induction lighting

[webehigh]

Has anybody tried these? What's your opinion they say they are like led cool to run less power use but is much stronger with intensity and canopy penetration I saw a few decent journals what do you guys think about them

 

[squiggly]

Has anybody tried these? What's your opinion they say they are like led cool to run less power use but is much stronger with intensity and canopy penetration I saw a few decent journals what do you guys think about them

They run hotter than LEDs by quite a bit--but still quite cool.

The tradeoff is that they are significantly more effective than LEDs without a doubt.

I am currently on my first run with Inda-Gro lighting. Veg is going swimmingly but obviously the real test will be flower.


From what I've seen so far, the 420W Inda-Gro significantly outperforms 400W of LEDs (by way more than 20W worth).

I actually imagine that Induction with LED as supplemental would be an absolutely dynamite combination. I literally don't have the room to use my LEDS this way in my setup (at least not for this run) or I'd be doing exactly this.

I can recommend that LED users give induction a try--as I can't imagine this thing will underperform LED based on what I've seen thus far, but it will remain to be seen if I can recommend them outright until flower is over.

The journals I've seen have been very promising. Comparable (not equal to) HPS/MH but with much lower heat and lower wattage in general (especially after you figure in cooling costs).

 

[webehigh]

Sounds like your all for them so far have you began flower are you using 1 light? I was onIndia grows site and saw they have a 420 pro with red led on the sides and red phosphorus in the tube its running about $1500 I wonder how the yield and quality would be if you put around 10 of these in a big room thats what I'm considering. I currently run 5k in hps not including ac fans etc I want to go bigger but not have anout of ordinary electric bill I'm already pushing it I think

 

[squiggly]

Sounds like your all for them so far have you began flower are you using 1 light? I was onIndia grows site and saw they have a 420 pro with red led on the sides and red phosphorus in the tube its running about $1500 I wonder how the yield and quality would be if you put around 10 of these in a big room thats what I'm considering. I currently run 5k in hps not including ac fans etc I want to go bigger but not have anout of ordinary electric bill I'm already pushing it I think

I haven't flipped yet, I'm still in veg. I can get back to you in a few months with results--but that's the best I can do. (Verbal results only, I will not post pictures)

As for what I think, I think it'd do great and you'd end up either saving money or breaking even when comparing the reduced cooling electrical cost.

That is what I think though, not what I have experienced, and certainly not what I can prove. That is pure assumption based on veg observations only.

Now I'm a little lost on the $1500 cost, where is that coming from? Never mind, I just checked out the site.

I've gotta say the design behind the pontoon is ingenious. It is playing off of the Far red activation of flowering. This is a university studied and confirmed effect and is present, to my knowledge, in all flowering plants.

This depends on the conversion of the protein Pfr to the protein Pr when it is:

1. exposed to far red light.

2. Exposed to no light.

Usually the absence of light causes Pfr to convert naturally to Pr which triggers the flowering response.

Irradiating with 730nm light causes this conversion to happen instantly (when all other lights are off).

Thusly, their design is really quite intelligent and I must admit I've given thought to employing a similar DIY setup in my flowering chamber.

In addition to the benefits they claim, this can actually be used to achieve flowering while staying on a lighting schedule significantly longer than 12/12. You might even be able to approach 18/6 and still get a flowering response (though I wouldn't push it this far--probably more like 16/8 or 15/9 is what I'd do).

Now, all that said I must add a caveat.

While this additional system will work, without question (if the diodes in use are the proper wavelength of 730nm and they have adequate penetration to irradiate the plants--as i believe they will from this supplier)--I can't imagine spending an additional $700 for it.

While ingenious it doesn't seem worth that to me by a long shot.

If the price was $900 I might be looking into returning my 420-PAR for the pontoon model (I JUST purchased this thing and the pontoon model was not yet being offered).

For an extra $700, Inda-Gro can hang it the fuck up.

My recommendation is to go with the 420PAR and rig your own 730nm light array and simply run it for 5 minutes longer than your main lights. You will get the same result and likely for much cheaper.

I do appreciate the utility of the product and think that some less technologically/scientifically inclined folks might benefit from it--but the price seems gougy to me, and that unfortunate because that isn't what I'd come to expect from this company.

I would pay tops $1100 for that model and I'd feel bad about it if I did--I'd only pay that out of pure laziness.

 

[webehigh]

Thanks for the detailed response i might go with what you have and add my own led plus i will be doing sog and i think that is ideal for led and induction and I don't mind it costing more if it will pay for itself in a matter of months I will try to find more journals but I might just have to find out for myself and 1 more question what LED company do you use?

 

[squiggly]

Thanks for the detailed response i might go with what you have and add my own led plus i will be doing sog and i think that is ideal for led and induction and I don't mind it costing more if it will pay for itself in a matter of months I will try to find more journals but I might just have to find out for myself and 1 more question what LED company do you use?

