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I'm stuck and dont know what to do

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I'm stuck and dont know what to do

Gaudy 141 Replies 12,602 Views
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I've certainly not shot down everyones answer, and yes, I'm sure my instruments aren't off, I went through several weeks of testing and validating and double checking making sure the readings are accurate plus the MFR of the sensor has also made their own testing available to review. BTW looking at leaves and stating what nutrients the plant is missing isnt fool proof, its quiet the opposite, which is why i started taking soil samples and doing tests and then providing those results here. I'm a data driven person, i dont do things solely based on gut feeling. Also many of the suggestions provided I've considered and have performed them. But you cant tell me that you know exactly whats happening with a plants nutrients just based on color when that color is the same reaction for multiple plant nutrients issues, which is why i did a soil sample, chemical reactions cant lie. BTW after doing the flushing as someone suggested and then leading off my soil samples, I've added in SOP and the leaves have stopped turning and the plant appears much healthier.

I understand how my comments come off and they arent intended that way, but again im data driven, I came here to help me narrow down the problem, not all suggestions are accurate which again is why i did soil samples.

Ahhh but here's the thing ... If your numbers were accurate, your plants would be healthy. This isn't rocket science. If indeed you're giving the plant everything they need in an environment they like, they would be thriving.

I think the condition of your plants are a better indicator of what is going on than your data driven instruments that yes indeed, seem to be out of calibration.
 
Do you have prior data to refer to for the optimal conditions?
Also curious what language did you use to code It? I mostly have experience scripting, but I've dabbled with C++.
I prefer Python, I stopped actively scripting in December due to job change unfortunately ✌️
yes, I do indeed have prior data. The MFR of the sensor did their own testing as they should and provided those results and procedures. I then did my own minor testing over several weeks to verify, not as extensive, essentially just created base line readings, took readings from dry soil that i use and then readings from saturated soil, readings while it was in the air, or just in water etc, and then with that data I get a rough idea of what the soil in the plant should be during normal cycles. I wrote all the code in C++. It could probably of been wrote in python much easier but I started the project for a final project in my C++ class, and i'll probably build more on it for my EE senior project. (To remove suspensions that i have no engineering experience prior to this im currently an ME adding another degree on.)
 
Ahhh but here's the thing ... If your numbers were accurate, your plants would be healthy. This isn't rocket science. If indeed you're giving the plant everything they need in an environment they like, they would be thriving.

I think the condition of your plants are a better indicator of what is going on than your data driven instruments that yes indeed, seem to be out of calibration.
well I dont take soil samples every week or every month for nutrients, and my sensor is only for water, I havent designed in the ability to take nutrient readings yet so its very much still manual. Seems like you misunderstand my comments about the sensor and the moisure.
 
I'm confused.

Why after several of us who have quite a bit of experience growing, do you still insist you have a nitrogen deficiency? You are approaching nitrogen toxicity!

Throw the test kit away. It's not accurate. Cut back on N and boost K. Keep your environmental parameters in the happy zone and you should be ok.
I havent gave the plant any N for a more than a month now, so how can N be the problem if im not giving it any? Chemical reactions dont lie, and their unbiased. I stopped giving the plant N at the first signs of flowering, so Y after a month+ would there be problems now unless its caused by a different nutrient?
 
well I dont take soil samples every week or every month for nutrients, and my sensor is only for water, I havent designed in the ability to take nutrient readings yet so its very much still manual. Seems like you misunderstand my comments about the sensor and the moisure.
I havent gave the plant any N for a more than a month now, so how can N be the problem if im not giving it any?

It's possible I misunderstand what you're trying to do ... but I've been growing cannabis for a lot of years and I'm pretty good at keeping my plants healthy from start to finish ...

What I don't think you understand is I'm behind what you're attempting and I want to see you be successful but because you won't go back and check your programing or your calculations to find your error, you insist that everything is working correctly when its not.

