patro46
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Genetics are going to have the biggest impact on terpenes levels and profiles by far. There may be nutritional (increased sulphur) and environmental adjustments (read about vapor pressure deficit if you are not familiar) you can make to improve things but nothing that will likely substantially change what you are already seeing with your current strains. What kind results did you get and what are you comparing them to? Lab results in general have been found to be notoriously inconsistent and unreliable, a second opinion from another lab might not be a bad idea just to see if there is any difference.I'm in a real pickle. When Oklahoma's gold rush for cannabis opened up, I jumped in, as I've grown under the radar since the 70's, and had been using hydroponics before names for many methods were even invented. I was growing in a room full of 3 inch PVC piping with plastic Solo cups on what is now called "nutrient film techniqueView attachment 1111697 and have since grown in flood and drain and top fed constant recirculating systems, so I feel I'm pretty well versed in how to grow hydroponically, and I'm not bragging. Follow along...
So when Oklahoma went legal, we bought land and built a 10,000 sq ft facility specifically for growing cannabis, and to do so hydroponically. After all, it just made sense. Fast forward to our first harvest and results from the laboratory full panel testing. We were stellar in having a clean product (no pesticides, bugs, ect) and pretty high THC (26%+) levels, however the terpene levels were well below par. Mind you, I've grown for 40 years and never even knew what a terpene profile was. It was either fruity, skunky or whatever. I never had a number to tie to a strain. Now, it's required.
Well, folks don't seem to care about anything other than a high terpene ratio from say 2.0 to 6.0, and ours clocked in quite a bit less (.55 to .99) on our high THC producer. Mind you, folks that claim a 6. terp ratio in my opinion (and that of many testing lab owners) in utter BS.
Nonetheless, I am faced with a few potential realities.
1. I simply had the wrong genetics
2. Growing hydroponically can't create the stellar terpene profiles growing organic can.
Anyway, that's how I'm seeing this. Whatever it is, if we are to be successful, we have to figure this thing out.
So I am hoping the 100's of years of combined grow knowledge lurking in this forum will chime in with some good news. I NEED some!
Can you elaborate on that? I've not heard of doing this or what it tells you.take tissue samples of the plants along the way of the grow so you can see what they’re actually up taking and what they might need more of etc.
I’ve seen legal facilities send in tissue samples of their plans in veg, midway through flower etc. and send them into a lab and they can tell you how much of each nutrient the plant is actually absorbing. Cross that with the amount of each element you’re putting in and you can even test the runoff and see what it’s not eating. Maybe op can up the sulfur to increase terp levels and that should give him the most accurate picture of what the plants are up taking in what amountsCan you elaborate on that? I've not heard of doing this or what it tells you.
Interesting, I'll look that up and read more about it. Thanks.I’ve seen legal facilities send in tissue samples of their plans in veg, midway through flower etc. and send them into a lab and they can tell you how much of each nutrient the plant is actually absorbing. Cross that with the amount of each element you’re putting in and you can even test the runoff and see what it’s not eating. Maybe op can up the sulfur to increase terp levels and that should give him the most accurate picture of what the plants are up taking in what amounts
Not that I’m aware of although that would be very interesting. All the ones I’ve seen are during veg and/or flowerwas the test after they cured?
Hey brother, can you spare a link?so, maybe it is in the curing process. do you have to cure it, or can it be tested "live"?
from a study i had read:
"Findings show that at the fresh, planted state, a cultivar has the highest expression of monoterpenes like Beta Myrcene, Alpha Pinene, Beta Pinene, and Limonene. After one week of drying and curing, each of these terpenes decreased significantly — Beta Myrcene content decreased by 55%. While monoterpenes were decreased during the curing process, sesquiterpenes like Alpha Humulene and Beta-Caryophyllene were increased. Sesquiterpenes almost doubled in their ratio from the total terpene content in data taken after the harvest processes were complete, with Alpha-Humulene increasing 100% and Germacrene increasing 154%."
"Many compounds in the plant are highly volatile, evaporating from plants with the smallest change in the atmosphere. Monoterpenes have a lower molecular weight and higher evaporation rate, the patterns shown by this research supports our current understanding of the volatile nature of cannabis compounds. The study results also showed the significant evaporation curve of some other highly volatile compounds responsible for the cannabis top aromatic notes."
This is a great idea and I've seen something like it on youtube.I am SO glad I posted this question. I couldn't wait to hear you folks chime in, and you did. Like a confirmation of sorts for me. Here are my thoughts, and I've given it a lot to it lately.
First, my partner and I didn't see eye to eye, and he was more or less a self-anointed "expert". HJis way or the highway, so to speak. I'm a country boy who isn't an idiot but who isn't afraid to change things up if I see they aren't working. Insanity is the result of repeating what isn't working. Anyway, here is what I seen I didn't like.
The drying process. I ALWAYS took the entire plant and hung her upside down. He took the plant apart and hung the branches. I feel it dried out too fast. I feel that the dry room needed to be 65 to 68 deg, and be kept in the dark at around 60% rh. 72 deg was more like it. Worse still, the dry room doubled over as a processing room, meaning people and lights on were in the room quite a bit during the "cure".
In addition, we grew a Jack Herer variety that clocked 2.2 on the terp ratio, not stellar, but not terrible. Again, I thought it lacked "smell appeal".
Someone asked at what stage was the product tested. After the cure, more specifically when the product tested between 10 and 14% moisture, it then went in for testing.
The cure. It started in mason jars, like we'd always done before, however, at this level of a grow, 100's of mason jars simply wasn't a realistic option either. So I took food grade plastic 5 gallon buckets and equipped them with air tight screw on Gama Seal lids. I then added two one way valves to each bucket. This way, each day I can time a pump to come on and exchange the air in each bucket. Since the valves are spring loaded, no air leaves or comes in unless the air pump is running. I put about 1.5 lbs in each bucket, and buckets are rotated each day. To simplify the monitoring process, each bucket has a temp/humidity sensor that reports humidity level and temperature in each bucket. Here's a visual.
View attachment 1111847View attachment 1111849View attachment 1111848
I haven't found much research on the subject, but found a lot of opinions, from "you can't cure in plastic", "it has to be glass" to "why not, long as it's food safe and sealed?" to "cool looking" ect. ect. I simply don't know, but then again, it it might be genetics all along, which is being changed up as I speak. It might have been the drying process or the curing process. Maybe both? The only thing I'm pretty sure of is it's something we've discussed.
What I'd LOVE to find is a commercial grower who is growing hydroponically and having success in bringing out the terps. Be a "feel good" moment for me, no doubt. Tough to find this in the commercial arena. I hate to have to change growing methods, as I'm already set up with a large chiller and am able to keep a perfect 68 deg root zone 24/7 as well as react to changes or problems much faster than with a soil based media. (We use expanded clay). This also isn't the "cheapest" method of growing. Probably one of the most expensive, but the goal was to bring a BETTER product to market, not a worse one. However if we have to change growing methods, I need to prove this and get r done.
I'm almost betting I'm gonna get b*tch slapped by a handful of you guys as it almost sounds like a handful of problems are combining into a very expensive nightmare.
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