoop and throw it in your pot and mix it in? I feel like a idiot paying for this shit. I understand it’s purified and certain strains are isolated but if you provide optimal soil conditions all that will balance itself out. There are so many amazing soils out there that literally show up on your doorstep loaded with good shit. I’m very new to this and so far I’ve been using voodoo and was contemplating buying some great white, but my next run I’m going to omit all of that shit.
I've tried outdoor soil > indoor once or twice before and wasn't very successful.
General advice is to not bring outdoor soil inside and I have to say I agree with it. For starters it's more often than not too heavy for indoors, holds too much water, plus has a high chance of bringing in pests and disease.

But don't let that stop you. At the very least you'll probably want to amend it and fluff it out a bit. I'd compost it too, inside a container with a lid, out in the sun.

Nothing wrong with adding extra microbes. Though I strongly believe if growing organically you don't really need them.
Parent material in the soil and good aeration / drainage is much more important. If you have plenty and a variety of carbon rich organic material and the right soil environment, there'll be heaps of introduced and native microbial life to flourish and multiply.
Keep it simple at first, not too many amendments. Good as some soil recipes may be they often have many ingredients / amendments and can be daunting for a beginner. Also to source the materials is oftentimes far too expensive.
You can very likely source other organic materials with very similar properties and nutrient content, for cheaper and more locally.

No question is a dumb question. Hope I could provide you with an informative answer.

Good luck in your venture. Stick with it and you'll make some valuable mistakes along the way. In my own opinion experimenting with your own soil mix and inputs is a great way to start out and never stop learning.

That's my 2 cents man. Have a good 1, best of luck.
 
Frankster

Frankster

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I've tried outdoor soil > indoor once or twice before and wasn't very successful.
General advice is to not bring outdoor soil inside and I have to say I agree with it. For starters it's more often than not too heavy for indoors, holds too much water, plus has a high chance of bringing in pests and disease.

But don't let that stop you. At the very least you'll probably want to amend it and fluff it out a bit. I'd compost it too, inside a container with a lid, out in the sun.

Nothing wrong with adding extra microbes. Though I strongly believe if growing organically you don't really need them.
Parent material in the soil and good aeration / drainage is much more important. If you have plenty and a variety of carbon rich organic material and the right soil environment, there'll be heaps of introduced and native microbial life to flourish and multiply.
Keep it simple at first, not too many amendments. Good as some soil recipes may be they often have many ingredients / amendments and can be daunting for a beginner. Also to source the materials is oftentimes far too expensive.
You can very likely source other organic materials with very similar properties and nutrient content, for cheaper and more locally.

No question is a dumb question. Hope I could provide you with an informative answer.

Good luck in your venture. Stick with it and you'll make some valuable mistakes along the way. In my own opinion experimenting with your own soil mix and inputs is a great way to start out and never stop learning.

That's my 2 cents man. Have a good 1, best of luck.
I think if you know what your generally bringing in the house it's fine. I would suggest finding some healthy tree roots, or healthy area with fungi. Or simply a scoop of really, clean, healthy smelling earth. It's all about risk factors.

If your working on a budget, there's lot of good alternatives. You can also get certain organism off of things like rice wash, grain washes, wheat, sprouting alfalfa seeds, ect... Some seeds are going to naturally sprout along with some native fungi.
IMG 20211103 211306802



I can often identify many organisms simply by smells alone, and sight. But I have decades of practice. college background on this subject. It was also a small part of my practice for many years, assessing character. Pseudomonas aeruginosa smells like flowers. Streptococcus milleri smells like browned butter. I've got quite the iron stomach for all sorts of smells, things like putrefied flesh, ect. I've worked with lots of infectious pathogens, for decades. 😅 now it's a hobby.


Simply add bacteria (grain wash, or scoop yogurt) into a gallon of water, add something like 1/2 cup of unfiltered honey (best thing) or molasses, and allow them to grow. As for AM fungi, I would say best bet is healthy conifer roots, including pine, firs, spruce, hemlock, oak, hickory, alder, and beech, roots.

I even add in the occasional brewers yeast into my soils, mixtures. ie. Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Organism by no means need to be expensive. There all around us, actually, just need to isolate. But again; I do think the FF Microbrew is an excellent product, has 4o organisms, and is very reasonable priced.
 
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OutdoorGrowGuy

OutdoorGrowGuy

45
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I think if you know what your generally bringing in the house it's fine. I would suggest finding some healthy tree roots, or healthy area with fungi. Or simply a scoop of really, clean, healthy smelling earth. It's all about risk factors.