Cannabis needs are well defined from environment to nutrition to lighting. There's no moving goalpost here. It's consistently the same across all strains with only a few very minor differences. If you can control your environment and lighting, and feed your plants the proper ratios of nutrients, you should not be having the problems you're having. This is why I keep coming back to something is off in your data ... your math ... your programing ... somewhere ... because if you had everything right you would be nailing this and doing quite well actually.
 
Using a soil test will definitely tell you what's there or not but it says absolutely zero about what your plants are doing with it. Saying you can't accurately diagnose problems based on leaf appearance because many issues have the same "color" is a gross oversimplification and completely missing the point.

There's nuance to the process which goes beyond the data. It's all a giant interconnected web of factors that experienced growers can "read" on a plant. Your scientific approach is great, but it only gives you data. How you interpret that data will come with experience and seeing how your decisions affect the plants.

If you're inexperienced, THCFarmer is a great place to be, as long as you're willing to having an open mind and acknowledge the people who are just trying to help you.

Isn't that why you came here in the first place?


I've certainly not shot down everyones answer, and yes, I'm sure my instruments aren't off, I went through several weeks of testing and validating and double checking making sure the readings are accurate plus the MFR of the sensor has also made their own testing available to review. BTW looking at leaves and stating what nutrients the plant is missing isnt fool proof, its quiet the opposite, which is why i started taking soil samples and doing tests and then providing those results here. I'm a data driven person, i dont do things solely based on gut feeling. Also many of the suggestions provided I've considered and have performed them. But you cant tell me that you know exactly whats happening with a plants nutrients just based on color when that color is the same reaction for multiple plant nutrients issues, which is why i did a soil sample, chemical reactions cant lie. BTW after doing the flushing as someone suggested and then leading off my soil samples, I've added in SOP and the leaves have stopped turning and the plant appears much healthier.

I understand how my comments come off and they arent intended that way, but again im data driven, I came here to help me narrow down the problem, not all suggestions are accurate which again is why i did soil samples.
 
Using a soil test will definitely tell you what's there or not but it says absolutely zero about what your plants are doing with it. Saying you can't accurately diagnose problems based on leaf appearance because many issues have the same "color" is a gross oversimplification and completely missing the point.

There's nuance to the process which goes beyond the data. It's all a giant interconnected web of factors that experienced growers can "read" on a plant. Your scientific approach is great, but it only gives you data. How you interpret that data will come with experience and seeing how your decisions affect the plants.

If you're inexperienced, THCFarmer is a great place to be, as long as you're willing to having an open mind and acknowledge the people who are just trying to help you.

Isn't that why you came here in the first place?

Especially with a thread titled "I'm stuck and dont know what to do."

Real growers with real life growing experience have been telling you from your first post how to get your plants healthy. Follow some of our suggestions. Test your data with a pH pen or send out your soil sample for more sophisticated testing. Even soil pH alone being out of range can cause some of the symptoms your plants are experiencing.
Soil pH range
 
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It's possible I misunderstand what you're trying to do ... but I've been growing cannabis for a lot of years and I'm pretty good at keeping my plants healthy from start to finish ...

What I don't think you understand is I'm behind what you're attempting and I want to see you be successful but because you won't go back and check your programing or your calculations to find your error, you insist that everything is working correctly when its not.

Cannabis needs are well defined from environment to nutrition to lighting. There's no moving goalpost here. It's consistently the same across all strains with only a few very minor differences. If you can control your environment and lighting, and feed your plants the proper ratios of nutrients, you should not be having the problems you're having. This is why I keep coming back to something is off in your data ... your math ... your programing ... somewhere ... because if you had everything right you would be nailing this and doing quite well actually.
I appreciate that, its just that the sensor only does moisture and temperature, thats it, nothing more nothing less, and that data for how moist the soil is can be backed up via testing, or taking a reading and going in and verifying that the reading is accurate. I'll explain how the sensor works and maybe it will help you understand. Currently their are 2 ways that I've researched on how to detect water levels in soil, one is through resistance, this takes 2 probes and passes voltage across those probes. If i put 5volts in but i detect 3 volts, this return is then computed into a resistance, its simply ohms law. the resistance changes depending on how much water is in the soil, less resistance = more water, more resistance = less water. My setup uses capacitance instead, bc using resistances causes the water in the soil to electrolyze creating hydrogen and degrades the sensor over time. Similar concept except its how fast the capcitor charges = the water level. I didnt design the sensor, but even if i did, the only math involved would be figuring out how to calculate those values, and then you test to make sure that when the water is high it reads high etc, which doesnt exactly require math just that i know what the readings should look like under given circumstances.
 
