HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

[Aqua Man]

Hi Aquaman an automated watering system only helps control soil temperature if the temperature of the water being delivered is heated or cooled. A soil heat mat with a thermostat is a far better way to control root zone temperature. If your irrigation water is cold, the soil temp is going to cool. Of course, outside soils also go through hot cold cycles but the earth has a lot more stabilizing temperature buffering mass so the swings are slower. Dig down a few feet and most soil temps will be at 55 degrees consistently. Ground heat pumps often send loops down to 50 feet or so.

Through ice cold water on your plants see how they like it... while that may be the best way to control root temps you still should be watering with water close to the root tenps. I wasn't suggesting to control root temls with nutrient solution

 

[Aqua Man]

@Madmax, Feeding at 650 and leachate is 1000 ppm consistently suggests to me that as the roots are drawing up the nutrient solution, more water is proportionally drawn into the plant and with evapotranspiration, the nutrient solution in the soil is actually getting more concentrated between waterings. Then when you water some of the new solutions drains through and rinses some of this extra concentrated solution down and out as well. You could possibly reduce the concentration a little or water more frequently and that might bring down the runoff concentration, but might also keep your soil too wet

It's coco not soil... and there is a big difference

 

[Aqua Man]

Of course, if they were talking about yields per watt of lighting, i would have figured it out, but figuring out watering needs on a gram per watt consideration does not really compute.

That's because you quoted an answer to another response that was related to yield.

 

[Aqua Man]

No commercial greenhouse grower for any Vegetable or flower or container crop of any kind has used real soil since a little after ww2. Great dirt in the garden makes for suboptimal results in a container. It is simple physics. The airspace is often below 5 to 10%. I like 30% but 15 to 20% is usually required. Plus, you wont get nasty microbes in commercial mixes

Not sure why you quoted me here has nothing to do with your reaponse

 

[Aqua Man]

Saturated Paste, 1 to 1, all the way to 1part soil to 4parts water. There are all kinds of standardized methods. Saturated paste where you mix in just enough water to have a slurry or pancake batter will show you most closely what is happening in your soil. Many labs use more dilution because they are running many more tests and they use some kind of conversion factor to equilabrate. I have to track down some standard soil test manual to refresh my brain cells. Input is 6.2 but output is 5.7 which makes sense since your soil paste is 5.4 and bringing the 6.2 down as it reacts rinsing through the media. Now as you pout your ec 2 water through, much of it will just rush through the media but some will be absorbed to different cation sites so an ec 1.7 makes sense and shows that most of your nutes are just racing past the roots. The bit that gets left behind is what you are measuring but at least slightly diluted since you are making a slurry. While this may not be completely accurated, lets say you mix in 1 part soil and 1 part water, enough to have a testable solution for your ec meter, well your ec reading should be about 1/2 since you diluted with an equal part water. ec .8 x2 = 1.6ec so close to both input and output. For these growers that are claiming ECs of 3 to 4, i would be interested to know what a slurry test reading would show. I have never heard of such high fertilizer rates ever being used on other crops without damaging them. I started burning my plants when i slowly reached 1000ppm which is equal to EC 2.0

Again not sure why I was quoted here

 

[Aqua Man]

It is not that Salt buildup is occurring as much as the Salt concentration has gone way up since you let all the water evapotranspire leaving behind resudual salts. This could happen even if one were using a ppm of 300 or so. And this kind of fert burn or osmotic wilting can occur from even a single watering cycle where conventional salt accumulation is caused over time, especially as ET forces pull the solution towards the top of the soil where it accumulates till flushed with a large volume of fertilizer water or just plain water when an emergency occurs. It is usually better to flush with slightly lower concentration of fertilizer water unless end of life during flowering where one may choose to intentionally flush for a week or two

You answer is the exact same but 10x the words used however it is a bit more accurate

 

[Aqua Man]

@soultouch welcome aboard... you have some great info here. Will have to catch up in a bit as I been a way a few days.

Please dont take any of my challenges as anything more than a debate. Judging from what I have read you sir have some great info I would love to debate and pick the brain on.

 

[3 balls]

Manifesto style.

 

[Bbonez]

Small circulation pump or airstones will work for mixing. I use a 120gph small inline pump.

I got a 100gph pump at the local hydro store. Seems to be working.

I don't think the plants got any water last night (missed 3 cycles) because I was making some small adjustments to the timer and I think you need to hit "confirm" anytime you exit the program menu. I didn't do that. The display needs to say "timed" & "off" or it won't come on when scheduled.

 

[Aqua Man]

I got a 100gph pump at the local hydro store. Seems to be working.

View attachment 1102718

I don't think the plants got any water last night (missed 3 cycles) because I was making some small adjustments to the timer and I think you need to hit "confirm" anytime you exit the program menu. I didn't do that. The display needs to say "timed" & "off" or it won't come on when scheduled.
View attachment 1102719

Yeah you do... lol I did that drunk more than once

 

[3 balls]

@soultouch welcome aboard... you have some great info here. Will have to catch up in a bit as I been a way a few days.

Please dont take any of my challenges as anything more than a debate. Judging from what I have read you sir have some great info I would love to debate and pick the brain on.