I went with pro-grow LEDs from hydroponicshut.com

I got a few decent harvests under them--from a closet growing perspective. I can recommend them with confidence.

However, I can't say how well they compare with other LEDs as these are the only boards I have experience with. There may very well be better out there. These were cost effective, though.

 

[Sarlacc]

Resident Chemistry Nerd!! Love it!!

It may be that the indoor garden lighting systems we use will be a combination of these technologies to hit peak spectrums at lights on and use low wattage diodes to activate the Pfr conversion at lights off. Better gardens at less expense. I would also think that as these get into mass production the pricing would come down. But from what it appears if the yield is increased by 20% or more than the justification for an extra $600 and 40 watts is not too hard to justify.

 

[squiggly]

Resident Chemistry Nerd!! Love it!!

It may be that the indoor garden lighting systems we use will be a combination of these technologies to hit peak spectrums at lights on and use low wattage diodes to activate the Pfr conversion at lights off. Better gardens at less expense. I would also think that as these get into mass production the pricing would come down. But from what it appears if the yield is increased by 20% or more than the justification for an extra $600 and 40 watts is not too hard to justify.

Not when you can build your own for much cheaper. Laziness is worth something, but it's not worth $600.

 

[LexLuthor]

If you plan on switching out a room of 5k HPS for a room of 10 x 420w plasmas then you should try and do some math to see if it would be worth it.

The 1st thing you should look at is how much you yield from each light and how much space they take up. Then think about using 2 plasmas to get the same yield, but then again it might take more space. Everybody knows the HPS will produce more on a sq.ft. basis, so you have to cram 10 lights within whatever space you have and hope it yields as much as the HPS lights do.

Whatever money you save on electrical costs, its usually not gonna cover the loss of yield when using high performance hydro systems with a dialed-in grow room and HPS lights. If that was the case alot of these big timers would be using plasmas, but they don't.

Don't get me wrong, these lights are amazing for veg and are great supplements for HPS during flower, but honestly, I've never seen somebody use these lights and say they produce nearly as much as HPS, unless they were a sales rep.

I have no idea how much you produce with your 5k, but IMO I think it would be better for you to switch 1 HPS light for 1-2 plasmas to see how they perform before you switch an entire room over. Whatever you decide to do good luck.

P.S. IME talkin to Inda-Gro reps on forums, that company is wacko, go with Gavita.

 

[Sarlacc]

Looking forward to seeing your final setup squiggly. Saving money and getting results is always good! Thanks for sharing.

Everybody knows the HPS will produce more on a sq.ft. basis, so you have to cram 10 lights within whatever space you have and hope it yields as much as the HPS lights do.

He's using induction not plasma with LED for supplement and Pfr response. I'm not getting where he's 'cramming 10 lights' in his garden. If you get the weight/quality near or better than the HID systems that use twice the wattage by combining these technologies then it's good to know how he did it. BTW I don't see where Gavita makes an induction system or inda-grow makes a plasma. I think you may be confusing the two technologies.

 

[LexLuthor]

I did, its the other way around, my bad.

I'm not talking about Squiggly cramming 10 lights in his garden, I'm talking about the OP, webehigh. He said he has 5k HPS, so I assume he is talking about 5 1000w lights. Then he said he wants to use 10 induction lights, so again, I assumed he was talking about the same space he uses the 5 1k's in.

I don't think its smart to switch 5 1k's to 10 induction lights without any experience using those lights because he could end up being disappointed. I think it would be better to swap out 1 HPS and see how the induction light does before he drops $10-$15k on lights.

 

[pugliese63]

I haven't flipped yet, I'm still in veg. I can get back to you in a few months with results--but that's the best I can do. (Verbal results only, I will not post pictures)

As for what I think, I think it'd do great and you'd end up either saving money or breaking even when comparing the reduced cooling electrical cost.

That is what I think though, not what I have experienced, and certainly not what I can prove. That is pure assumption based on veg observations only.

Now I'm a little lost on the $1500 cost, where is that coming from? Never mind, I just checked out the site.

I've gotta say the design behind the pontoon is ingenious. It is playing off of the Far red activation of flowering. This is a university studied and confirmed effect and is present, to my knowledge, in all flowering plants.

This depends on the conversion of the protein Pfr to the protein Pr when it is:

1. exposed to far red light.

2. Exposed to no light.

Usually the absence of light causes Pfr to convert naturally to Pr which triggers the flowering response.

Irradiating with 730nm light causes this conversion to happen instantly (when all other lights are off).

Thusly, their design is really quite intelligent and I must admit I've given thought to employing a similar DIY setup in my flowering chamber.

In addition to the benefits they claim, this can actually be used to achieve flowering while staying on a lighting schedule significantly longer than 12/12. You might even be able to approach 18/6 and still get a flowering response (though I wouldn't push it this far--probably more like 16/8 or 15/9 is what I'd do).

Now, all that said I must add a caveat.