Especially with a thread titled "I'm stuck and dont know what to do."

Real growers with real life growing experience have been telling you from your first post how to get your plants healthy. Follow some of our suggestions. Test your data with a pH pen or send out your soil sample for more sophisticated testing. Even soil pH alone being out of range can cause some of the symptoms your plants are experiencing.View attachment 2446919
well the OP was for all the larfy buds and how i could turn it awound not the color of my leaves, which btw i did all the suggestions there. I then asked about the yellowing of the leaves which was a newer development and then people jumped to the conclusion that it was a nitrogen problem and fixated onto the dark green leaves which is also a sign of high phosphorus btw and wouldnt you know it, the nutrients i was giving it was higher in phosphorus which was then backed up by my soil samples. Sorry that I dont take everyones opinion at face value, I've worked with plenty of ppl that were supposed to be experts in their field and they were severily lacking their abilities. I've had ppl swear up and down about a problem on other forums only to have them all be wrong b/c they refused to look at the facts.

I came here for opinions and guidance not, "this is the problem bc i know based off a single factor, the color of your dark green leaves". What i expected to get was, did you take soil samples, have you considered this, instead i got exact answers and then after i provided sampling results theyl doubled down and didnt seem to consider the new data.
 
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I appreciate that, its just that the sensor only does moisture and temperature, thats it, nothing more nothing less, and that data for how moist the soil is can be backed up via testing, or taking a reading and going in and verifying that the reading is accurate. I'll explain how the sensor works and maybe it will help you understand. Currently their are 2 ways that I've researched on how to detect water levels in soil, one is through resistance, this takes 2 probes and passes voltage across those probes. If i put 5volts in but i detect 3 volts, this return is then computed into a resistance, its simply ohms law. the resistance changes depending on how much water is in the soil, less resistance = more water, more resistance = less water. My setup uses capacitance instead, bc using resistances causes the water in the soil to electrolyze creating hydrogen and degrades the sensor over time. Similar concept except its how fast the capcitor charges = the water level. I didnt design the sensor, but even if i did, the only math involved would be figuring out how to calculate those values, and then you test to make sure that when the water is high it reads high etc, which doesnt exactly require math just that i know what the readings should look like under given circumstances.

I edited my post above to add a picture. Soil pH should be between 6.0-7.0. I prefer mine right at 6.5. If you vary from that a bit on the acidic side, your plants will absorb more nitrogen and less calcium, and magnesium etc. You vary from that more than a bit like soil pH in the 5.0-5.5 range, you begin to absorb iron which in large doses is toxic. It's the chart above I'm hoping you look over so you can see the importance of keeping the soil pH in range so nutrients can be used in their proper ratios.
 
well the OP was for all the larfy buds and not the color of my leaves, I then asked about the yellowing of the leaves and then everyone jumped to the conclusion that it was a nitrogen problem. Sorry that I dont take everyones opinion at face value, I've worked with plenty of ppl that were supposed to be experts in their field and they were severily lacking their abilities.

I wouldn't take "everyone's" opinion at face value. There's enough people here who have been around things long enough to be able to repeat information but are still struggling to apply that information in their own grows.

Then there are people who have been growing for a number of years.

Edit:

The other side of this is sometimes small pieces of data are inadvertently being left out of the description of the problem. Frequently, to diagnose a problem correctly requires all the data ... the complete routine. For example, wet feet causes root issues which in turn create uptake issues. This will cause yellowing where someone with less experience might assume its a nitrogen deficiency when the problem lies within the watering routine. Even the smallest detail can send a person down the wrong path in diagnosing plant issues.
 
