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I'm doing a full defol/schwazze on the last of 3 of my outdoor Mowie Wowie in a couple days, when it's ready. The first two that were Sativa-dom and leafier have already been done twice (2 weeks apart), and both times recovered almost immediately and are booming with buds. I don't want to hijack, but if you want I can post the before/after pics from 8/21 when I schwazze'd last, and then snap a quick pic of today and how they've recovered in 10 gal fabric pots. LMK, but I think you're good to get pretty heavy-handed with a prune and defol, imo
Have you done a side by side comparison grow? One defoliating, one not? Just wondering.FWIW, her you go!
Oldest plant. I didn't take pics of the before and after from the first schwazze 2 weeks earlier, but as you can see, plenty of leaves grew back.
Before 2nd schwazze, 8/24:View attachment 1274835
After 2nd schwazze, 8/24:View attachment 1274836
I left the last 2 sets of young fan leaves at each cola tip, but otherwise, all fan leaves go. Here's a pic from this morning when I was tending the garden -- just 2 days later, and already there's plenty of fan leaves grown back to get her to finish with a proper fade:
View attachment 1274847
No old hand leaf fodder that ups the water and robs the nutrient needs, and contribute to pests and microclimates -- obvious issues outdoors. YMMV, but I hope it helps you choose!
I'm indoors in SE Michigan. Great plant count in this state!Have you done a side by side comparison grow? One defoliating, one not? Just wondering.
I keep trying to do that with the fertilizers but give up and give them all the same. Outdoor in Southeast Michigan grow.
In a way, yes, I have done a side by side. I got heavy into defoliating when I grew indoors in my closet illegally back in the 00s in the midwest. I was running some clones, and I was always real nervous about fan leaf removal because of the hubbubb about the importance of fan leaves. I was growing with a MH for veg, and a SonAgro/HPS for flower. In the summer, I always had heat and humidity issues, and the plants took up a ton of water -- especially during the stretch. Trimming was also a lot of work, and even though I was an experienced grower utilizing other training methods (FIM, topping, and ESPECIALLY supercropping), I would end up with quite a bit of larf and foxtails. It sure was pretty looking at all those fan leaves, though! One day I decided to try removing most of the big fan leaves just before flower to combat the humidity and crowding from all the new growth that my training methods brought, and it didn't hurt the plants at all. I noticed a significant improvement in the bud structure of the lower growth at harvest. It also cut down on the watering needs and lowered the reading on the hygrometer. The next run with the same clone, I did a heavy lollipop and defol a few days before 12/12 flip, and my results were even better, and that's how I grew from then on. It was many moons before schwazzing was a term, but, then again, I wasn't quite as extreme as a full schwazze back then, but I removed a lot, and was pretty quick to yank fan leaves at will throughout flower.Have you done a side by side comparison grow? One defoliating, one not? Just wondering.
I keep trying to do that with the fertilizers but give up and give them all the same. Outdoor in Southeast Michigan grow.
That’s amazing. I am bit hesitant to Schwazze but I may try it. I am definitely going thin out the larf and maybe some foxtails. Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s really helpful to see the pics and understand it better outdoors. I’ve seen schwazzing indoors but not outdoors.In a way, yes, I have done a side by side. I got heavy into defoliating when I grew indoors in my closet illegally back in the 00s in the midwest. I was running some clones, and I was always real nervous about fan leaf removal because of the hubbubb about the importance of fan leaves. I was growing with a MH for veg, and a SonAgro/HPS for flower. In the summer, I always had heat and humidity issues, and the plants took up a ton of water -- especially during the stretch. Trimming was also a lot of work, and even though I was an experienced grower utilizing other training methods (FIM, topping, and ESPECIALLY supercropping), I would end up with quite a bit of larf and foxtails. It sure was pretty looking at all those fan leaves, though! One day I decided to try removing most of the big fan leaves just before flower to combat the humidity and crowding from all the new growth that my training methods brought, and it didn't hurt the plants at all. I noticed a significant improvement in the bud structure of the lower growth at harvest. It also cut down on the watering needs and lowered the reading on the hygrometer. The next run with the same clone, I did a heavy lollipop and defol a few days before 12/12 flip, and my results were even better, and that's how I grew from then on. It was many moons before schwazzing was a term, but, then again, I wasn't quite as extreme as a full schwazze back then, but I removed a lot, and was pretty quick to yank fan leaves at will throughout flower.
I'm no scientist, and don't claim to be, so I can only speculate why it works.
