root aphids for SURE! no doubt. check it - here are some that migrated to my leaves during flush. They're attracted to plants with certain sugar and amino acid concentrations that they can thrive on. Normally most sugars and basic proteins are stored in the roots until the plant has use for them - that's why root aphids are common. However they can also begin colonizing the canopy, especially old water leaves, during flush or when nutrients get light and plants use their root stores. They can also be brought in by ants - this is more common than people think. The following photos are at the very end of flush - what was left of the colonies in the rootmass moved up the plant and settled in the middle of the canopy where the last of the plant's sugars (from all that molasses during flush) were being stored. I messed up and had a fan off over that section for that same time period so they got a decent enough hold to outbreak a cubic foot or so.

a new colony, they dig they're proboscis into the plant and absorb sap

you can see they pretty much turn the same color as whatever they're eating. The ones in this pic are molting into winged forms to go fly and shit babies elsewhere.
whenever I look at this pic I expect master chief to come in and blast this fucker. That big black one will give birth to male and female aphids - the result of which are asexual offspring until the colony senses danger and reproduces fliers to migrate. Notice the little yellow guys with red butts - those are male/female offspring of that black guy, which came out of a "winter egg", which gets laid by fliers. The red butt ones give birth to asexual offspring. when you see lots of those guys, your fucked unless you can hit them within 24 -48 hours. I use full strength biowar tea once a week and never see them anymore, this was what happened when i skipped a week.
and this guy is what starts it all. just takes one of them, or one of their eggs on your clothes, to start the party.







I've heard hydrogen peroxide through aeroponic systems works wonders for cleaning them out - the most important thing is sterility though. keep your area clean and ventilated and make sure you address them ASAP

Those look a little different from the pix in the first post. Six legs, yeah, kind of the same general body type, but they're colored very differently, seem a little different to me. <shrug>

El Cerebro said:

what are they then? do you know what RAs look like? and why would they be hard to observe in this situation? do you find them only congregating in small numbers on your planet?

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No, I don't. But on my planet we also have other bugs and life, some of it as yet unidentified. I do happen to know what RAs look like, at least, the ones I experienced.

To reiterate, since I don't seem to be getting my point across to all readers, I'm not saying I know what they are, I'm saying I'm surprised, given the overall scenario *if* these are RAs. The RAs I experienced were difficult to observe and required a good bit of magnification (10x+). It was also "necessary" for the plants to begin going downhill for there to be appreciable, observable (for me) numbers in the roots, but I'll qualify to say that the first infestation was in perlite, second was in coco coir, so perhaps that affects appearances. One thing I *am* certain of is that once there were appreciable numbers, my plants' roots showed nothing like what's being depicted in the first post--they were shriveled up, brown, useless looking things, all of the roots. These bugs don't appear to be quite so magnified (< 10x+?). Given all of that, I'm less inclined to simply slap the RA label on them than others, including yourself. If I knew for certain what they *are*, I would say so, unequivocally.

So, while I do see there's a consensus, I am curious as to the whole picture. I'm not going after anyone, nor making denigrating remarks, including towards you, so I'd appreciate it if you don't treat me in that manner and inferring that I'm crazy or something.

Sea, I think you're absolutely batshit :eek:

and apparently missing my dry-witted humor :rolleyes:

sorry but the first photo, even out of focus, is a dead-ringer to me. so much that i was surprised anyone would debate it. as for being right/wrong, doesn't matter to me in the least, and I can turn on a dime if shown compelling evidence.

El Cerebro said:

sorry but the first photo, even out of focus, is a dead-ringer to me. so much that i was surprised anyone would debate it. as for being right/wrong, doesn't matter to me in the least, and I can turn on a dime if shown compelling evidence.

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Seamaiden said:

Those look a little different from the pix in the first post. Six legs, yeah, kind of the same general body type, but they're colored very differently, seem a little different to me. <shrug>

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Check out that first picture, because that's what did it for me too. Reference it to the third picture I took where you can see the little yellow guys with red butts. You can see it's the same bug the ones in the OP are just way more mature. It's the stage of the bug that is sexually reproductive - both male and female bugs. they give birth to the asexual babies, which are the ones that are impossible to get rid of. at the stage pictured they are just starting to establish a colony - all those bugs hatched from one egg-laying inside the cloner. they will soon reproduce again and then the population explodes since the new generation is born pregnant and asexually reproductive.

As with many insects, aphids and phylloxeroidea's pigment can change based on their diet. notice how in none of my pictures they are the same color - yellow aphids on yellow leaves, green on green leaves, when they're in the roots theyre brown, yellow, and orange, on purple plants they're either green or brownish red. the term "root aphid" applies to probably a dozen different species between the two families aphidoidea and phylloxeroidea, with corn aphids being the more common pest for marijuana.

