Seamaiden
Living dead girl
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This is 100% true. It's why I preferred using filtered seawater over salt mix when I was keeping miniature reef. LBAOP uses filtered seawater, too, even though they don't really keep much in the way of inverts.Ocean water is like human blood and humans are unable to duplicate it in a lab.
ThanksGood points. Wanted to share since you mentioned some interesting ideas.
There is an excellent book called Fertility from the ocean deep that eloborates on ocean water benefits for agriculture. Highly recommended.
Ocean water is like human blood and humans are unable to duplicate it in a lab.
The sea water contains many critical enzyme co factors that are critical to enzymes in order to complete biochemical processes in the soil. Vanadium, titanium, selenium etc.
Each enzyme fits a co-factor like a nut fits a wrench. But there is only one process associated with the enzyme.
For example: Mineral A is a co factor for enzyme A. But mineral A is not a co-factor for enzyme B.
Nitrogen fixing, calcium availability etc.
For example:
If you do not have cobalt in the soil, it is critical to making b12.
If you are lacking in b12, calcium availability then could then be lacking.
You are quite right to suggest its virtually impossible to be accurate on PPMs in organics, save to say we have to continue to feed the microbes, and they need to know there is more, or they will start a fight with our plant for the N.@Funkadelic sheeeit, I was an English major. Didn't write this myself, just found it and read it over a couple times. Thanks for the shout out regarding the paint strainer bags, I just so happen to have some on the shelf.
@Ecompost thanks for the insights, sir. Quite thought-provoking as always. Are you positing that the npk shown in the above test results is different than if I mixed chelated minerals to reach the same values? Different in that, because it is derived from Organics, the plant will just take what it needs off of the table (so to speak) whereas with salts it's being force-fed?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, from what I understand, there is no cut and dry formula for determining the exact available npk from organic additives due to all the variables that make them bio-available. Nothing like hydro buddy or cannastats. I am/was considering finding how many grams are in a 1/2 c of the frass and using that and the above lab analysis to find out precise ppms of the stuff and tailoring the dosage to my nute profile.
I was racking my brain against this idea all day and decided it may be best to simply top dress small amounts of the frass every other week (1tbsp/gal of medium, like with ewc), take notes, and possibly double up the last 3-4 weeks of flower.
I was picturing I'd have to treat frass applications like MOAB or the like, bumping down the ec of my base fertilizer by half before adding a high pk solution made from soaking the frass.
Just to add also, esp relevant for outdoor growers or no till. Organics need to be converted, this conversion based on C/N and rates of Decay as well as NPK values. Your biomass residue from the past crop will provide some NPK and just as there are charts for Guano, Kelp Alfalfa etc etc, there are charts for many common agri crops, for example Oats, Barley, Manures and so on are all listed by C/N and NPK etc. Depending on what this is, what the existing C/N ratio of the media is, existing moisture and temp therefore and time to decay past residues, there may always be inherent NPK and PPMs you might also consider and any inputs having a C/N will likely degrade at differing rates., . It is also worth noting you will need to portion N for microbes where microbes are used to decay past material or added inputs such as kelp meal and recycle in to new NPK plant ready. So in order to work out if you need to add N, even after a soil test, you would need to counter the residues if any, done simply BioN= BioC/8 where 8 is the percentage of N required by organic microbes to mineralise in to ionsThanks everyone for the responses, I definitely learned a few things here.
@leadsled thanks for posting that chart. When it refers to an acre does it mean a ft. acre? I'm trying to find a conversion factor to calculate the ppms of amendments for cubic feet (or yards).
Thanks everyone for the responses, I definitely learned a few things here.
@leadsled thanks for posting that chart. When it refers to an acre does it mean a ft. acre? I'm trying to find a conversion factor to calculate the ppms of amendments for cubic feet (or yards).
cool :-)It refers to a furrowslice acre. That is an acre 6 3/4" deep.
Weight is 2,000,000 lbs divide in half and you have 1,000,000 ppm of nutrients.
View attachment 594123
Source:
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_022760.pdf
to convert cubic feet to gallons.
cubic feet x 7.48=gallons
acre-foot is 43,560 cubic feet
acre-foot = 1613.3 cubic yards
acre-foot is 325,848 gallons
1 acre foot weights 4,000,000 lbs
1 square yard = 9 square feet
Acre-furrow-slice = one acre to a depth of 6 2/3 inches. +/- 2,000,000 lbs of soil.
Acre-foot = one acre to a depth of 12 inches. 4,000,000 lbs of soil.
IMHO, Frass is an excellent product to use all the way through flower.
There is much more to the product than chitin so good to use to harvest.
Hope that helps.
Plants get the most benefit from SAR/ JAR via Chitin pathways up to about day 21 of flower, after which the protein is no longer secreted. to my knowledge. The practice of accompanying it with Mycos is a very sound one mate.Good info! I use a small amount of frass on transplants in coordination with mycorrhiza. I also use it as a foliar, and my soil has crustacean meal so chitin is present from that too.
Powdered malted grains (corn, barley) top dressed and watered in with fulvic/humic substance and/or aloe seems ideal after applying frass.