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Using a soil test will definitely tell you what's there or not but it says absolutely zero about what your plants are doing with it. Saying you can't accurately diagnose problems based on leaf appearance because many issues have the same "color" is a gross oversimplification and completely missing the point.

There's nuance to the process which goes beyond the data. It's all a giant interconnected web of factors that experienced growers can "read" on a plant. Your scientific approach is great, but it only gives you data. How you interpret that data will come with experience and seeing how your decisions affect the plants.

If you're inexperienced, THCFarmer is a great place to be, as long as you're willing to having an open mind and acknowledge the people who are just trying to help you.

Isn't that why you came here in the first place?
To much of the data pointed to something else, If i stopped giving the plant nitrogen over a month ago and started giving it new nutrients that where higher in phosphorus and then the soil samples, showed high phosphorus and low nitrogen plus the dark leaves also being a sign of high phosphorus not just nitrogen, and the leaves show signs based on other studies of low potassium and the soil samples show low potassium, why would I continue to believe that its a high nitrogen problem? I maybe new to growing cannabis but I'm not new to researching, troubleshooting or data collection.

I'm not trying to be combative, just seems like no one cares about the other data which to me points to something else.
 
To much of the data pointed to something else, If i stopped giving the plant nitrogen over a month ago and started giving it new nutrients that where higher in phosphorus and then the soil samples, showed high phosphorus and low nitrogen plus the dark leaves also being a sign of high phosphorus not just nitrogen, and the leaves show signs based on other studies of low potassium and the soil samples show low potassium, why would I continue to believe that its a high nitrogen problem? I maybe new to growing cannabis but I'm not new to researching, troubleshooting or data collection.

I'm not trying to be combative, just seems like no one cares about the other data which to me points to something else.
It's because we are reading your plants, not your data.

Your plants are the most accurate indicator of what is going on. Their needs are consistent and are accurately displayed if you have all the information in front of you. Likewise, some faulty data can send you in the wrong direction and cause you to scratch your head and chase your tail in the attempt to diagnose issues.
 
I wouldn't take "everyone's" opinion at face value. There's enough people here who have been around things long enough to be able to repeat information but are still struggling to apply that information in their own grows.

Then there are people who have been growing for a number of years.

Edit:

The other side of this is sometimes small pieces of data are inadvertently being left out of the description of the problem. Frequently, to diagnose a problem correctly requires all the data ... the complete routine. For example, wet feet causes root issues which in turn create uptake issues. This will cause yellowing where someone with less experience might assume its a nitrogen deficiency when the problem lies within the watering routine. Even the smallest detail can send a person down the wrong path in diagnosing plant issues.
I appreciate you acknowledging that, I dont have a means to give an exact number value reading but the Ph kit i have does show the Ph between 6-7 this is using those water test strips and taking the water off the run off during flushing. I used another Ph test kit to make sure of the accuracy, I dont have a different soil sampling kit to test validity of the the previous nutrients readings though.
 
I appreciate you acknowledging that, I dont have a means to give an exact number value reading but the Ph kit i have does show the Ph between 6-7 this is using those water test strips and taking the water off the run off during flushing. I used another Ph test kit to make sure of the accuracy, I dont have a different soil sampling kit to test validity of the the previous nutrients readings though.
If you are in the USA, you can take a sample of your soil to your local agriculture office where they can test it with pretty much state of the art equipment. Since what you're doing is more than just "growing a few plants" and you're actually trying to dial in sensors that measure different conditions in real time ... this extra step might prove beneficial in either refuting or backing up your data.

After-all, data is data. Garbage in, garbage out. However, data that is accurate and properly defined can make a lot of difference in what you're attempting to do because you're starting with accurate numbers.
 
It's because we are reading your plants, not your data.

Your plants are the most accurate indicator of what is going on. Their needs are consistent and are accurately displayed if you have all the information in front of you. Likewise, some faulty data can send you in the wrong direction and cause you to scratch your head and chase your tail in the attempt to diagnose issues.
I can understand having faulty data, but I looked at more than just a single set of data. The color of the leaves, the soil sample, the nutrients that it was being fed to it etc, and then look at the things that stay consistent throughout those. Dark leaves could be nitrogen, phosphorus or potassium, from I looked at data and deducted things that were not consistent.