I've had lots of wonderful, rewarding experience with these bugs. (ha) Earlier on in my life, for a science fair project in high school, I was testing newly discovered ladybug species on their viability for biological control against three major species of aphids. Then in college I did write ups on tons of invasive or seriously detrimental pests and pathogens, from chestnut blight, oak wilt, potato blight, the 1915 locust plaque, and yes the phylloxera plague in france. I was fascinated by nature's battles with herself...cool shit.

now I just fight (winning) battles against them when they try to take over my root mass around week 3 of flower. I've seen them get sooooo nasty, bubbling boiling over pots of nothing but aphids...happy to say I never let it get to that extreme, and as long as you're an attentive grower root aphids are actually a really fascinating insect to watch try to establish it'self. I grow in grow bags, so next time I see them in there I'll rip one in half and get some root porn/ aphid fetish porn and try to get definitive pictures of them in every phase of the life cycle :)

then i'm gonna hit them with caps' tea and turn them all to white fuzz.

El Cerebro said:

Sea, I think you're absolutely batshit :eek:

and apparently missing my dry-witted humor :rolleyes:

sorry but the first photo, even out of focus, is a dead-ringer to me. so much that i was surprised anyone would debate it. as for being right/wrong, doesn't matter to me in the least, and I can turn on a dime if shown compelling evidence.

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I must have! Sorry, I'll remove that hair from across my planet, now.

Space cab, i have a visually identical bug(first pic) in my roots as well.....I also found bugs visually identical to We Solidarity pics. Im attributing this to the maturity of the bug, and after spending some time comparing to pest guides, pics, ect Im pretty sure its aphids. I captured everything I could that moved, I found ants(which will actually assist the aphids in harvesting its eggs and could possibly be the original source of contamination) and some fungus gnats flying around and larvae in the soil. All seemed fairly easy to identify under a scope. Root aphids can mature into fliers so dont be fooled. The last 2.5 weeks iv noticed a much slower growth rate and have been pulling my hair out chasing phantom deficiencies. In my flower, I lost an entire strain(7 plants) hermed out on me going into week 5,(2 days ago) and the roots system was severly damaged and underdeveloped. and i have 6 of another strain in veg that I may have to trash as well. On a side note all the plants I trashed and a few of the other infected ones were not given caps benificials early on.Which i believe is keeping the rest of the room under control. Or it just hasnt showed yet. Im probably going to try liquid pyrethrum and botanigard in alternating treatments, still have alot of reading to do on the subject,

jimmy the hat said:

Space cab, i have a visually identical bug(first pic) in my roots as well.....I also found bugs visually identical to We Solidarity pics. Im attributing this to the maturity of the bug, and after spending some time comparing to pest guides, pics, ect Im pretty sure its aphids. I captured everything I could that moved, I found ants(which will actually assist the aphids in harvesting its eggs and could possibly be the original source of contamination) and some fungus gnats flying around and larvae in the soil. All seemed fairly easy to identify under a scope. Root aphids can mature into fliers so dont be fooled. The last 2.5 weeks iv noticed a much slower growth rate and have been pulling my hair out chasing phantom deficiencies. In my flower, I lost an entire strain(7 plants) hermed out on me going into week 5,(2 days ago) and the roots system was severly damaged and underdeveloped. and i have 6 of another strain in veg that I may have to trash as well. On a side note all the plants I trashed and a few of the other infected ones were not given caps benificials early on.Which i believe is keeping the rest of the room under control. Or it just hasnt showed yet. Im probably going to try liquid pyrethrum and botanigard in alternating treatments, still have alot of reading to do on the subject,

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Jimmy - ants will definitely bring in aphids. especially when it's getting cold out. There are actually species of ants that will dig burrows under roots in the wild and keep "aphid farms" on parts of the root. If you see them in the grow it is actually highly likely that they are bringing in eggs. I put out ant traps and sweep daily in the room I have the most 'phid problems in, they havent been half as bad since.

google search aphids in ez cloner, Take it easy guys .........the aphids come from contaminate grow cubes etc.

^ and gal :)

We Solidarity said:

Jimmy - ants will definitely bring in aphids. especially when it's getting cold out. There are actually species of ants that will dig burrows under roots in the wild and keep "aphid farms" on parts of the root. If you see them in the grow it is actually highly likely that they are bringing in eggs. I put out ant traps and sweep daily in the room I have the most 'phid problems in, they havent been half as bad since.

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Yeah thats what i was reading, ants, gnats and aphids are currently going nuclear in my apparently not so sealed room. I think there coming in a crack in the concrete. Bought to wage war.....cant find the aphid fetish porn though

Thanks guys, Took care of them. Leaving pump on 24/7 for a handful of hours seemed to drown them out. Also steralized it with some h2o2. Sprayed with bayer also and added some to cloner. Then once beneficials were introduced back, gave them ACT foliar with some caps foliar benes and added some extra neem to res. all of this seemed to kill everything and plants never showed any negative effects. Thanks again everyone