I already messed up bloom

[ccoki]

5gal, peat ewc perlite mix. Osyter shell flour. I can see roots all across the surface through the mulch so I probably should have used a bigger pot for bloom.

Transition/bloom dry amends: tomato tone to 0-10-10 eb stone.
300w led bar light.

usually 1gal of ro water ph around 6.5


I forgot to pH an Epsom salt/molasses watering and this showed up the next morning on most of the fan leaves starting at the bottom.

I did not water my other plant and it doesn't have these symptoms.

Any thoughts or advice?

Thank you.

 

[Ninjadogma]

Your soil environment is probably sitting below 5.8 if you're giving mag sulfate and it's not eating it. Check your runoff ph to see where it's at, and adjust your input to a higher number to bring it up if needed. While you're looking, you might as well also take a peek at EC too to make sure a high value isn't contributing to poor uptake.

Edit: The earlier photo of the sick leaf looks like it's got some WPM but could just be the image contrast... now taking that into account and looking closer I'm not so sure all your spots are mag or cal. There's some lighter region around some of the spots, could also be developing leaf septoria.

 

[Ninjadogma]

This looks like White Powdery Mildew to me. It follows a pleating pattern so it could just be mag stripping as an early sign of the deficiency.

The leaf below with spots circled in light blue, this to me looks like classic magnesium spotting. The one I circled with red looks similar at first, but look at the lighter regions forming around the spots. This is what has me concerned you MIGHT also have septoria going on.

 

[ccoki]

Ahh I see what you mean, there isn't any wpm on the plant, thats just a flash reflection thankfully.

Temps 78-75°f and rh 40-45% , consistently.

Extra clip on fans across canopy and below.


water with ro water ph 6.5, slowly, usually once a week.


Hope it's not septoria! But you are right it definitely looks like it.

 

[pnwbluntman]

Ahh I see what you mean, there isn't any wpm on the plant, thats just a flash reflection thankfully.

Temps 78-75°f and rh 40-45% , consistently.

Extra clip on fans across canopy and below.


water with ro water ph 6.5, slowly, usually once a week.


Hope it's not septoria! But you are right it definitely looks like it.

You may want to adjust your watering schedule as well. Not watering enough can cause ec spikes and bind nutrients. I would keep a close eye on the septoria possibility. I would defoil as well to help out some of the nutrients to the bloom sites. If your ec is to high then it's time for a flush. @Ninjadogma is pretty damn knowledgeable on helping out with issues, good person to have help from. The new growth looks healthy. So I would lean towards a problem in the roots, same thing ninja said in the first reply.

 

[ccoki]

You both helped me a lot by referencing ec.

First I was confused, then I realized the only reason youd say that is if it involves putting direct salts in.

Checked the bag. Oops. Bad product choice and timing. 0-10-10 is Bone meal and a potassium salt.


Flushed (6ph runoff), defoliated and added a light layer of soil and a cover over the roots at the surface and I'm leaving it alone until next watering.

Thanks for the help!

 

[crimsonecho]

0-10-10 is devoid of any N which plants use very heavily in bloom especially at the beginning.

 

[ccoki]

0-10-10 is devoid of any N which plants use very heavily in bloom especially at the beginning.

Yeah, Tomato tone has fast and slow release nitrogen, I usually use it through bloom, but also haven't had a plant in flower in over a year. this was a very stupid move and my plant is paying for it.

 

[pnwbluntman]

Depending on the ewc you used you will probably be fine at this point, how far are you into bloom?

 

[pnwbluntman]

Also looks like you could probably bump your light intensity up a bit as well. I have seen people do more stupid stuff then this, you are missing something rather than just throwing whatever at it. It doesn't really look like you are having a nitrogen deficiency in the new growth, probably used some from of the lower leaves, that's probably why you have a little yellowing in the older leaves, it's not going to hurt your grow much if your past week 4 to not have any nitrogen, check your ewc, usually there is a little bit of nitrogen in most ewc, normal ranges for ewc is 1-0-0 to 5-5-3. You don't normally use ewc for your main source of nitrogen. Is that all the nutrients you have atm?

