Infection or Nutrients Deficiency? Please help. Urgent.

[singa]

HI Guys,

Before you read please check last picture attached where I added specification off my setup to make it easier to diagnose the issue here.

This morning I spotted yellow spots on one plant as you can see on picture 2. Few google searches suggested it is Sulphur deficiency and that Epsom salt is a good remedy.
I first thought I would spray them with Epsom Salt but then looking closer I found there is actually 3 plants having such leaves very close to each other. As far I can see there is just 5-6 leaves on theses 3 plants. I moved all 3 out of the grow room and cut off sick levees. I'm now thinking it is some infection. What do you guys think?

I'm growing it in organic soil mixed with a lot coco and perlite. Sorry idk exact specifics. Feeding with full HESI line.

I think I did a mistake by putting a filter on incoming the inline fan a week ago or so.. That was to remove pollution/dust (there is a factory behind the grow room) but that seriously blocked the amount of incoming air. You could feel the air wasn't fresh when you enter the room. What's more humidity was over 70% and temp 28 C. So I removed the filter and increased the speed and frequency of outgoing inline fan. I have also reduced humidity to around 60% and increased light dimmer from 70% to full power. After that I have noticed improved airflow and air quality but I'm thinking that unpleasant air from before could be related to some sort of infection on these leaves which I'm having now.

The other issue I'm seeing here is that the steams are week (soft, flexible) but it looks as they improve after they got more light and fresh air.

What else could go wrong here?

Thanks :)

 

[Frankster]

What kind of lights you using in there?
Distance to the canopy?


Control your temps, there acceptable, but could come down a bit. Needs more ventilation and air blowing around by the looks of it... I like to make a whirlwind or some directional thing in the room, personally get the fans working in tandem...

You need like 3-4 more of them big ones.... by the looks of it.


Once you get into flower I think you can do a defol to control the humidity at some point, but it doesn't look like it's there yet, and you need to get your environmental factors in line, or your going to loose control of that grow room, there not babies anymore.

Put in some more air flow devices if need be.
++ for a dehumid unit... U going to need it with all them plants in a little room like that...

 

[Frankster]

As for the nutes, it doesn't look typical, but it does look like magnesium, or possibly calcium to me. I lean toward magnesium. Would like to see some close up's on some of those other leaves. Would be interested to hear what others have to say...

Looks like light intensity is a limiting factor in that room, drop them lights down some for Gods sake. Plants don't grow well in starlight. The beauty of that light design is how close you can get them to the plants, not how far you keep them away...

You need to find a happy zone, and the amount of plants in there might simply be too much for the setup, or perhaps double the fixtures, and add in more ventilation... Those are the best choices IMO.

 

[singa]

The lights are Mars Hydro FC 6500 + FC-E 6500
The distance while verging was about 100 cm. I make it that high as they started to grow very little in height but huge leaves, strawberries shape like. From last 2 days I lower it down to about 40 cm from canopies.

I also feel like air circulation could be better. I see that the swamp cooler along these 2 black fans blow the air to much on the front row of the grow space mostly.
How about if I put 3 large rotating fans moving the air all around the room above the plants?

Also what about the Infection / Deficiency problem. Could you please address this issue?

 

[singa]

I'm confused on the light distance really. I used to be all in into keeping the lights as close as possible from start but noticed vey short and bushy grow following by low harvest on my previous grow.
This time having the light so close, beside short grow I also noticed taco leaves which I thought comes from the light source being to close however it could be related more to heat. What do you think?

 

[Frankster]

I'm confused on the light distance really. I used to be all in into keeping the lights as close as possible from start but noticed vey short and bushy grow following by low harvest on my previous grow.
This time having the light so close, beside short grow I also noticed taco leaves which I thought comes from the light source being to close however it could be related more to heat. What do you think?

I would go by what the plants are telling you honestly. I've dialed things up close on the plant, but certainly how you've got them right now in veg there probably fine. Those lights are certainly high powered. I'm just used to blasting them fully, that's all. I think for efficiency sake, the closer they'll tolerate the better, overall. Thus the idea of the spider type grow panels, because the quantum were far too tight intense foot print.

If there in veg, I would blast them with say a mag sulfate foliar, it certainly isn't going to hurt them, and it will likely inhibit any mold or stuff that could be starting to flair up from the high humidity, if you balance it with high pH... I would add in something that's going to bump your ph up to around 7.5-8, so you don't end up getting a fungal thing going on (up) there. Bump up the pH somehow, I use potassium bicarb, but possibly Calcium Bicarb would be a better choice here.

Always... pH below the roots <6.5, above the roots >7

Or do it below, (in the root zone) and treat the top side with something else that's going to raise your pH (like castile soap, and water, or vegetable glycerin). Or a fungicide... But giving (both) via foliar will work faster.

 

[singa]

here is some better pictures of the plants

 

[singa]

mag sulfate foliar

thats another term for epsom salt right?
are you saying it will kill the infection?
and sorry, 1 mag? you get me lost.
im from land of smiles, perhaps don't get the language right :)

 

[Frankster]

Yea, overall they look fine, just a little droopy and not very well engaged as I would normally like to see.

