How To Not Make a Million Dollars in the Weed Business

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sky high

sky high

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My dad always told me... "Starting a business will either be the best thing you ever did or the worst thing you ever did"....

The hydroponics/grow store industry is much the same in many regards. Most wholesale purchases hover in the 20-40% below retail arena....so margins aren't what MANY folks think they are as they leave the store a couple thousand $$ lighter than when they went in. Figure in "like"costs with rent/utilities/overhead as MMC's/other businesses and the BMW's become 20 year old cars with shitty brakes very fuckin fast.

But,,,this is no secret. I think where a lot of MMJ folks who went retail went wrong was that they sold $400 oz;s for many years and did WELL....but when they went 'legit" they got caught up in a whole lot more "CODB" (Cost of doing business) aspects than they ever imagined would come there way. Kinda like when they used to look in on the hydro store guy from the outside and think how he was fuckin their ass HARD when in reality...he was scraping by like everyone else in biz for themselves.

good luck, all

s h
 
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SoCoMMJ

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Isnt there 16 oz in a lb, and not 32?

That should help with your numbers. :sun

You need 32 [two pounds] ounces to supply 1/2 ounce to 64 patients.

I stand behind my numbers that reflect a shitty margin.:sun
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

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Im gonna play devils advocate here on this thread for a min.
And I know next to nothing about bizness..
A place in central Ca. called "buds 4 life" was raking in 12k a month Net
Till they busted em.
They sold all their flowers for 10bucks a gram Max.
They had Hundreds of customers everyday all day

Most buds should be 10 bucks a gram..or less

Kinda like when they used to look in on the hydro store guy from the outside and think how he was fuckin their ass HARD when in reality...he was scraping by like everyone else in biz for themselves.

good luck, all

s h

Lets look at a hydro store guy....

How much is his markup on the stuff he sells? 100% ?

I don't think it is...

These Dispensarys mark their products up at least 100% or more..

Harborside in Oakland brings in over 1 Million a month!
Think they buy 500K in product every month?


What am I missing here?



:bong2:
 
sky high

sky high

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I don't know how much they are making, cgken...

all I know is that the hydro store guy isn't gonna see the inside of a cell for what he does.
 
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critical

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The businessman in me does not much like the falling prices. We have rent to pay, employees, etc etc. The profit margins are much thinner than people think for an MMC. You would be sick if you saw the gross vs my personal net. I guarantee you that I made less than I pay my employees, and I don't pay them much. Pretty sure it works out to well under minimum wage to me for the hours invested. Remember, a farmer works 365 days a year.

The humanist thinks that it can't be bad for the prices to come down. When people are sick they usually aren't working. Medicaid isn't covering cannabis last I heard. It's an herb for crying out loud. It should go for a few dollars a pound. Governmental retardation is the only thing pumping up the price.

Lower prices are also pressuring the marginal shops to shape up or ship out.. we are seeing lots of that happening in the last few months. The market in Colorado Springs is tough. There are way too many shops to support the patient base.

Below are some numbers that should make those thinking about jumping in to perhaps rethink the glory of owning an MMC:

125+ Colorado Springs MMCs for 12,000 patients in El Paso County. That probably leaves maybe 8,000 in Co Springs proper. 64 average per shop, if every patient used an MMC[which they don't].

If each patient averages 1/2oz a month at $100 these days that is $6400 gross/month. 32 ounces at $2200[contract price per lb] that leaves [6400-4400]= $3,000 for rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, fees, random crap and a sliver of profit[?].

Now factor in some dickheads like me that are hoggin' up the patients. If I'm pushing 300 signed patients and at least that many more unsigned patients, now all of a sudden the average numbers go down even further for the remaining shops.

With all those patients we should be golden, right? Nope, you have to factor $7k in payroll to support the volumes, $6k in Rent and utilities... you get the idea. Hell, just lunch for the crew runs a grand or so a month.

