I Want To Copy Calmag+

[nightmarecreature]

Does the Mix need to be buffered in concentrated form?

 

[MGRox]

@nightmarecreature Ye I'm not too fond of the GH version either. They are using Calcium Bicarbonate though. I suppose also, they are most likely using HCL too since the MSDS shows a pH of 4.5 for it. If they do use HCL, then they "could" also be adding a bit of carbonate I guess. From a buffering perspective, bicarb will work longer than carb; while a good thing in aquariums, probably could have issues as you mention in soil.

--For PPM's, I checked my scribble notes for all the different nutes.....I have Botancaire cal-mag+ showing 102 ppm per ml per gallon (0.204 EC)
--I did a quick pH check of the bottle I have (though it is about a year old now) and showed a pH of about 5.0.

So, if anyone makes their own; this could be a comparative target to the Mfg version.

As far as buffering goes, I can't say for sure without mixing it myself; but it could very likely need buffered Down a bit. Mag Nitrate is 7.0 ph and the Calcium nitrate lists online between 6-7. The iron EDTA needs to have a pH below 6.0 to stay soluble too. If it does need to be buffered down with just Mg and Ca nitrate; then that would be where (and why) the sulfates (and possibly HCL) would be required.

xD with the hydrobuddy. Have you tried the premixppm? It's much faster / easier to input new GA's and develop profiles; if you do them often at least. They both will show the same profiles (within 0.5 ppm) if given the same inputs, so both are equally accurate.

For the masses, if you use the mix and GA's that I listed as the first profile (only using listed ingredients); then the final ppms / ml and density should be dead exact to Mfg.

The total active elements for quantrills is a bit less than Mfg (I'm assuming it was rounded down for ease??), so the ppm / ml and density will be a bit lower than Mfg.

Last, xD at the magical. 0.05% more Ca (means more NO3 too), 0.05 more Mg and 0.01 more Fe and you got your own product. Gotta love the system for patents / products.

EDIT: make sure you compare GA's between these 2. We both used some different items and that will vary (i.e. largest is with EDTA). So you wouldn't want to mix mass amounts with differing GA's.

Double edit: thinking about this further. I may be on the boat with @jimmy the hat at this point. I mix my own nutes also and the cal-mag just collects dust. It isn't something really used / needed much if you mix from scratch.

 

[Quantrill]

My calculations are simply based off the guaranteed minimum analysis. I took the labeled 3.2% calcium and input 32000ppm as my target for calcium in hydrobuddy.

The real cal-mag plus would be an unknown bit more concentrated than this, so they do not fall below minimum from mere manufacturing process variations.

Looking at the Magical, when you include calcium chloride in the mix you can get the nitrogen down to 2%. But you get about 4.3% chloride in place of it.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Seems like a lot of Calcium chloride.

 

[MGRox]

My calculations are simply based off the guaranteed minimum analysis. I took the labeled 3.2% calcium and input 32000ppm as my target for calcium in hydrobuddy.
The real cal-mag plus would be an unknown bit more concentrated than this,....... <snip>

I'm so used to tweaking nute amounts and then getting to ppms I want vs defining the ppms first; though I believe that's why many like the hydrobuddy, as you don't have to fiddle with proportions of compounds.

You cannot use the GA percent with any liquid without accounting for density. If we were to assume zero variation in manufacturing then, this "unkown bit more" is quantifiable and in many cases required for decent accuracy. The actual ppms in the solution would only be 3.2% IF the total density of the solution was that of pure water (1.0000 gm / ml). The density over this, is what determines how much higher it will be (again assuming 0 variability in mfg.).

I pointed out originally, the few densities that can be arrived at for the Calmag+. With this product it is not huge, so that's why (for instance) the Ca is only 669 ppm higher than GA would predict; in the stock solution.
If we were to consider something more dense then the error margin can be pretty drastic. For instance with Flora Nova Bloom and considering the stock solution; Ca is 40,000 or 4% (as shown on the label). However, if we account for density; then the actual Ca in the stock solution is 59,298 or 5.9%.

***This reminds me of a good point. If anyone makes their own stock solution of this Cal-Mag; make sure that the TOTAL volume of your solution is 1 gallon AFTER the salts are mixed in. i.e. leave the solution a bit below 1 gallon until you mix in the salts; then adjust to 1 gallon. Otherwise the ppms in the calcs will not match your stock solution.

@nightmarecreature Heh, ye that is a fair bit of Cl for sure. Though I guess in agriculture and soils, mostly, anything up to 40 ppm isn't considered terrible (though 40 on the high side). I have been surprised at how many university studies do utilize Calcium Chloride for the sole calcium source in various papers I've read. This is not, of course, to make ANY relation to things here with MJ at all; just an observation.

In general, the ability to tolerate Chlorine with plants is related to their salt tolerance level. A high salt tolerant plant can be in higher Cl concentrations without issue; this is primarily due to the ability for these plants to keep Cl held in the roots and not allowing it to move into leaf tissues and cause damage. A low salt tolerant plant, in general, does not have a good ability to regulate Cl to roots and thus it takes much less Cl to be toxic. Toxicity levels for Cl in leaf tissues do not vary "hugely" with plants, whether salt tolerant or not.

