I just got an ro filter

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E9noxis

E9noxis

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For my next grow I will be using an R/O filter. I hear everyone say they use it and the water where I'm at is not great. So I got one. I haven't installed it yet, but that's OK. It's for the next grow.

I also picked up the TPS nutrient line. I'll be following their instructions.

In the instructions, it says that R/O water needs a ph buffer. I dont really know what that means. A brief explanation would be nice.

What is it meant to do? Is using calmag like normal enough of a buffer? Should I use ph up and down to create a buffer before adding nutrients like it the instructions say to do?

If anyone is familiar (yeah, you) please say what you know about the R/O water or TPS nutrients.

Thanks
 
Deadstill

Deadstill

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Pure filtered RO water will be a neutral ph of 7. Depending on if you're doing hydro or soil, you're going to want pH anywhere in a range from 5.8-6.3 for hydro and 6.3-6.8 for soil (usually).

That being said, a ph buffer is something that maintains a constant ph value across applications. For instance if you add a teaspoon of salt to a gallon of pure RO water it's going to show very high (alkaline) ph. I know absolutely nothing about the nutrient line you mentioned, but I know most of the decent nutrient lines have ph buffers built-in. Emerald Harvest nutrients and Advanced Nutrients "ph perfect" lines are good examples of this.

I could spend hours explaining all of this but I'll just say this - always pH your water/nutrients AFTER you mixed them, not before. And don't stick a ph tester into pure RO water, you'll ruin it (at least the BlueLab ones I use, for sure, don't do this). Pure RO 0ppm water will always test at 7.0 ph. So generally what you're going to do is add your nutrients until you reach the PPM you're looking for, then test ph and adjust accordingly.

But yeah, basically a ph buffer is something that helps maintain a constant ph. As plants uptake nutrients as they need them, your pH levels will fluctuate as well. There's an entire science to this and there are charts on it in this thread - https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/t...r-making-nutrient-deficiency-diagnoses.60485/
 
E9noxis

E9noxis

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The directions in the TPS kit says a few of the nutrients are buffers. It also said to add the ph up and then the ph down and mix thoroughly before adding nutrients if I'm using RO.
 
Deadstill

Deadstill

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The directions in the TPS kit says a few of the nutrients are buffers. It also said to add the ph up and then the ph down and mix thoroughly before adding nutrients if I'm using RO.
It's generally common practice to take the instructions included with nutrients with a grain of salt. I remember the first time I mixed Emerald Harvest nutrients as per instructions. Almost killed my plants. Unfortunately most nutrient companies want you to use more nutrients than required so they can sell you more. Not always the case but most of the time.

I cannot think of any reason to add ph up, then ph down, then nutrients, and then more ph up or down. Sounds like a sales technique, to me. I've always followed the general consensus of ph after nutrients are mixed, never had any problems. Maybe it's just this particular nutrient line, I could be wrong, as I said I know nothing about TPS.
 
E9noxis

E9noxis

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I clipped this of their site. It's not the same as I read in the instruction book, but it has the same material.

Screenshot 20220415 084137 Chrome

I think it's to create a buffer first? I don't know. They don't even say how much to add and ph doesn't come with the kit so I don't think they're trying to make me buy more.

I know to use less than they say as far as the nutrients go.

Why do they have a specific order for silica and base a-b? Nothing else matters for order?
 
Buzzzz

Buzzzz

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The directions in the TPS kit says a few of the nutrients are buffers. It also said to add the ph up and then the ph down and mix thoroughly before adding nutrients if I'm using RO.
I always thought RO water dropped in ph after sitting as it absorbs co2 from the air because it's pure water and the minerals are gone , it did for me when i tried it,the PH settled to about 5.5 after a few hours exposure.
 
E9noxis

E9noxis

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So put it in a container and wait for a bit before adding anything?
 
E9noxis

E9noxis

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We have well water that is treated with a salt based softener. I read its bad to use that for plants. So I've been buying Poland Springs water for the entire grow. Now I have my second grow started before my first is done and the plants for the greenhouse are germinating and soon enough I'll start another in the big tent.

Long story short, this is cheaper in the long run. And everyone is doing it, I just wanted to be popular
 
phxazcraig

phxazcraig

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For my next grow I will be using an R/O filter. I hear everyone say they use it and the water where I'm at is not great. So I got one. I haven't installed it yet, but that's OK. It's for the next grow.

I also picked up the TPS nutrient line. I'll be following their instructions.

In the instructions, it says that R/O water needs a ph buffer. I dont really know what that means. A brief explanation would be nice.

What is it meant to do? Is using calmag like normal enough of a buffer? Should I use ph up and down to create a buffer before adding nutrients like it the instructions say to do?

If anyone is familiar (yeah, you) please say what you know about the R/O water or TPS nutrients.

Thanks
PURE water (distilled) will have a neutral pH of 7.0. However, RO water isn't pure, it may/will have a few molecules of something in it that will affect pH. My tap water (Phoenix) is horrendously hard, with a pH of about 8. That alkalinity comes from calcium carbonate, mostly, and it is intentional in a city water supply. You need to buffer the water with something alkaline to prevent the water from getting acidic and dissolving pipes.

