humates/fulvics

  • Thread starter Buddy Hemphill
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Buddy Hemphill

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Since Cali can't label fulvics, what are you guys using?

The guy at the store suggests The Mad Farmer N.U.T.S. (Nutrient Up Take Solution) for the fulvic and Advanced Horticulture (the yellow bottles)Bloom Humate for the humic.

Anybody had experience with these or suggestions for something better?

TIA
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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First, I think it would help you if you understood what humic acids are and what's in them. Fulvic acid is but one component of the suite of humic acids. Therefore, if you use humic acid, you're already getting fulvic.

I use ag supplies, organic, Humax. Also have used MicroHume, it definitely has its place (no huge mess trying to shake a gallon jug of some SERIOUSLY black stuff), but it's very hydrophobic and so you need something like SM90 to get it into suspension.

The Humax is sourced from a supply outfit right in Grass Valley.
 
leadsled

leadsled

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Have not used Mad farmer but look good and price is not bad. Humate bloom I have used it is good but little bit pricey. Some of the yellow bottle products are more concentrated than other brands but not sure about the humate bloom. Can get a gallon of another product for same price as 2.5l of humate bloom.

I been using BioAg fulpower for fulvic. Humic 12 for humic. But going for humisolve powder when out. (Longer shelf life)

Seamaiden has a good point. But if I want to foliar I need fulvic alone for that.

If you want to save $$ then just get the humic. I like to use fulvic as foliar so I get both. Then I am not breaking the bank and still see an improvement.

The plant can uptake the fulvic, the humic is more so feeding the medium's life. Other than kelp/seaweed have not seen plants respond like they do to foliar fulvic. Also goes much farther as a foliar. Then I feed the rootzone the humic.

My understanding is that humic particles are too large to be absorbed by the plant so they feed the medium and chelate nutrients so humic is better fed to the root zone and not used as a foliar.
 
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dusty

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I used to use HumiSolve but switched up to Humax because I don't like having to strain off the HumiSolve every time or waiting for it to break down. The Humax is like ready to go already HumiSolve... I rock Ful Power foliar sprays...
 
Blaze

Blaze

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Wait Cali can't label Fulvics - you sure about that? Why can I buy fulvic products in all the grow stores in my area? Anyway, I had been using Liquid Karma but switched recently to BioFlora Humega to cut costs.

Here's some info to check out on humic & fulxic acid if you want to learn more about them and how they work:

http://www.teravita.com/Humates/HumateIntro.htm
 
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dican01

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Wait Cali can't label Fulvics - you sure about that? Why can I buy fulvic products in all the grow stores in my area? Anyway, I had been using Liquid Karma but switched recently to BioFlora Humega to cut costs.

Here's some info to check out on humic & fulxic acid if you want to learn more about them and how they work:

http://www.teravita.com/Humates/HumateIntro.htm

the way a product is described, guaranteed and marketed is largely governed by state agricultural regulatory departments. unfortunately, there is no “standardized” analytical method for quantification, and accepted labeling practices often vary greatly from state to state. for example, california and oregon will not allow the term fulvic acid to be used on any product label. instead these state agencies consider fulvic and humic acid the same substance and require that only humic acid be used on labels. this creates analytical challenges and mass confusion for those products that are fulvic isolates, having no measurable humic acid in them. this might help to explain why some products will guarantee a product as 0.01 per cent and others may be claiming eight per cent.
 
true grit

true grit

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Ill post a good link later. I personally prefer Humic12 from age old when im adding humic/fulvic.....
 
Blaze

Blaze

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The Liquid Karma does boost nutrient uptake. This has been confirmed in University studies and with what I have personally seem with my own sap readings, which is why I've used it in the past. It is pricey though.

Not all humics are created equal and there are in fact several different types of humics so you may be getting different humics from product to product.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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If you got a good sniffer, Does your humic acid product smell like ammonia?


I used to use HumiSolve but switched up to Humax because I don't like having to strain off the HumiSolve every time or waiting for it to break down. The Humax is like ready to go already HumiSolve... I rock Ful Power foliar sprays...

Thanks for sharing Good to know it is a pain to mix up. The powder appealed to me because it was supposed to give a longer shelf life. Also would not give off an ammonia smell. Was giving me a false alarm on a tea brew.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I forgot about that question, sorry! I smell no ammonia scent in my Humax.
 
iscrog4food

iscrog4food

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i have 2 questions on this issue.