If your working on a budget, there's lot of good alternatives. You can also get certain organism off of things like rice wash, grain washes, wheat, sprouting alfalfa seeds, ect... Some seeds are going to naturally sprout along with some native fungi.
View attachment 1186501


I can often identify many organisms simply by smells alone, and sight. But I have decades of practice. college background on this subject. It was also a small part of my practice for many years, assessing character. Pseudomonas aeruginosa smells like flowers. Streptococcus milleri smells like browned butter. I've got quite the iron stomach for all sorts of smells, things like putrefied flesh, ect. I've worked with lots of infectious pathogens, for decades. 😅 now it's a hobby.


Simply add bacteria (grain wash, or scoop yogurt) into a gallon of water, add something like 1/2 cup of unfiltered honey (best thing) or molasses, and allow them to grow. As for AM fungi, I would say best bet is healthy conifer roots, including pine, firs, spruce, hemlock, oak, hickory, alder, and beech, roots.

I even add in the occasional brewers yeast into my soils, mixtures. ie. Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Organism by no means need to be expensive. There all around us, actually, just need to isolate.
Awesome stuff Frankster! Awesome.

I love the smell of humus as well, know exactly what you mean. Good earth smells amazing to me.
Never dug the smell of rotting flesh lol. But manure and fish emulsion etc, I do.

Just felt the need to suggest keeping it simple to start out with.
Only because AZ's question and original post reminded me of when I started out myself. Used soil from outside under the assumption that because it worked great outside, it would inside as well. It wasn't the case for me.
Lol, I brought it straight inside, no composting, no added aeration. Whacked it in my nice warm grow tent and bam, 2 days later bugs gallore. And to top it all off, I dressed the top of each pot with cow manure. I had a hot, stinking, bug infested mess. :D

I completely agree with you about the expense, it's not necessary to fork out money for microbes. Or buy 2 dozen different amendments for a soil mix, when you only need a handful.
Just firmly believe it's probably best as a beginner to start off simple. Problems are easier to narrow down that way in my own opinion. And it's easier to notice the effect each amendment or material has when you use or add it.

By no means meant to discourage farming your own microbes. I think that's fantastic and really cool.
I really dig the way organics is generally headed at the moment. Especially great to see permaculture practices like KNF slowly taking the lead.

My own advice was to just get in there, get your hands dirty, experiment, make some mistakes, and have some fun along the way.
 
Edinburgh

Edinburgh

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263
If your making super soil it is imperative, but a good mix made for cannabis like ffof or pro mix already has everything you need.
 
BirdLaw86

BirdLaw86

293
63
I found this when I was looking into making some KNF LAB.


Looks to be a commercial manufactured version of LAB. I know it takes some time to make a lot of those KNF cocktails so maybe this would be a little easier to get those short chain fatty acids to fatten up the terpene profiles. Also cleans up those organic smells, lol.
Bro, below are some pics and video all from the last week. Youll see LAB, FPJ, WCA, and an IMO tea. 7 to 8 days to make your own LAB, i just did it. 3 days for a IMO brewed tea, 7 to 10 days for your own calcium, you can make cal-mag by adding 2 dollar epsom salt, this KNF Jadam shit is not hard. Frankster is explaining it all in more depth but he said it clearly, these microbes are all around us for free. Just takes a bit of effort and maybe a week or two to make most of those inputs from knf. Its some of the vinegars they make that takes longer. But the easier ones are a about a week.
 
AZsunfarmer

AZsunfarmer

64
33
Nothin to it but to do it at this point I guess. I used to work a little micro, I couldn’t handle the sputum and wound cultures so I went into hematology. Thanks for the motivation tho, my kids love helping do this shit but they are too young to understand the reasons behind it. Gotta get some tomatoes going for them so they can have their own control plants. I’m sure they’ll be better at it than me.
 
OutdoorGrowGuy

OutdoorGrowGuy

45
18
Nothin to it but to do it at this point I guess. I used to work a little micro, I couldn’t handle the sputum and wound cultures so I went into hematology. Thanks for the motivation tho, my kids love helping do this shit but they are too young to understand the reasons behind it. Gotta get some tomatoes going for them so they can have their own control plants. I’m sure they’ll be better at it than me.
I'll be honest, I've tried adding extra microbes outdoors, I didn't notice a big difference myself at all. Couldn't be bothered keeping up with it for the return.

Though in fairness, I can see the point of adding extra microbes to indoor mixes in smaller pots. There's only so much new organic material one can fit.
Far as your NPK and other nutrients go though, you can get them all from organic matter.

Anyway good luck, sounds like fun.
 
