i think this may be a zinc def? any ideas

[Seamaiden]

Mg deficiency can be fixed up right quick with a foliar. Use 1/4tsp Epsom salt per gallon of clean water. Add either a horticultural oil (spreader/sticker) or a few drops of liquid dish soap (breaks surface tension, allows movement into leaf tissues more easily). You should see a difference in the new growth pretty quickly.

 

[doBpop]

OK I pulled a hermie out night before last and another one last night and no less than FOUR tonight, one with busted balls!!! WTF???

From my condensed, short experience (been MANY years since grown anything) with hermies now it seems most of the balls want to pop out on only ONE side making it hard to spot them. Is this true or just my imagination?

I've read that spraying with water kills pollen on contact. Is this true? Should I spray them or is it too late to salvage or what? Should we trash the grow or continue on?

Here's some picks (finally got cam) of the current stuff. The closeups didn't turn out too great.

Thanks again for all the help.​

 

[Seamaiden]

I see very, very little wrong with those plants. You got that leaf elsewhere, or you PhotoChopped it to look sick just for attention, didn't you?

I kid, but more seriously, yes, water kills pollen. Pull the bananas off as you find them, spritz with water, no seeds. Hopefully they don't try to fully swing on you and cut into yield too significantly, but it doesn't look to me like they're gonna go that far.

See, I worked REALLY hard the first year I started growing to have as many things go wrong at once as I could. I was actually able to achieve a full hermaphrodite the very first year! Stopped making pistils and bud completely, not even bananas, full on male flowers. I told it it was a naughty thing and thanked it for teaching me something clever.

 

[doBpop]

Thanks again.

Yes but aren't the females far enough along to get fertilized? 21 days on 12/12.

I thought they could after like 2 weeks or so. How old do they have to be before they can?

How can I tell if they are fertilized?

Thanks.
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[Seamaiden]

I am not quite understanding your question. I mean, it seems to me you should know whether or not you've fertilized your own plants. But I'll try to work with it and just say that you "read" the plants to determine what they're in need of. At least, that's what I do.

 

[doBpop]

LOL! at myself! :confused0059:

OK so let's substitute pollinate for fertilize. I guess I was thinking in human terms instead of plant terms LOL! (fertilize the egg)

A plant is ready to pollinate 2 weeks after the clusters of female flowers first appear. If you pollinate too early, it may not work. Wait until the female flowers are well established, but still all while hairs are showing.

So being full of hairs already they are more than likely pollinated and will be full of seeds right?

I can't recall when the flowers first started forming but it's probably right at the 2 week mark. (21 days into 12/12)

Is there anyway to tell if they're pollinated at this stage?

Also, I've heard that herms can form right up until harvest - is that true?

Was the stress from the deficiency enough to cause them to herm or what caused it?

They can't get rootbound in viastone and hydro can they?

What did you mean by "fully swing on you"? :thinking

Thanks again!
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[Seamaiden]

Ohhhhh ....!!! *That* kind of fertilization! Do you have any reason to think there's pollen around to fertilize open females?

I can't answer the rootbound question. Yes, herms can happen up until harvest, and the later you wait the more likely you are to find them (strain dependent to a great degree).

Fully swinging means fully changing from one sex to another, and in regard to hermaphrodism, there is a spectrum of expression (including in animals and vertebrate life). The 'best case scenario' is when you just get a few late flower bananas, and they really do look like tiny bananas. They occur too late to seed or affect bud production, whereas if you start to get the completely expressed male flower, then female bud production stops. You can pick out the late flower bananas and spritz the plant with water to ensure zero fertilization through this hermaphrodite pollen.

Does that help? I'm still giggling at how I misunderstood you, I apologize.

Oh! How to tell if they're fertilized, usually, since it's this early on, what should still be lots and lots of white pistils popping (this is very much strain dependent, I'm hearing of strains that are finishing under 50 days, that's insane) are instead going red, watch for the calyx it's coming out of to fatten, too.

 

[doBpop]

..... You got that leaf elsewhere, or you PhotoChopped it to look sick just for attention, didn't you?

I did not photochop that leaf ..... I drew it with a crayon ..... :rofl
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[doBpop]

Ohhhhh ....!!! *That* kind of fertilization! Do you have any reason to think there's pollen around to fertilize open females?

Well I said before:

OK I pulled a hermie out night before last and another one last night and no less than FOUR tonight, one with busted balls!!! WTF???

The males were all removed as soon as detected and herms (7 so far) have been immediately removed upon detection and the one from last night definitely had busted balls and is AFAIK the only one so far.
FTR we do NOT want the females to pollinate

I can't answer the rootbound question. Yes, herms can happen up until harvest, and the later you wait the more likely you are to find them (strain dependent to a great degree).

You grow in soil right but the other things you are saying apply to EITHER hydroponics or soil right? (others welcome)
The "later I wait" until what?

Fully swinging means fully changing from one sex to another, and in regard to hermaphrodism, there is a spectrum of expression (including in animals and vertebrate life). The 'best case scenario' is when you just get a few late flower bananas, and they really do look like tiny bananas. They occur too late to seed or affect bud production, whereas if you start to get the completely expressed male flower, then female bud production stops. You can pick out the late flower bananas and spritz the plant with water to ensure zero fertilization through this hermaphrodite pollen.

So if they are pollinated (currently) the bud production stops completely or did I misunderstand that.

Does that help? I'm still giggling at how I misunderstood you, I apologize.

I'm still laughing at me LOL!

Oh! How to tell if they're fertilized, usually, since it's this early on, what should still be lots and lots of white pistils popping (this is very much strain dependent, I'm hearing of strains that are finishing under 50 days, that's insane) are instead going red, watch for the calyx it's coming out of to fatten, too.