 

[Frankster]

thats another term for epsom salt right?
are you saying it will kill the infection?
and sorry, 1 mag? you get me lost.
im from land of smiles, perhaps don't get the language right :)

Nah, I'm saying the epsom will address the interveinal chlorosis in the leaves....

But, you need to raise the pH, so you don't fuck up the plants.... with a pH that's acidic. Raise it.. so it imparts a therapeutic response in the plant. ie. gives it some fungal protection. Higher pH is optimal for that nutrient uptake, plus will have the side benefit of mitigating any fungal development. Immediately.

If you give it in the root zone, leave it as is... But those plants look sorta soggy to begin with.
You probably would benefit reading up on some of the threads here about watering media, and water tables. Letting the plant dry out properly...
Here:

HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

No doubt that works for you but there would be a big difference in how it works with someone in a 1 gal contain and a 5 gal with differing media amendments like perlite, vermiculite or hydroton. For those wondering what a water table is...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[singa]

Yea, overall they look fine, just a little droopy and not very well engaged as I would normally like to see.

Exactly! I have never see that on my previous grows (4).

also they are not droppy like that normaly. The pictures were taken just after watering during dark period.

I will post some more pictures once the lights go on and lets hope they stretch leaves upwards...

 

[Frankster]

Exactly! I have never see that on my previous grows (4).

also they are not droppy like that normaly. The pictures were taken just after watering during dark period.

I will post some more pictures once the lights go on and lets hope they stretch leaves upwards...

Yea, I kinda figured that my be the case, but there's some other signs there also present, so it's no doubt an issue to some degree. Maybe even dare I say, clawing which indicates a possible nitrogen excess. Or perhaps more nitrogen than is being currently absorbed though photosynthesis. Looks like a bottleneck of sorts, actually. ie. in relation to nutrient uptake, vs transpiration vs photosynthesis.

Not exactly sure which is the biggest factor. Several different symptoms present.
Somethings is off here, maybe aqua or someone else can put their finger on it better.
Interested in what others have to say here.

You seeing any fliers or bugs at all?

 

[singa]

But, you need to raise the pH, so you don't fuck up the plants.... with a pH that's acidic. Raise it.. so it imparts a therapeutic response in the plant. ie. gives it some fungal protection. Higher pH is optimal for that nutrient uptake, plus will have the side benefit of mitigating any fungal development.

the pH reads around 7.4

really to low ?

 

[singa]

you give it in the root zone, leave it as is... But those plants look sorta soggy to begin with.

Don't understand what you mean exactly. Sorry

 

[Frankster]

the pH reads around 7.4
View attachment 1146166
really to low ?

Well that is telling...

Ph in the soil is Alkaline? You sure about that? That would be very bad.
Can you check runoff to be sure? Do you have a different ph meter?

One more time:
pH in the canopy (the leaves) should be >7 (ideally 7.5-8)
PH below the root line (ie. in the soil) should be <6.5 (ideally 6 in most cases)

 

[Frankster]

Don't understand what you mean exactly. Sorry

The plants look droopy, they look like the bottoms have been perpetually wet, for the most part and not allowed a natural wet dry cycle. Plants need a drought cycle. Too much moisture in the base is bad bad double bad.

pot size in this grow was overdone. and has effected you ability to dry the plants, and it's in all likely hood raising the humidity within the room artifically.
Read the above information I have provided in the link above. it will cover that information well.

 

[singa]

Also...

Do you still think they are veging after i posted close up pictures?

I noticed white hairs few days ago. I just switched the base fertilizer to bloomer today.

 

[Frankster]

Also...

Do you still think they are veging after i posted close up pictures?

I noticed white hairs few days ago. I just switched the base fertilizer to bloomer today.

Personally, I think bloomer is a bit premature, actually. Leave that first dose for now, and maybe do half doses for the first week. Certainly don't be piling on phosphorus yet, it's not there. Mag Sulfate, and Calcium is what your needing right now, actually. Perhaps in a week or so.

Do you have some sort of grow formula schedule your using?

 

[singa]

And th

Maybe even dare I say, clawing which indicates a possible nitrogen excess

I would bet on it as well as i saw leaves crowling down on few plants after TNT Complex from the Hesi line. This one has a reputation of being to strong.

i decreased recommended dose to half on last feeding after seeing that.

 

[singa]

I did read the thread you posted. Well to be honest just the first long post by Aquaman about watering in coco :)
Will take closer look later on its 35 pages.

My medium is not so Coco.
There is
30-40% coco
30% organic soil
10% peat moss
the rest is perlite and worm shit

I dug the soil on one of the plants to check how roots are growing.

3 days after watering 2 top inch were dry then everything below still wet humid but not dump. I noticed roots growing down the pot where the medium seeams optimal for them.

So I water them every 5 days usually together with feeding exactly as on schedule below.