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BirdLaw86

BirdLaw86

293
63
Nothin to it but to do it at this point I guess. I used to work a little micro, I couldn’t handle the sputum and wound cultures so I went into hematology. Thanks for the motivation tho, my kids love helping do this shit but they are too young to understand the reasons behind it. Gotta get some tomatoes going for them so they can have their own control plants. I’m sure they’ll be better at it than me.
Trust me bro. Just do it. A pot or a bucket, some rice water or potato water, some dirt and molases and you got the IMO tea just add a teaspoon of sea salt or pink himilayan salt for the minerals like Magnesium or Iron etc. Then the LAB is just uncooked rice water mixed into milk and just wait for a week. The FPJ is just chopped greens and brown sugar hand mixed and 5 days later its ready. If you take 20 minutes today most of it will be done and then its just waiting
 
Slickrick82

Slickrick82

212
43
I think if you know what your generally bringing in the house it's fine. I would suggest finding some healthy tree roots, or healthy area with fungi. Or simply a scoop of really, clean, healthy smelling earth. It's all about risk factors.

If your working on a budget, there's lot of good alternatives. You can also get certain organism off of things like rice wash, grain washes, wheat, sprouting alfalfa seeds, ect... Some seeds are going to naturally sprout along with some native fungi.
View attachment 1186501


I can often identify many organisms simply by smells alone, and sight. But I have decades of practice. college background on this subject. It was also a small part of my practice for many years, assessing character. Pseudomonas aeruginosa smells like flowers. Streptococcus milleri smells like browned butter. I've got quite the iron stomach for all sorts of smells, things like putrefied flesh, ect. I've worked with lots of infectious pathogens, for decades. 😅 now it's a hobby.


Simply add bacteria (grain wash, or scoop yogurt) into a gallon of water, add something like 1/2 cup of unfiltered honey (best thing) or molasses, and allow them to grow. As for AM fungi, I would say best bet is healthy conifer roots, including pine, firs, spruce, hemlock, oak, hickory, alder, and beech, roots.

I even add in the occasional brewers yeast into my soils, mixtures. ie. Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Organism by no means need to be expensive. There all around us, actually, just need to isolate. But again; I do think the FF Microbrew is an excellent product, has 4o organisms, and is very reasonable priced.
Got one how about if u mix fox farm ocean forest with a living just add water soil.what yall think would it work I'm thinking of trying it to see
 
Treecutter

Treecutter

160
63
Dumb question but why buy voodoo juice, great white, myco this and that, name your favorite brand, when it’s all in soil already? If you have healthy garden soil outside can’t you just grab a scoop and throw it in your pot and mix it in? I feel like a idiot paying for this shit. I understand it’s purified and certain strains are isolated but if you provide optimal soil conditions all that will balance itself out. There are so many amazing soils out there that literally show up on your doorstep loaded with good shit. I’m very new to this and so far I’ve been using voodoo and was contemplating buying some great white, but my next run I’m going to omit all of that shit.
I only add when adding new compost or transplanting. Good microbes kill bad microbes and no telling what you get bagged from the big box. I just started my compost pile for next year and I added a bunch to get a jump start breaking down everything.
 
GrowinYeti

GrowinYeti

8
3
As was stated earlier, bringing outside stuff into an indoor grow can be bad news if you don't know what you are looking for. Even collecting imo imoroperly, can turn an outdoor grow sour.

Spent 4 hours the other day raking leaves out of the street, while looking for worms (one stoner, two (birds) or items crossed of the list for next year).. Neighbors thought I was helping them out.

I use lacto on everything, pickling, fermenting, composting, foliar/soil drench mixed with with BTI. Just love that fermented, sweet odor.

Started this natural kick with "Americas Master Gardner" Jerry Baker, use common items purchased at the grocery store to green up your garden.
Beer for enzymes(waste of a good beer)
Soda (regular not diet) for the phosphorus and sugars
Murphy's oil soap (surfactant natural oil)
Tobacco juice (great pesticide if organically grown)
Hot peppers (get them critters gone)
Garlic (critters)
Milk bottle/carton rinse water(good old lacto)
Dish soap(surfacant)
KARO syrup (bacteria and fungi food)
Baking soda
Hydrogen peroxide (oxidizer)


And the list goes on. (Most of these inputs can now be purchased in a more organic/concentrated form)

Some simple advice-
If they give a recipe, follow it. Master the basic, then experiment.
There are inputs all around, but knowing where to look is key.

✌️
 
Freed111

Freed111

4
3
I don't do organic; and I'm huge on microbes, actually. It's just I'm not big on Nitrifying bacteria. I do use Arbuscular mycorrhiza fungi, and I use a lot of other microbes, like lactobacillus. (I use my yogurt in the fridge, mixed with water, and some molasses).

Are you saying “I use my yogurt in the fridge, mixed with water, and some molasses”
as lactobacillus?
been [email protected] tontry lactobacillus, but no where to really let it sit without stinking up everything and neighbours
 
Neuro

Neuro

Supporter
51
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If you don't want to bother with LABS and you're cheap and lazy like me, EM-1 is a good option. 3/4 cup with some molasses and water and you have an inoculant good for three months after a few weeks.
 

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