Do a little math. You can actually see that MMC owners are not typically rolling in a new BMW. While I'm not proclaiming a failure at business by any means, I'm just trying to say that the pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with turkey sandwiches, not gold. At least Turkey sandwiches are delicious.

Oh,there is that little bit of satisfaction from helping out some sick people too...

so does that mean your making about 5 and a half grand a month? i would be happy with that if so
 
K

kolah

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Ken, buying BIG is advantageous for sure. Just look at what fucking WalMart has done. They pretty much monopolized the market. The more quanity you purchase the better deal you get. Therefore, you can sell your new found treasures at a lower price than all the rest and still make a profit. Now that is business saavy at it's best. But the difficult thing is getting a shitload of money to start that type of operation. This is how large business/corporations overtake a market. I'd bet some of those big MMJ outfits do not even grow their own weed. They just "buy and sell" thereby totally eliminating their overhead. Although I could be wrong..as they may grow some themselves and buy a certain precentage as well, I dunno.

I have noticed in the past few years how many newbies (here in CO) have taken on their own grows (including myself). This will drop prices even moreso. I think it is most important for anyone thinking of opening a MMC shop to throughly study the MMJ market, it's trends and the fate of it's future. Going into a business blindly is a recipe for disaster.

So at what point (price) do MMC shops stop selling? How low will they go? How long will it take before the small shops fold under while the bigger ops take over the market. For many MMC shops this is something to kick around. What price can you sell weed and still profit. Another way to be successful is by doing some kickass marketing to increase your patient base. This way you can cut your prices because your increased patient base makes up the difference. OTOH you could create a poshy-ritzy type of business that only deals in high quality weed and you could then ask a higher price. (location can sometimes dictate that) I wonder what Aspen or Breckinridge shops get for their weed? But places like that would surely rake in more dough (if you had topnotch weed)
Now if you are in the rurals and in a poverty stricken/low income area it's a whole new ballgame.

SOCOMMJ, it sounds like you got a good base of patients. If you ever decided to go back underground I'd bet most of your folks would stay loyal to you. ..... just a thought.
 
Dorje

Dorje

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I figure it costs, per lb of weed grown...

$30 electricity
$10 fertilizers and stuff
$100 rent for the warehouse (rough estimate)
$240 labor (12 hours at $20/hr)
$200 licensing and regulatory issues

So good weed is wholesaling for about $2k/lb... Seems like there's plenty of room for the price to drop even further. Those who can't figure out how to streamline their operations, grow top quality and run a good business will soon be out of business.
 
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SSHZ

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"Indoors in non med state, flying solo, makes my world turn nicely."


ME TOO!
 
Capulator

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$30/ lb electricity? Hot damn.

its 10x that for me.
 
Capulator

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You need 32 [two pounds] ounces to supply 1/2 ounce to 64 patients.

I stand behind my numbers that reflect a shitty margin.:sun

So its 2200 for 2 lbs?

thats fucked. 1100/lb.

Sorry if I am missing something?
 
baba G

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty
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Yeah me too, I'm kinda a physics head and love math...

Hey SoCoMMJ: You mention that 6400-4400=3000
Am I just loopy or missing something too?
 
Dorje

Dorje

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$30/ lb electricity? Hot damn.

its 10x that for me.

It costs me 3x that much for residential production, that estimate is based on a typical industrial rate of 6 cents per kW-hour.

You must be in CA...
 
cemchris

cemchris

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I feel yalls pain BUT thats the cost of being semi legal I guess. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is also coming from someone in a non med state. Bet if half the clubs closed price would go back up.
 
Illmind

Illmind

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Heard west coast electricity is pricey per kwh.. Out east not so bad thanks niagra falls!
 
fishwhistle

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SOCOMMJ and others, I'll try to make this short as I could go on for days....

SOCOMMJ, I do not sugar-coat things so here it is, straight up, bro. If you are making less than your employees you are failing in your business ventures, pure and simple.