 

[crimsonecho]

Yeah, Tomato tone has fast and slow release nitrogen, I usually use it through bloom, but also haven't had a plant in flower in over a year. this was a very stupid move and my plant is paying for it.

haven’t used that myself but 0-10-10 means it has zero nitrogen which is not good in any phase of plant development.

ewc is a gentle source of nitrogen you can enrich that mix with ewc ofc bone meal breaks down slower than ewc however regularly topdressing with ewc all through the veg and bloom till harvest will provide a steady supply of nitrogen to your plant.

happy growing

 

[pnwbluntman]

I have ran the Alaska bloom 0-10-10 in the past using things to amend for nitrogen. But that wasn't for my cannabis plants that was just for my flower bed outside. I stray away from funky ferts for my cannabis. I have tried a lot of nutrient brands throughout the years. If you are looking for easy nutrients to use that are affordable, there is cronk nutrients that's cheaper and works ok, also lotus nutrients. Lotus is a little bit more than cronk, but I have seen better results from lotus, they are great entry level nutrients. What I have been using for the last couple years is cyco nutrients. There's a lot of nutrients that will get the job done. You may want to look into different people using different nutrients to see what matches what you want to do. I have ran canna nutrients, fox farm, and quite a few more. I haven't tried gaia green, but I would say running gaia products using biochar and the synergy and the all purpose 4-4-4 and the bloom nutrients and ewc, is some of the easiest grows to follow and repeat for home grows. There is a lot of people here using different nutrients, so finding help selecting nutrients that are best for you and for your future grows, THC farm should help you. I would suggest just finding what matches what you have to spend on nutrients as well what you are trying to achieve in the long run. There's a million ways to skin a cat, but they all follow the similar principle.

 

[Habytual]

Unrelated, but I’m curious where did you get that pot? Have never seen a fabric pot like that with art on it

 

[Ninjadogma]

You both helped me a lot by referencing ec.

First I was confused, then I realized the only reason youd say that is if it involves putting direct salts in.

Checked the bag. Oops. Bad product choice and timing. 0-10-10 is Bone meal and a potassium salt.


Flushed (6ph runoff), defoliated and added a light layer of soil and a cover over the roots at the surface and I'm leaving it alone until next watering.

Thanks for the help!


View attachment 2583429

I think some better explanation is in order. When we use the term "salts" we are really referring to the nutrients that plants eat. They are minerals in ionized form dissolved in water, which makes them "salts." If you are growing in soil, they can accumulate in your soil if you're under watering or not watering correctly even at times you aren't even pouring additional nutrients into the soil.

A 0-10-10 is fine to use, you just need to make sure it's a good ppm of it and not overdone, and if you're using something like Morbloom just know you definitely want to check pH because they use phosphoric acid as a stabilizer.

0-10-10 is devoid of any N which plants use very heavily in bloom especially at the beginning.

Actually, plants don't use much N at all in bloom and if you're putting it in it will interfere with flower development and terpene/trichome production. But they do need trace amounts to maintain chlorophyll. Fox bloom is something like 0-5-4 and the only reason they leave it out is they assume you'll be using their accompanying Cal Mag product with light N and micronutrients to make up the full ratio feed.

 

[Ninjadogma]

I have ran the Alaska bloom 0-10-10 in the past using things to amend for nitrogen. But that wasn't for my cannabis plants that was just for my flower bed outside. I stray away from funky ferts for my cannabis. I have tried a lot of nutrient brands throughout the years. If you are looking for easy nutrients to use that are affordable, there is cronk nutrients that's cheaper and works ok, also lotus nutrients. Lotus is a little bit more than cronk, but I have seen better results from lotus, they are great entry level nutrients. What I have been using for the last couple years is cyco nutrients. There's a lot of nutrients that will get the job done. You may want to look into different people using different nutrients to see what matches what you want to do. I have ran canna nutrients, fox farm, and quite a few more. I haven't tried gaia green, but I would say running gaia products using biochar and the synergy and the all purpose 4-4-4 and the bloom nutrients and ewc, is some of the easiest grows to follow and repeat for home grows. There is a lot of people here using different nutrients, so finding help selecting nutrients that are best for you and for your future grows, THC farm should help you. I would suggest just finding what matches what you have to spend on nutrients as well what you are trying to achieve in the long run. There's a million ways to skin a cat, but they all follow the similar principle.

Alaska and Lennox 0-10-10 bloom are fine for cannabis and to fill in the N gap you can use a very light amount of their 5-1-1 fish fertilizer. If you use them you'll just want a couple other things to fill in some micro gaps like epsom, gypsum, fulvics/humic, etc. as well as some microbe and myco recharges that you'd normally get included with your commercial cannabis nutrients.

 

[ccoki]

Unrelated, but I’m curious where did you get that pot? Have never seen a fabric pot like that with art on it

3 years ago on Amazon.
I found a few different designed pots on there recently, couldn't pass them up.