Another story that I'll share is one I remember reading from a grower that left his indoor grow on autopilot for a few days without checking during flower, and came back fo find his plants had outgrown his light height. He said the buds above the light discharge were real underdeveloped, even if the fan leaves were right under the light. The general consensus was always that the fan leaves under each cola are what transpire and photosynthesize for bud growth, but clearly this wasn't the case. There is indeed chlorophyll in buds and sugar leaves, and getting lots of air and lots of good light on all the buds simply makes them grow better.
As for the nutes, I don't really use them in my living soil mix, at least not directly. It's the soil biome that I feed. I'll do various kelp and aloe teas throughout the grow, particularly to combat heat stress, as well as some compost and carb teas, some cyto during veg; but I pretty much just use good water, don't worry about any flushing at the end, and usually the fade takes care of itself. A good fade really brings out those terps, and drastically improves the smoke-ability. I don't like seeing a lot of green close to harvest, and I the last thing I want to see close to the chop is curling leaf edges or any signs of burn, regardless of what the buds look like!
Looks good. I do need to thin the bottoms on mine. This is a good example of it. The challenge with 7-10” plants is how much to take off… 30% seems crazy to me, like 2-3” of growth.I do light defoliation on leaves outdoors, mostly for airflow purposes. Any giant fan leaves that begin to degrade come off, as well as any damaged or dying leaves, lower branches that will be larf, underside branches that are just clogging up my scrog. I did another haircut yesterday and that will probably be my last big one now that we're in flower, just maintenance now. This is 2 plants scrogged together. About 7.5 x 4 feet in area, big girl in the back needs some more thinning out. View attachment 1274968View attachment 1274969
You're welcome! Yeah, it's def more of an indoor technique, but I think that's only because ppl think solely about the light penetration aspect of it, and figure that big ol' sun moving at different angles hits the whole canopy, but like I said, that's only one of the benefits. I think Mr. Haupt had a pretty good analogy when he compared it to the plants working out/weightlifting, tearing down fiber and coming back stronger. It's not going to save a bad grow or turn bad genetics into good genetics. There's reports of ppl really F'ing up their plants as well. You got a nice plant on your hands, and you'll get great meds out of that, so you'll be good, whatever you choose.That’s amazing. I am bit hesitant to Schwazze but I may try it. I am definitely going thin out the larf and maybe some foxtails. Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s really helpful to see the pics and understand it better outdoors. I’ve seen schwazzing indoors but not outdoors.
Yeah it's a lot when they are already that big, can shock them, best to keep up on it when they are small and in veg.Looks good. I do need to thin the bottoms on mine. This is a good example of it. The challenge with 7-10” plants is how much to take off… 30% seems crazy to me, like 2-3” of growth.
Wow if that's week 4 she's definitely experiencing some type of heavy stress growmie!. She should be stacked with buds by now, maybe she too busy repairing what youbtearing off, thing of those big fan leaves as solar pa els to feed your plant, better to tuck than cut away. Just my 10 cents growmie! Much Love!I did a defoliant today and end of week 4 of flowering, before and after attached. Not a lot, just big fan leaves in the way of air flow.
You would be 100% right. Huge stress on this plant during her veg cycle and once she was in flowering, we had a huge hail storm and snapped a few branches so it took a week or so to heal from that.Wow if that's week 4 she's definitely experiencing some type of heavy stress growmie!. She should be stacked with buds by now, maybe she too busy repairing what youbtearing off, thing of those big fan leaves as solar pa els to feed your plant, better to tuck than cut away. Just my 10 cents growmie!
Wow if that's week 4 she's definitely experiencing some type of heavy stress growmie!. She should be stacked with buds by now, maybe she too busy repairing what youbtearing off, thing of those big fan leaves as solar pa els to feed your plant, better to tuck than cut away. Just my 10 cents growmie! Much Love!
Yeah I only take off degrading or damaged leaves usually, I get a little more intense once airflow becomes an issue and fall sets it... but mine have so many leaves. There's definitely stress whenever you remove anything, and it's using resources to close the area. Also, anything you leave behind has the possibility to invite mold to grow, and any wound is an opening for pathogens. It's a delicate balance, easy to over do it once you're on a roll... but yeah the fans in that pic all look nice and healthy, I don't usually remove them until they start to degrade and be less efficient or get chewed on by grasshopper or something. Anything damaged is taking resources to repair and is not functioning as it should to aid photosynthesis, so those are the ones I take off. Just my 2 cents, everyone does shit different. Mine also get a dose of food directly after a defol sesh to help them repair.Wow if that's week 4 she's definitely experiencing some type of heavy stress growmie!. She should be stacked with buds by now, maybe she too busy repairing what youbtearing off, thing of those big fan leaves as solar pa els to feed your plant, better to tuck than cut away. Just my 10 cents growmie! Much Love!
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