I ran a chiropractic business (solo) for 20+ years. It was no picnic. Yes, in my good years (pre 911) I made great money but never had any free time to enjoy it. When things got tight I had to make adjustments. And when things started to go downhill I decided to sell everything and cash in my chips. It got old shoveling the walkways, plowing driveways, cleaning bathrooms, hiring and firing, training, doing my books, donating time to the community, etc, etc and not to mention dealing with customers who had a host of ailments and problems. Hell no, it's not easy and non-business people do not realize what goes on behind the scenes. It is said you can not be a "nice guy" and run a sucessful business and I think there is some truth to that. As a businessman your number one job is to MAKE MONEY. Yeah it's nice to say I love my work but if you ain't making a profit you are basically fucked. One must be business-smart and have business saavy but that doesn't mean you have to be a prick about things. And do not spend ALL your friggn profits either, lol. (easier said than done)

I see and hear about some MMJ club owners going broke and then I have seen other guys making bigass bucks and riding the gravytrain. Some of the highly successful ones are scum but some folks are doing it honestly and professionally. But the latter ones have some business knowledge which covers everything form overhead costs to patient relationships. One can be an expert MJ grower but without business skills they have a high rate of failure. IMO there is no such thing as LUCK when running a business. It's hard fucking work and either you go balls-to-the-walls or you say fuck it. I stopped keeping track of my "working hours" as it was too overwhelming for me. Fuck man, I just wanted to a chiro, adjust spines, collect money and go home and party. No one told me how to be a bossman, how to run an office and especially not a business that had 6-7 employees.

Overhead will kill you. (this should have been thought about and put into your business plan documents) Adjust accordingly. There are always ways to save money. ALWAYS! But sometimes saving money will cost you YOUR time. It's a balance thing and fine tune it to your likes/dislikes. Utilities will continue to rise. There are many ways to cut costs. Think of investing in solar panels, solar heating, ect. In summer think about gowing some of your MJ outdoors. Think about driving a less expensive vehicle.

Employees. Screen them out with a passion. There is no sense hiring and training an idiot or two (been there, donme that) You want people you can trust and get things done without holding their fucking hand. Running a successful business is teamwork. Get team members who mesh into your vision. I liked to have incentives for my employees. Incentives get employees motivated and they can increase your sales while promoting your business. You can offer a smaller hourly wage and add incentive programs. Yes, in the end you may pay them more but they will generate more overall revenue for you. Keep employees part-time and do not pay for sick days, holidays and all that jazz. In the MMJ business I think a great incentive program would be to reward employees with MJ as their bonus. Hell, you may even consider paying your employees MMJ for a large portion of their entire salary (of course for legal/tax reasons you'd have to show some employee pay-out on your books). If you grow your own I would imagine it would cost you less to pay them in MMJ than paying them in dollars and cents. I also found buying my employees lunch or taking them out for the night was a nice "thank you" and they really appreciated it. Sometimes some of the little things go a long way.


OK, so here we are. In CO. Let's look into the future. Most business failures that end up in the red never see it coming. By the time they realize they are in deep shit it is far too late to bail out or save that sinking ship. I am sure most of you agree that MJ sales prices will continue to go down. IMO that's a given. As a MMJ boss/owner what adjustments will you make? That is the question. We all know prices of EVERYTHING will continue to rise (food, gas, utilities, supplies etc) except weed, lol. Do nothing and die. Do something and you may float above the red temporaly. But if you really attack it and make the correct adjustments you will kick ass. Taking business seminars and buying business operation books are often great tools to hone you skills.

If anyone is running a business and just breaking even or barely making a profit it's time to throw in the towel and take a job flipping burgers OR sit down and make serious adjustments. Lay out numbers and goals and plans how to obtain them. Have weekly or monthy meeting with employess and keep everyone on the same page. Have your goals (quotas set) and discuss it openly.