The strains are mostly bubba kush x deep chunk with 2 strawberry diesel and the rest sannies maddona f1 all started from seeds.

Thanks again for all the help!

The first two images are all bubba kush x deep chunk.
The second two images are all sannies madonna f1.
The last two images are strawberry diesel. (2 plants)
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[Seamaiden]

Wow, you're three weeks in and you're already finding hermaphrodites (forgot about what you said before, I read a lot on this forum, apologies), that's a bummer.

If they are swinging completely from female to male in an expression of hermaphrodism, then bud production will stop completely. If they're simply pollinated, it won't. That said, I thought I posted to spritz the girls with water as long as you're finding hermie bananas and that will kill the pollen. Probably won't get it all, but it makes a difference.

I grow in soil, coco and perlite (trying to learn as much as I can in the shortest amount of time possible). Hermaphrodism does not seem to be associated with growing style or medium as much as genetic propensity to express.

 

[doBpop]

Haven't found any bananas. (yet)

I sprayed them originally the one time after getting out the male herm with busted balls. Haven't sprayed again.

They got the knife after finding the male balls so don't know how far they 'swing' LOL!

Thanks for the help.
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[doBpop]

Ok here are 3 new pics of these same plants (sannies madonna f1) that are still growing OK but have not recovered green growth on the buds and are still yellow.

Once again let me point out that this started with the buds and went DOWN while all the nitrogen, magnesium and iron deficiency symptoms start at the bottom and come up.

The other pics are of a few of the bubba kush x deep chunks on the other table has since developed the same symptoms. They are also showing some other varied ailments as well.

This is the 34th day of 12/12.
The pureblend probloom nutes are at 1100 with approx 120 of that being calmag.
Keeping close watch on PH = 5.4 to 6.0 trying to keep
close to 5.5.

Thanks to all for the help.
​

 

[doBpop]

:confused0059: - Anyone? (previous post)

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[doBpop]

Another bump

Help please???

Post #32 above.

Advice welcomed .

Thanks.
​

 

[Shady]

Whaddup doBpop, I don't usually lurk the infirmary, but I was cruising around and ended up reading this entire thread... In the most recent photos I suspect that you have a couple issues causing the apparent N and Mg deficiencies... :thinking I'm assuming that wtjames and you are working together on the same grow...

First, it appears as though you have moisture heat stress symptoms at the top canopy, specifically the leaves directly under the light are essentially being blasted with lumens while the plant is getting the same strength of nutes as all the plants on the tray... Please confirm that the plants in question are directly under the light and how close the glass is to the top of the colas... Are the plants on the perimeter and furthest from the light showing less deficiencies? Also are you using any beneficial microbes and bacteria such as Great White to help process the organics in Pure Blend Pro?

The second issue I see is Localized Vapor Pressure Deficit where the leaves closest to the fans or what appears to be an AC on the lower canopy are exhibiting slight deficiencies. What is your RH and ambient temps? Also do you have a gentle fan blowing or are the leaves whipping around? :wondering

Finally I don't recall it being mentioned, but it appears that you may be running a recirculating ebb 'n flow system and using small plastic pots. If this is the case, I can almost guarantee that your plants are already rootbound... :itwasntme

 

[doBpop]

1st grow
ebb and flow - 2-4'x4' trays - 2-60gal res - 6"x6" square containers filled with hydroton
2-1000w hortilux ess HPS one over each table
6.5' x 11.5' x 8' - 75 sq feet - 600 cubic feet
hi/lo shows 81/55% and 68/41% (temp/RH) since last reset on the 22nd
Dehumidifier canfan 50
The strains are mostly bubba kush x deep chunk with 2 strawberry diesel and the rest sannies maddona f1 all started from seeds.
(9/6/2010) 48th day into 12/12 6p-6a - 50 girls around 4' tall

Hi Shady!

Yes we finally figured out they were too close to the lights so raised them up. (was about 10")

No beneficial microbes or bacteria.

That's the dehumidifier sitting in the floor.
One wall fan and recirculating canfan keeps the air stirred up.

I thought rootbound didn't apply since they continue to grow out the bottom and in the trays? Or does it?

Thanks for the help!
​

 

[Shady]

Glad to hear I could help... :thinking Root bound conditions apply unless you had some sort of coco mat under the pots, even then the small holes under the plastic 6"x6" pots only let a few roots through... You should use some sort of mycorrhizae and beneficial bacteria like that in Great White to help the breakdown and uptake of organic nutrients in hydro.

Here's a good link for you on controlling stretch caused by your extreme temp difference between the day and night photoperiods:

​

And another link that I've posted several times in my grow journals on VPD:

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354770#Post1354770​

Hope this helps... :cool

 

[doBpop]

Thanks again Shady!

So how do we avoid the rootbound condition with 6" plastic and hydroton and/or what should we do differently?

The hi/lo numbers are slightly deceptive. We try to keep the room between 68-75F and the 'highs' are only brief spikes and not a 'normal' condition.

Most of the 'stretch' came on early in seedlings and early veg with lights too high so they were pretty much stretched when we started 12/12.

So after reading the VPD info - I'm a little fuzzy on what or how to do anything with it other than the 75/50% (temp/RH) target.

Planning on starting flush with no nutes Friday night.

Thanks again for your help!

​

 

[Shady]

Smart Pots FTW!!! Small spikes in the extreme temps and RH shouldn't be a problem... As for the VPD, just keep in mind that sometimes this can mimic nutrient deficiencies when you may actually be on point with your nute mix... Controlling ambient temps, RH, and wind speed is very important... :cool

 

[doBpop]

Smart Pots FTW!!! .....

Thanks again Shady!

What were you going to say about the rootbound/small pots, etc situation please?

Thanks!


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