While this additional system will work, without question (if the diodes in use are the proper wavelength of 730nm and they have adequate penetration to irradiate the plants--as i believe they will from this supplier)--I can't imagine spending an additional $700 for it.

While ingenious it doesn't seem worth that to me by a long shot.

If the price was $900 I might be looking into returning my 420-PAR for the pontoon model (I JUST purchased this thing and the pontoon model was not yet being offered).

For an extra $700, Inda-Gro can hang it the fuck up.

My recommendation is to go with the 420PAR and rig your own 730nm light array and simply run it for 5 minutes longer than your main lights. You will get the same result and likely for much cheaper.

I do appreciate the utility of the product and think that some less technologically/scientifically inclined folks might benefit from it--but the price seems gougy to me, and that unfortunate because that isn't what I'd come to expect from this company.

I would pay tops $1100 for that model and I'd feel bad about it if I did--I'd only pay that out of pure laziness.

Like yourself, I'm interested in replicating the effect of the 730 nm LED that are used in Inda-GRO's pontoon but not interested in paying that ridiculous price. I like the fact that you mention this is a university studied and confirmed effect and not just a manufacturer's claim.

I recently came across this:

http://www.buildmyled.com/730nm-far-red/

I'm switching one of my rooms to induction and considering hanging a few of these between the reflectors. Basically using three I- Grow induction lights I want hang four 48" 730 nm LED units with 90 degree wide angle dispersion in between connected to a photosensitive timer set for 5 minutes at lights off to try and replicate the effects of the pontoon.

Its still not cheap but for this setup it would be about half the price of three pontoons.

I'd be interested to hear what your or anyone else thoughts may be regarding this set up. I'm really interested in the correct amount or balance of IR light. I think too much IR light would be detrimental. Like everything in nature its all about balance.

 

[chazbolin]

Usually the absence of light causes Pfr to convert naturally to Pr which triggers the flowering response.

Irradiating with 730nm light causes this conversion to happen instantly (when all other lights are off).

True up! Regardless what lamp one decides to use for flowering, having the 730's running at lights out represents an opportunity to extend the photoperiod to match the plants outdoor genetics. Theoretically you should be able to run straight indica's indoors. I would think the LED guys would already be all over this on battery backed systems (low wattage short duration) so you won't need to mess with timers or additional power supplies.

I'm really interested in the correct amount or balance of IR light. I think too much IR light would be detrimental. Like everything in nature its all about balance.

My current set up has two 420's in the veg room and two 420/Pontoon combo's in the flower room. The 730nm wavelength does not need to be of high intensity to trigger the Pfr response. If you look at the infrared capture of the 730's (far red) at lights out you can see how far 6 watts goes in terms of coverage and canopy penetration. The only reason they run them for 5 minutes at lights out is from what I've been told is for saturation. If you're going for infrared bandwidths that would be detrimental as I've not seen any net action absorption data that would support the need for wavelengths above 730nm.

https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633/InHouseGarden1#5835240452458010738

 

[justhydronow]

Induction lights are basically high wattage CFLs that are more efficient. I have seen users getting good results though the cost of electricity goes up.

 

[pugliese63]

True up! Regardless what lamp one decides to use for flowering, having the 730's running at lights out represents an opportunity to extend the photoperiod to match the plants outdoor genetics. Theoretically you should be able to run straight indica's indoors. I would think the LED guys would already be all over this on battery backed systems (low wattage short duration) so you won't need to mess with timers or additional power supplies.



My current set up has two 420's in the veg room and two 420/Pontoon combo's in the flower room. The 730nm wavelength does not need to be of high intensity to trigger the Pfr response. If you look at the infrared capture of the 730's (far red) at lights out you can see how far 6 watts goes in terms of coverage and canopy penetration. The only reason they run them for 5 minutes at lights out is from what I've been told is for saturation. If you're going for infrared bandwidths that would be detrimental as I've not seen any net action absorption data that would support the need for wavelengths above 730nm.

https://picasaweb.google.com/117165142682869295633
/InHouseGarden1#5835240452458010738

If you look at the infrared capture of the 730's (far red) at lights out you can see how far 6 watts goes in terms of coverage and canopy penetration.

Thanks, this really helps. I've been overestimating the amount of 730 nm light I was going to need. I was considering running four 4' 60 LED fixtures with a 90 degree wide angle dispersion between 3 I-Grows on a 4x8 table.

http://www.buildmyled.com/730nm-far-red/

Obviously this is overkill. Two would seem to be more than adequate for my set up and possibly only need to be 3'. My greatest concern is getting even canopy coverage.

I'm going to continue looking at various LED fixtures that would be practical for this application. I've also had my eye on these.



These seem to be perfect but my concern is that using induction lighting the hoods are so much closer unlike HID's. I don't know that I could install these and get ideal coverage with so much less distance between canopy and hood. With HID's I think these would be ideal. They also make a 10 watt version of these as well.

Thanks again for sharing your experience with this. I believe this will become a standard application in the near future. I look forward to continued discussion on this subject.