If you have just a few molecules in pure water, it will swing the pH, but it has no real buffering capacity, so anything you add could swing pH wildly in one direction or another. Since nutrients usually affect pH, you need to mix everything together and then measure/adjust pH at the end. Makes no sense to dump pH Down into your tank to neutralize the water's alkalinity, then add a bunch of nutes that do the same thing, then have to add pH Up at the end to fix it.

There is an recommended order of mixing things so that the nutes don't act on each other and lock things out. One rule: Always add your nutes to the water. Do not mix nutes together and then add that to water.

If using Silica, always start with that and leave it for 10-60 minutes to 'bond with the water' before adding anything else next. (The time values vary with the source, but you do need to wait. I wait 1 hour just to be sure). Next, if using cal/mag, add it now. Third, add your nutes, then your additives. pH at this point. All your buffering nutes will be in and interacted to give you a starting pH to adjust. If using H2O2, add it last.

pH pens, the cheap ones, are notoriously inaccurate, but at least one could get pH to be consistent, which is important. Also, pH is less important if growing in soil as the soil will buffer the pH to some value anyway.
 
Buzzzz

Buzzzz

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We have well water that is treated with a salt based softener. I read its bad to use that for plants. So I've been buying Poland Springs water for the entire grow. Now I have my second grow started before my first is done and the plants for the greenhouse are germinating and soon enough I'll start another in the big tent.

Long story short, this is cheaper in the long run. And everyone is doing it, I just wanted to be popular
Softeners removes calcium and magnesium and replaces with sodium ,so don't use softened water for grows
 
Maxwax

Maxwax

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Softeners removes calcium and magnesium and replaces with sodium ,so don't use softened water for grows
and thats something you never see mentioned in 99% of the educational materials that are out there. It should be because Im sure a ton of people are trying to grow in softened water.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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I always thought RO water dropped in ph after sitting as it absorbs co2 from the air because it's pure water and the minerals are gone , it did for me when i tried it,the PH settled to about 5.5 after a few hours exposure.
PH of RO water is nothing. It's not zero- its just nothing. One spec of anything - acid of base will make extreme moves. So If I add my nutes to ro, the ph will go to 5, because it has no alkalinity. I add potasium silicate first, that the base and the ph goes to 9. Then I mix the nutes in and the ph is 6.2-6.4. It's now buffered. One spec of anything won't move it a lot.
 
P

ProfessorIndica

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Pure filtered RO water will be a neutral ph of 7. Depending on if you're doing hydro or soil, you're going to want pH anywhere in a range from 5.8-6.3 for hydro and 6.3-6.8 for soil (usually).

That being said, a ph buffer is something that maintains a constant ph value across applications. For instance if you add a teaspoon of salt to a gallon of pure RO water it's going to show very high (alkaline) ph. I know absolutely nothing about the nutrient line you mentioned, but I know most of the decent nutrient lines have ph buffers built-in. Emerald Harvest nutrients and Advanced Nutrients "ph perfect" lines are good examples of this.

I could spend hours explaining all of this but I'll just say this - always pH your water/nutrients AFTER you mixed them, not before. And don't stick a ph tester into pure RO water, you'll ruin it (at least the BlueLab ones I use, for sure, don't do this). Pure RO 0ppm water will always test at 7.0 ph. So generally what you're going to do is add your nutrients until you reach the PPM you're looking for, then test ph and adjust accordingly.

But yeah, basically a ph buffer is something that helps maintain a constant ph. As plants uptake nutrients as they need them, your pH levels will fluctuate as well. There's an entire science to this and there are charts on it in this thread - https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/t...r-making-nutrient-deficiency-diagnoses.60485/
Pure R.O. water is not pH neutral. Often times its around 6 to 6.5, which is basically considered neutral for our purposes.

The Great thing about ro water in organics, is that RO water has no buffering capabilities, aa its devoid of any EC, ppm, tds in any significant amount or any at all. So it won't effect pH of soil or anything you water with it. Itll instantly go to the soils ph as the soil will kinda buffer it for lack of a better word.

But in hydro what they mean by buffering it is giving it some calmag first before adding base nutes.

You add 150-200ppm calmag (0.3-0.4ec) then base nutes or just that if doing hand watering and not a feed, its said that that you should always have 150ppm or so in your ro if feeding it to hydroponic plants
PH of RO water is nothing. It's not zero- its just nothing. One spec of anything - acid of base will make extreme moves. So If I add my nutes to ro, the ph will go to 5, because it has no alkalinity. I add potasium silicate first, that the base and the ph goes to 9. Then I mix the nutes in and the ph is 6.2-6.4. It's now buffered. One spec of anything won't move it a lot.
Yes, this ^^ i posted without reading all posts in theead, i apologize 🤜🤛
 
LoveGrowingIt

LoveGrowingIt

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The potential or power of Hydrogen (pH) is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions in a water solution. It is a scale that ranges from 0 to 14. Values between 0 and 7 are acidic. Values between 7 and 14 are basic (also known as alkaline). The midpoint of the scale, 7, is neutral. A neutral pH means the concentration of hydrogen and hydroxyl ions is equal.
 
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