1) I am currently using mad farmer NUTS and AN F-1. Is this overkill since it was mentioned that humic acid contains fulvic?

2) when are you guys foliaring the fulvic? during flower or veg? If in flower how far in?

Thanks for the help.
 
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Bioponic

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First, I think it would help you if you understood what humic acids are and what's in them. Fulvic acid is but one component of the suite of humic acids. Therefore, if you use humic acid, you're already getting fulvic.

I use ag supplies, organic, Humax. Also have used MicroHume, it definitely has its place (no huge mess trying to shake a gallon jug of some SERIOUSLY black stuff), but it's very hydrophobic and so you need something like SM90 to get it into suspension.

The Humax is sourced from a supply outfit right in Grass Valley.

The above statement is true, but original material will depict how much fulvic is present and the sources will vary greatly. For example true leonardite only contains around 2-3% fulvic in the parent material while other sources can contain 5-7 times as much fulvic. Processing also has allot to do with the end product as well. Heat and large amounts of chemicals will lower efficacy. As Blaze pointed out not all humic substances (humic and or fulvic) are created equally. This statement rings true for both the raw material and finished products.

If a product smells like ammonia then ammonia was probably used in the extraction process. Ammonia is not preferred as an extraction solvent to make high quality humic . Be careful as some people smell what they think
is ammonia but it may be residual compounds form other extraction alkalis like KOH. Liquid humic products (I am referring to true humic i.e. black products) are in a alkali environment which catalyzes hydrolysis (break-down) of the product overtime. The one saving grace is that the fulvic fraction will still be stable because of it's chemical structure. That is if there is any significant fulvic in there in the first place.

That being said the only way to know how one product stacks up against another it to test them out. I have found that foliar tests are the fastest but a little subjective when comparing products but can provide quite a bit of info vs a control. Microbial stimulation is less subjective but you have to make sure there aren't other humic like materials in any of the other tea ingredients that will throw off the test. But if they give good stimulation to the microbes in the tea they will do the same for your plants! :happy Also pay attention to the bacterial to fungal ratios on your tea reports. It is easy to stimulate bacteria but more difficult to raise the fungal to bacterial ratios, that is the key when it comes to tea stimulation.

I use HumiSolve for outdoor plants and it does not take long to solubalize also I have never found a need to strain any sediment (not enough to mess or plug things) even when I messed with it for aeroponics.

Mostly I use Ful-Power with all my sprays and in my reservoir. I have tried most on the market and never found a fulvic product that compares to it. I find that chemically extracted fulvic products give way too much nutrient value that causes fertilizer imbalances or conversely they don't provide enough fulvic because they lower the application rates to avoid the aforementioned nutrient antagonizations.
 
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Roshambo

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ive heard flushing with humic acids in the first week of flush isnt a bad idea, supposedly the plants love it if there over 8 weekers.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I'm curious what that's supposed to achieve. Allow better uptake of available phosphorous (one of the pleasant surprises of working with humics)? I don't know that I want that to happen during flush.

Bioponic, fantastic post/information.
 
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Bioponic

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Anything that will chelate nutrients (i.e. simple sugars, amino acids, fulvic, citric or other sequestering agents) can help "flush". But we should take a step back and really define what you mean by flushing. When it comes to soils if you are trying to flush you want to leach away excess salt minerals out of the media. When you are trying to "finish" a plant you want to encourage the plant to use up nutrients "in the pipeline". I think finishing is what most people are trying to achieve. The idea is to rid any nutrients that are free in the plant to be incorporated through the biological labyrinth if you will. The end result will be a product that produces minimal ash that will be white instead of black and tar like with a metallic taste. So now things that catalyze metabolic processes and have no nutrient value are going to be more appropriate. This equates to fulvic, citric, simple sugars and avoiding things like molasses and aminos. The humic fraction is not appropriate because it is too large to enter the plant and therefore cannot positively effect the utilization of nutrients within the plant.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Others might define flushing as simply ridding the media of nutrient salts so they are unavailable to the plant. I'm not sure how chelation translates to flushing in that sense, chelation as I understand it (have understood it for quite a few years) is essentially making certain molecule chains that are more "bio-available", which would mean that whatever nutrients are stored in the media would then be made more readily available to the plant for use.

What's very interesting is that every time I use molasses or malted barley extract through finish, I gain an excellent product that tastes great and burns very well.
 
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