 

[sixstring]

I plan on switching over to making my own base and boosters but I am too timid to make the switch just yet. I typically keep the mentality, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and can't afford any mistakes in my bigger rooms, 60k total. I typically keep all my tests and trials in my smaller test room.

But I figure making my own Cal-Mag is a start and should be a simple one at that.

Cheers

Bro with all that work do you really want to add more by making your own nutes lol.you made mention of j peters and im not sure what your using for base but it cant be that great if your adding that much calmag to it.i been having awesome luck with jacks classics/professional and no cal is needed in peat/coco mix.might need to add a calçium additive for pure coco but they have calnit for that as well.and it dont get no cheaper or easier to use imo.im trying to burn through all these gallons of ionic and a/n and switch to all jacks,but its hard to use them up cause i find myself reaching for the jacks every day lol.just something to think about.some of those formulas will be tough to make stable,then you find yourself mixing lots of small batches daily in that op,not me bro :) but we all know you bust ass,i peeped your rooms again today,shits on point as always.peace

 

[Billyboat]

Bro with all that work do you really want to add more by making your own nutes lol.you made mention of j peters and im not sure what your using for base but it cant be that great if your adding that much calmag to it.i been having awesome luck with jacks classics/professional and no cal is needed in peat/coco mix.might need to add a calçium additive for pure coco but they have calnit for that as well.and it dont get no cheaper or easier to use imo.im trying to burn through all these gallons of ionic and a/n and switch to all jacks,but its hard to use them up cause i find myself reaching for the jacks every day lol.just something to think about.some of those formulas will be tough to make stable,then you find yourself mixing lots of small batches daily in that op,not me bro :) but we all know you bust ass,i peeped your rooms again today,shits on point as always.peace

I've always used Pure Blend Pro as a base and always added back about 5 ml per gallon of CalMag. But I'm going though 1000+ gallons of water a week and that is only going to increase as I keep adding rooms and plants. I've never really used any other nute line, I tried heavy 16 for a run on a small 1 light tent and liked Pure Blend better.

Now that I see that trying to make an exact copy of CalMag+ may not be the best approach, I'm going to start looking more into Jack's, Cal Nitrate, Epson Salts and still adding my aptus additives and totally not using PBP products at all. The only thing that scares me about jacks are the ratios, but I guess more research is on my agenda.

 

[sixstring]

Yeah man like I said im not sure what your media is but for my promix/coco mix i use the jacks pro 20.20.20 for veg and 10.30.20 for flower no additives across a wide range of strains with good results.im using a friends recs of 1tsp per gal feed every watering veg n bloom and 10 to 14 day flush just water with some molasses first 2 times during that flush.a few of my patients had asked if i went organic or something lol.yields just as good as all the spoon feeding i did for years.sometimes i might get a plant that needs a cal bump,og's can do this but i just add a few mls of calmag plus or even notg demeters and those picky bitchs will catch back up to the group.im tellin ya bro on a big show like yours the jacks pro will save you a fortune and prolly know off some water times to boot.1 tsp ler gal equates to about 600ppm grow and 700 bloom with r/o and you can still use any boosters if you so desire,but i dont see any big benefits in my setup and i have played around trying pk boost 1 x a week.all i see doing that is a lil tip burn haha.

 

[sixstring]

You could buy a 25# bag of each and just try a section of veg and your smallest flower room,see how easy it is.worst case you would be out 100bucks or less.i been using the same bag of bloom for about a year in my 10k bloom room although im still trying to use up these other bottles of shit so prolly more like 6 or 7k bloom is being jacked

 

[nightmarecreature]

I've always used Pure Blend Pro as a base and always added back about 5 ml per gallon of CalMag. But I'm going though 1000+ gallons of water a week and that is only going to increase as I keep adding rooms and plants. I've never really used any other nute line, I tried heavy 16 for a run on a small 1 light tent and liked Pure Blend better.

Now that I see that trying to make an exact copy of CalMag+ may not be the best approach, I'm going to start looking more into Jack's, Cal Nitrate, Epson Salts and still adding my aptus additives and totally not using PBP products at all. The only thing that scares me about jacks are the ratios, but I guess more research is on my agenda.

Intersting. I might give Pure Blend pro a shot.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Hydro buddy wont work on my computer, it keeps crashing. I wanted to make my own Sugar Daddy. Does anyone know how many grams of Epsom salts and Cane Sugar I need per gallon?

Technaflora's Sugar Daddy:
Mg: 1.6%
S: 1.75%
Derived from: Magnesium Sulfate
non-plant food ingredients: 2% Cane Sugar

 

[nightmarecreature]

I think I figured it out using 1000ml or 1 liter.
4.44 grams of Epsom salt
20ml of Cane Sugar or molasses.

I'll test out the ppm and see if it matches.

 

[chillywilly]

Greetings

I've been using food grade stuff for a while like Sonnes #2 called Calphonite which is a montmorillinite( volcanic ash). It is a refined bentonite separation of calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorus and sodium. It is is like thick syrupy milk. I got kind of tired of plant nutes and no research, so I check food grade components like veganic style. Feed the plant, feed the human.
Peace

 

[Mr.X]

GH Cali magic works great for me, i dont even supercharge the coco @ the begining, tried botanicare N it didn't quite really do it 4 me, had 2 up 2 10ml per g 2c results. Really lookin forward to runnin some AN sensicalmag, its got micros N kelp + ca mg. Ill keep evry1 posted.