Talk with other successful MMJ club owners and find out what they are doing to make their profits. You will find that some of the most successful people have failed once or twice before (ie Donald "King of the Comb-over" Trump and money-guru Dave Ramsey). Pick the brains of the successful ones and avoid the failing ones as they will drag you down.

I know some folks like to give away their products for free. Let me tell you that it is a huge mistake to do so. The only exception is when you are making a comfortable profit. DO NOT GIVE AWAY FREE SHIT when you are trying to make a profit. When I was a young buck I was told this many years ago but I did not listen. I quickly learned that the freebie give-aways were NOT good business saavy (unless you are making a nice profit). In this day and age do not dismiss bartering with folks. I posted a list on the wall of my waiting room area that listed what items I was willing to barter spinal adjustments for
(eggs, horse hay, tools, lawnwork etc)...just make sure it is a fair exchange so no one feels ripped off.

I think I am the minority here in that I have respect for some MMJ clubs and owners. IMO not all MMJ shops are pricky scoundrels who sell moldy buds. Hell, I have seen undergrounders selling shitweed and overchanging people.

I do not know enough about all the friggin rules and regs to operate a MMJ shop but it scares the fuck out of me to even dwell on the thought. Pay thousands of dollars per year for a fucking MMJ license? Then give up and sign away many of your rights? Then rent a huge building to grow in? Then heat and cool the place? Then hire boobs to work for you who might steal your weed and give out "deals" to their buddies. Then pay outrageous taxes? Then find out you can not even deduct your business expenses?? WTF??? How about having paperwork overload where everything needs to be tagged, marked, inventoried, counted and recounted, etc? And finally after jumping through all the fucking hoops you still have to lay in bed at night wondering if a fed SWAT team will be kickng down your door? Or coming to work one day and finding the feds took all my shit including all my grow equipment?

Honestly, me thinks the underground is the ONLY way to go... But hey, that's just me.

For all my rantings, I do wish you good luck and great success, SOCOMMJ.

*revised one million times for typos and spelling errors.

Kolah,I have owned and sold 5 bussiness's and currently own 2 and this is one the most concise,truthful statements i have EVER read,thank you for taking the time.
As a side note i would like to add something,It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact your selling MJ soco,the things happening to you happen to EVERY business,once you start to squeak out a small profit they raise your taxes or the insurance goes up or fuel goes up(1/3 of my GROSS goes to diesel),I will end with this,Try hard to support the small business people in your neighborhood instead of the chains and next time you see your boss just remember he may not be getting as rich off you as you think(unless he's the 1%,LOL).
 
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SoCoMMJ

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Thanks for the comments kolah. You have been there as well and your comments are insightful and down to earth. So many think that you just toss some seeds and the money rolls in. If you can make it happen in this business, you can be successful at ANY business. Having run and sold other businesses in the past I know the pains that hide behind the curtain.

SOCOMMJ and others, I'll try to make this short as I could go on for days....

SOCOMMJ, I do not sugar-coat things so here it is, straight up, bro. If you are making less than your employees you are failing in your business ventures, pure and simple.
The MMJ business is different in that you are forced to pay all development expenses up front. There is no SBA loan here. Profits from your small initial start up HAVE to be reinvested to build the business. If you pull too much capital as dividends or payroll for yourself, the business development plan is slowed in a exponential fashion. So what if I don't have the opportunity to by fancy shit now. Reinvesting profits is difficult for new business owners and can lead to ultimate failure.

Hell no, it's not easy and non-business people do not realize what goes on behind the scenes.
That was the purpose of this thread. Have a real peek at the nuts and bolts side of the industry. From the outside it looks like you can toss some seeds and rake in the bucks. Seriously it's not that easy.

When we first started attending industry meetings years ago, I stood out like a sore thumb. Conservative business type looking individual (was a banking analyst at the time) in a room full of growers that look like they just rolled in from woodstock. These days the tide has turned and the business types are by far the majority. [for the record I have nothing against the way people dressed for woodstock :) ]

It is said you can not be a "nice guy" and run a sucessful business and I think there is some truth to that.
There is a balance. I can be a dick when necessary, but tend to be a nice guy. A nice guy can always tell you something you don't want to hear but need to.