I've attached an image that i used which was posted within THC farmer of the different coloring of leaves and their meanings, using this is when is how I put together the other tests.

1735327061191
 
To much of the data pointed to something else, If i stopped giving the plant nitrogen over a month ago and started giving it new nutrients that where higher in phosphorus and then the soil samples, showed high phosphorus and low nitrogen plus the dark leaves also being a sign of high phosphorus not just nitrogen, and the leaves show signs based on other studies of low potassium and the soil samples show low potassium, why would I continue to believe that its a high nitrogen problem? I maybe new to growing cannabis but I'm not new to researching, troubleshooting or data collection.

I'm not trying to be combative, just seems like no one cares about the other data which to me points to something else.
Did you test for Mg? Because that's what I mentioned. I also asked you follow up questions that got ignored. It must be because you know better.

This is not a a leaf with a potassium issue. This is classic Mg. There are subtle differences which you mistook for something else and used your data to back up your own assumptions. That illustration you posted is garbage and just causes more confusion. Look at real pics from real plants.

For future reference K is gonna start at the edges and work it's way inwards, not start in the middle of the veins.

Screenshot 20250603 112221
 
I can understand having faulty data, but I looked at more than just a single set of data. The color of the leaves, the soil sample, the nutrients that it was being fed to it etc, and then look at the things that stay consistent throughout those. Dark leaves could be nitrogen, phosphorus or potassium, from I looked at data and deducted things that were not consistent.

I've attached an image that i used which was posted within THC farmer of the different coloring of leaves and their meanings, using this is when is how I put together the other tests.

View attachment 2446929
I keep a copy of the same jpeg on my computer. While it is excellent information, the photograph doesn't go far enough in describing subtle differences. This is where you, the grower, can help figure out what is going on by knowing the basics of your soil mix. What this means is if your soil is starting "in range," and you have recorded your watering routine with amounts + any nutrients added to the feed, then you can begin to sift through a chart. However, as you have said yourself, the symptoms can be shared by a number of different issues. This is why it's important to have good records so you can go back through your notes to help diagnose issues.

@Grownsince95 stated it pretty well ... the data will always point you to the right issue once you have the experience to be able to tell the subtle differences in what you're observing and the relationship it has with the environment or nutrient cycle.
 
If you are in the USA, you can take a sample of your soil to your local agriculture office where they can test it with pretty much state of the art equipment. Since what you're doing is more than just "growing a few plants" and you're actually trying to dial in sensors that measure different conditions in real time ... this extra step might prove beneficial in either refuting or backing up your data.

After-all, data is data. Garbage in, garbage out. However, data that is accurate and properly defined can make a lot of difference in what you're attempting to do because you're starting with accurate numbers.
I've thought about doing this, and you're absolutely right about doing this to verify sensor data, unfortunately bc it seems like it keeps being glanced over my current sensors do not detect nutrients, just water. So i cant use the sensor to refute nutrient data, but i can use it to refute that the soil hasn't been over watered.

I have heard of sending samples to local colleges that have a AG department to provide soil nutrient levels to farmers, but it was never stated if it costs money, maybe you would know?
 
Did you test for Mg? Because that's what I mentioned. I also asked you follow up questions that got ignored. It must be because you know better.

This is not a a leaf with a potassium issue. This is classic Mg. There are subtle differences which you mistook for something else and used your data to back up your own assumptions. That illustration you posted is garbage and just causes more confusion. Look at real pics from real plants.

For future reference K is gonna start at the edges and work it's way inwards, not start in the middle of the veins.

View attachment 2446931
In the photo shown in the post by @Grownsince95, yes its classic magnesium issues ... but it goes beyond just that. It's also telling me that you're trying to drive your plants too hard with light. Photosynthesis breaks down when magnesium issues occur. Why? Because its the central most atom in the photosynthesis reaction. Turning down the lights a bit usually gives a grower some extra time to correct the problem before it becomes crash and burn.

The nice thing about lighting is it can be turned back up once the problem has been corrected.
 
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