Indeed bud I haven't got to make liquid chitin yet, what did you use? I was thinking crustacean meal/frass combo diversity of natural occurring microbes in the dry materials would add some benefits, I assume. If I was close to the coast Velella would be another cool option(has a chitinous sail), and should have good properties from SW. What would be ideal to use? LAB, BRV, IMOs, sugars? Heat and a strong base (NaOH) to get it in the bio form chitosan? @Ecompost
Just ... wow. Okay.I keep trying to tell people that there is not so much value in pouring NPK as the world was tricked in to believing. There are a fair few insects, and so a fair bit of NPK etc etc. Furthermore, this frass bio organic NPK does not destroy vital soil carbon as you likely know and Chitin based proteins are among some of the vital components of N fixation, and so help counter any lost productivity in sterile or managed media.
Just a little thing, Bokashi will increase related yeast fungus, and while I am super impressed with the SAR offering on my trich density, I noted that the late addition added time to any ripening process.
I find it a much better proposition to use sea minerals, non fermented but mixed at a ratio of 1:30 as a finishing solution. I am not entirely sure why yet, but the sea minerals do appear to have a response which allows a more uniform ripening, beyond using any pro biotic inputs. i tend to switch out to sea water about 2 weeks before harvest, but i do use a c14 sugar sup called Bio Floret for the first week (K malate among others) since the pro biotics do appear to keep the sugar uptake ramped, we may as well use it to the last :)
BTW, sea water is usually free but do choose a clean beach with good quality bathing water :) Mix with RO and bingo. You are doing the job of a bear feeding on salmon returning to the woods to scratch claws and have a shit, so transporting the power of the oceans in land.
I like this post a lot Henry, super work well spotted
I wonder if a complex, large reef tank with a lot of biodiversity and exudate would produce skimmate to compliment our fertiliser inputs. Like we discussed.This is 100% true. It's why I preferred using filtered seawater over salt mix when I was keeping miniature reef. LBAOP uses filtered seawater, too, even though they don't really keep much in the way of inverts.
yes sir, I find it can speed up the slow, while a higher dose can slow down too. I found 1:15 a little on the hot side however, plants showed a minor tip bleach and stalled for a couple of days while i brewed in some protozoa to help balance my over admission :) I find Protozoa teas to be more than a little helpful in picking up my mistakes :)Just ... wow. Okay.
So... 30 to 1 fresh to (clean) ocean water for flush? @Seamaiden and I have discussed salt water reef tank skimmate as a dilute supplement before.
You're seeing a healthy uniform finish this way?
considering the origins of Microbial Loop, i would say you would be porting a natural cycle, al be it one which you closely manage, and this would almost certainly have benefits. I know sea water is hard to replicate, but the essential benefits of fish and marine microorganisms will be relatively harmonised in your system and so perhaps are close enough for resonance to take over. :-) do let me know. Aquaponics is riding high over here, this is a manifestation of that to some extent i guess :-)I wonder if a complex, large reef tank with a lot of biodiversity and exudate would produce skimmate to compliment our fertiliser inputs. Like we discussed.
Terrestrial plants didn't evolve to break down coral excretion, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be an enormous benefit.
awesome :-) I am happy to see so many of us tending the needs of a whole system and not seeing the plant as the sole point of focus. yes we want our plants to succeed, but more and more of us know this works better if we share our work with those organisms that have been designed for that purpose also. The more you think, the harder it is to justify a visit to a store that sells things we are learning are detrimental, if not to us, then to our childrens childreni use frass for the microbes and chitin for the SAR on my ladys in late flowering. i bought a 5lb bag for this year to top dress my plants on week 1 of flower. i should also add that i use Regalia which activates ISR so the combo of SAR and ISR has been pretty effective for me and my climate
but would probably like to add black soldier flies to the mix. Problem IS that I had larvae in our garage and didn't know what they were so I fed them to my chickens. Maybe I'll find a few more before we move.
wow that is awesomeI started raising black soldier flys and feeding the larvae to my chickens. Then I found them in the pine flakes bedding and they wer eating the chicken poop. I just kept dumping the cleanout into a barrel with drainage holes around the base of it. The larvae thrived and each generation kept coming. Winter came and I dumped the barrel in a pile under some trees. This was a dead, barren area due to shade, and red sand clay that kills anything. The next spring, it was the healthiest parcel of dirt on my land (except for the heavily forested acreage.)
And it spread to a about a 30 ft radius with a beautiful lush grass of what type and origin I know not!
I started raising black soldier flys and feeding the larvae to my chickens. Then I found them in the pine flakes bedding and they wer eating the chicken poop. I just kept dumping the cleanout into a barrel with drainage holes around the base of it. The larvae thrived and each generation kept coming. Winter came and I dumped the barrel in a pile under some trees. This was a dead, barren area due to shade, and red sand clay that kills anything. The next spring, it was the healthiest parcel of dirt on my land (except for the heavily forested acreage.)
And it spread to a about a 30 ft radius with a beautiful lush grass of what type and origin I know not!
wow that is awesome
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