I'm glad you clarified/translated some of that stuff. I think there's some quality info in those posts even for the mental workout it involved.
I think I deciphered the point he made regarding pot depth, with no shortage of non woven pot manufacturers these days I have tried a ton. From one to the next they tend to be deeper than wide or wider than deep, sometimes by quite a bit. If I understood correctly, it's more important that one might think to stick to the ones that come close to equal dimensions, for top feeding anyway?
I was glad to see your recommendation of feed water being close to root zone temp. I cant find it now but somebody posted recently that 60F contains 10x the oxygen of 70F, I'm guessing it closer to 10% more and not advisable in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Grownsince95]

I'm glad you clarified/translated some of that stuff. I think there's some quality info in those posts even for the mental workout it involved.
I think I deciphered the point he made regarding pot depth, with no shortage of non woven pot manufacturers these days I have tried a ton. From one to the next they tend to be deeper than wide or wider than deep, sometimes by quite a bit. If I understood correctly, it's more important that one might think to stick to the ones that come close to equal dimensions, for top feeding anyway?
I was glad to see your recommendation of feed water being close to root zone temp. I cant find it now but somebody posted recently that 60F contains 10x the oxygen of 70F, I'm guessing it closer to 10% more and not advisable in the grand scheme of things?

All of y'all mofos just putting way too much thought into this. There's a few really "simple" things to take care of regarding temp/ppm/ph and rh but in the end it's just a plant.

Everybody thinks they're gonna find the magic formula but tbh less is more.

After a while you just use your eyes

 

[Grownsince95]

I got a 100gph pump at the local hydro store. Seems to be working.

View attachment 1102718

I don't think the plants got any water last night (missed 3 cycles) because I was making some small adjustments to the timer and I think you need to hit "confirm" anytime you exit the program menu. I didn't do that. The display needs to say "timed" & "off" or it won't come on when scheduled.
View attachment 1102719

Yeah every time you cycle away from "timed" you have to hit "confirm" when you come back to it.

I have more than one dead plant to prove this! Hahah

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm glad you clarified/translated some of that stuff. I think there's some quality info in those posts even for the mental workout it involved.
I think I deciphered the point he made regarding pot depth, with no shortage of non woven pot manufacturers these days I have tried a ton. From one to the next they tend to be deeper than wide or wider than deep, sometimes by quite a bit. If I understood correctly, it's more important that one might think to stick to the ones that come close to equal dimensions, for top feeding anyway?
I was glad to see your recommendation of feed water being close to root zone temp. I cant find it now but somebody posted recently that 60F contains 10x the oxygen of 70F, I'm guessing it closer to 10% more and not advisable in the grand scheme of things?

That's PH for every 1.0 change to ph its either 10x more acidic or basic.

In terms of depth you change the amount of saturation zone... it stays the same height depending on the media so a taller pot will have a lower amount of media in tha saturation zone and short wider pots will have a higher amount in the saturation zone.

I honestly would need to sit down and look at this more to give advice. And it all changes with the media used.

 

[3 balls]

All of y'all mofos just putting way too much thought into this. There's a few really "simple" things to take care of regarding temp/ppm/ph and rh but in the end it's just a plant.

Everybody thinks they're gonna find the magic formula but tbh less is more.

After a while you just use your eyes

You're right, it's just a plant and just about anybody can grow some backyard boogie. And while none of these minor technical points is gonna change much at all, the combination of many of them produces undeniable results.

 

[3 balls]

@Aqua Man Do you turn the lights down when you flip? This thread inspired me to set aside my if it aint broke dont fix it and experiment a little. I would normally veg under more moderate light intensity but obviously this aggressive feeding needs the lighting to match. Probably easiest if I ask the question in watts. I normally veg at 750w, take them to the flower room and start at 600w, gradually working up to 1000w for a mild transition into flower. This crop has been vegging at 1000w to compensate the more aggressive feeding and and it seems like they will drown if I turn the lights down for flip. Thanks

 

[Aqua Man]

@Aqua Man Do you turn the lights down when you flip? This thread inspired me to set aside my if it aint broke dont fix it and experiment a little. I would normally veg under more moderate light intensity but obviously this aggressive feeding needs the lighting to match. Probably easiest if I ask the question in watts. I normally veg at 750w, take them to the flower room and start at 600w, gradually working up to 1000w for a mild transition into flower. This crop has been vegging at 1000w to compensate the more aggressive feeding and and it seems like they will drown if I turn the lights down for flip. Thanks

I usually hit about 45k lux in veg then drop to 40k at flip and work up to 65k lux over 2 weeks

 

[Aqua Man]

Usually give a P boost a week before and 24 hr dark at flip... can't say 100% but in the limited time I have tried I feel it does make a difference

 

[Madmax]

That's PH for every 1.0 change to ph its either 10x more acidic or basic.

In terms of depth you change the amount of saturation zone... it stays the same height depending on the media so a taller pot will have a lower amount of media in tha saturation zone and short wider pots will have a higher amount in the saturation zone.

I honestly would need to sit down and look at this more to give advice. And it all changes with the media used.

I wonder if having less in the saturation zone is beneficial for the upper roots that take in oxygen?

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

I wonder if having less in the saturation zone is beneficial for the upper roots that take in oxygen?View attachment 1103765View attachment 1103769View attachment 1103765

In soil, you want the minimum roots possible in the saturation zone. In coco, I'm quite sure it doesn't matter but I could be wrong.