 

[crimsonecho]

I think some better explanation is in order. When we use the term "salts" we are really referring to the nutrients that plants eat. They are minerals in ionized form dissolved in water, which makes them "salts." If you are growing in soil, they can accumulate in your soil if you're under watering or not watering correctly even at times you aren't even pouring additional nutrients into the soil.

A 0-10-10 is fine to use, you just need to make sure it's a good ppm of it and not overdone, and if you're using something like Morbloom just know you definitely want to check pH because they use phosphoric acid as a stabilizer.



Actually, plants don't use much N at all in bloom and if you're putting it in it will interfere with flower development and terpene/trichome production. But they do need trace amounts to maintain chlorophyll. Fox bloom is something like 0-5-4 and the only reason they leave it out is they assume you'll be using their accompanying Cal Mag product with light N and micronutrients to make up the full ratio feed.

ai summary bc its easier: “Nitrogen is crucial for plants as a core component of proteins, DNA/RNA, enzymes, and chlorophyll, driving vigorous growth, cell division, photosynthesis (energy production), and nutrient/water absorption; it supports strong roots, vibrant green leaves (due to chlorophyll), and overall plant structure, impacting everything from seedling development to grain/fruit formation. Insufficient nitrogen leads to stunted growth and yellowing (chlorosis), while adequate amounts ensure healthy, dark green foliage and high yields, though excess can cause environmental issues”

nitrogen is not only for chlorophyll production in plants its an essential nutrient and doesnt interfere with anything. can you provide scientific evidence on your claim?

 

[ccoki]

I have 30gal batch of soil, that I use for the smaller pots now, cooking on the side in a container w/ beneficials&worms.

after I get it tested and a bit more practice, I'm going to move back into the 30gal fabric bed.


The ewc is from my worm bin and if that's not ready I'll use bagged.

I have
Biotone 4-3-3, tree tone 6-3-2, garden tone. 3-4-4, tomato tone 3-4-6, 4-4-4 , 5-10-10, 0-10-10, bone meal, muriate of potash, triple phos, gypsum, langebenite, azomite, oyster shell flour, lime, neem cake, bat guano, Myco, supercharge w kelp etc
Calimagic, gh flora series

 

[Ninjadogma]

ai summary bc its easier: “Nitrogen is crucial for plants as a core component of proteins, DNA/RNA, enzymes, and chlorophyll, driving vigorous growth, cell division, photosynthesis (energy production), and nutrient/water absorption; it supports strong roots, vibrant green leaves (due to chlorophyll), and overall plant structure, impacting everything from seedling development to grain/fruit formation. Insufficient nitrogen leads to stunted growth and yellowing (chlorosis), while adequate amounts ensure healthy, dark green foliage and high yields, though excess can cause environmental issues”

nitrogen is not only for chlorophyll production in plants its an essential nutrient and doesnt interfere with anything. can you provide scientific evidence on your claim?

Can you prove what your AI told you? I presume you expect something peer reviewed, so here you go. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/plant-science/articles/10.3389/fpls.2021.764103/full

 

[crimsonecho]

Can you prove what your AI told you? I presume you expect something peer reviewed, so here you go. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/plant-science/articles/10.3389/fpls.2021.764103/full

some conclusions from the study you shared:

Visual analysis of contour graphs (with a 5 g resolution) show that yield responded to N best in the range of 160–230 mg L–1, and P in the range of 40–80 mg L–1(Figure 2).

The optimal concentrations of nutrient solution N and P was predicted to be approximately 194 mg L–1 N, and 59 mg L–1 P, respectively.

Nutrient supply, especially N, can determine cannabis plant size as N is an essential component of plant chlorophyll and ribulose-1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase-oxygenase (Rubisco). Low levels of N can reduce plant photosynthetic capacity and limit plant growth (Saloner and Bernstein, 2020). For flowering drug-type cannabis in soilless culture, supply of 30 and 80 mg L–1 N restricted whole plant and inflorescence growth, but plants performed optimally with supply of 160–320 mg L–1 N (Saloner and Bernstein, 2021). The optimal N supply (194 mg L–1) found in our study is within their range, despite the two studies using two different growing methods and plants with different genetic backgrounds. For drug-type cannabis during the flowering stage in an organic-based soilless production system, the optimal N supply was slightly higher (212–261 mg L–1; Caplan et al., 2017a) than the optimal level found in the present study.