As a businessman your number one job is to MAKE MONEY.
When we were discussing changing from caregivers to opening and MMC we made a short priority list:

1) Stay out of Jail [Failed]
2) Take care of the Patients in need
3) See if you can make a buck

1 out of 3 is ok I guess. Maybe we can fill in another one this year.

One can be an expert MJ grower but without business skills they have a high rate of failure. IMO there is no such thing as LUCK when running a business. It's hard fucking work and either you go balls-to-the-walls or you say fuck it.
This is why I started this thread. I often hear how people can grow the greatest meds in the world, followed closely with something about opening a dispensary. Trying to put the real world facts out there for people before they take a second on their house to get in the business.

Overhead will kill you
One little retarded thing right after another. There is so much under the surface people will never realize.

Think about driving a less expensive vehicle.
Impossible. My Jeep has 130,000 miles and is paid off. Run it until the wheels fall off.

Employees. Screen them out with a passion. I also found buying my employees lunch or taking them out for the night was a nice "thank you" and they really appreciated it. Sometimes some of the little things go a long way.
Employees are the most critical piece of the puzzle. The people you hire represent you and your business. We hire them for their personalily alone. You can teach anybody how to nute a tank. But you can't teach somebody how to be an awesome person. We have family style lunch for the entire crew every day and call it a business meeting. It provides the whole team to be in one place at one time and share thoughts and information relevant to the business. Growers, bud tenders, trimmers, and management all in one place at one time. Great when everybody is on the same page.


OK, so here we are. In CO. Let's look into the future. Most business failures that end up in the red never see it coming. I am sure most of you agree that MJ sales prices will continue to go down.
Just wait until Legalization 2012. I'm still trying to figure out what will really happen if that flies.

I know some folks like to give away their products for free.
Free is Illegal post HB10-1284. Nothing can go out for less than the cost to produce it. The MMJ business is different in that the customers that need your product the most are the ones least able to afford it. At some point a standard of morals comes into play in order to support these patients. Not sure, but some free might happen.

I do not know enough about all the friggin rules and regs to operate a MMJ shop but it scares the fuck out of me to even dwell on the thought.
A strong business acumen is driving the surviving MMCs. Sure you have to have a quality product, but that only helps sales, not running and surviving the business.

How about having paperwork overload where everything needs to be tagged, marked, inventoried, counted and recounted, etc?
Fuck, what a mess... Thankfully they have POS systems that are MMC specific that can handle the details and generate the required reports.


And finally after jumping through all the fucking hoops you still have to lay in bed at night wondering if a fed SWAT team will be kickng down your door?
You have no idea how many times you wake up in the middle of the night when you hear a twig snap. After our caregiver grow was raided I used to wake up after a dream of a concussion grenade coming through the bedroom window. That's some messed up shit there.

For all my rantings, I do wish you good luck and great success, SOCOMMJ.
Thanks for that. A tough skinned business man should cheer when another MMC closes up. I see it as a sad day where somebody has dumped their life and their money into a business only to end up with nothing. Hence this thread...

Know what you are getting into before you jump in. While it is the best job I have ever had, it is one of the riskiest, hardest, and most difficult to be successful in.
 
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SoCoMMJ

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so does that mean your making about 5 and a half grand a month? i would be happy with that if so
lol, no that is not what that means.

I don't think the whole list of expenses in on there . :mmm

I made more than 5k a month[only 60k a year] doing stupid spreadsheets and databases for the bank. It's not as much as you think.
 
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SoCoMMJ

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Yeah me too, I'm kinda a physics head and love math...

Hey SoCoMMJ: You mention that 6400-4400=3000
Am I just loopy or missing something too?

typo... should have been 2000.

But that has nothing to do with you loopy-ness :mmm
 
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