insectisidal soap

[greenjoe]

insecticidal soap

I sprayed some plants with insecticidal soap..and almost 6 hrs later this showed upon my leafs......the others i did not spray and they don't have this problem(just the first 2 pics)..................................... Last 2 pics ..the new growth on top is growing wrinkled,,,,no burn marks???...Any advice will be helpful.....thanks .....also they should pull through this?

 

[sedate]

insecticidal soap

You mean potassium salts of fatty acids?

What brand/concentration? Link to the product page.

the others i did not spray and they don't have this problem(just the first 2 pics)..................................... Last 2 pics ..the new growth on top is growing wrinkled,,,,no burn marks???...Any advice will be helpful.....thanks .....also they should pull through this

Um. Potassium salts are awfully benign.

Did you spray the plant while it was in the sun?

Eitherway, they look like they'll be fine to me.

When you treat your plants, take them inside - out of direct light for a few hours - until the spray dries completely on the leaves.

 

[greenjoe]

i think you would be right...it was really hot when i did it...last night i sprayed them off with the hose.....the soap is called .Bug-b-gone by Scotts

http://www.scotts.ca/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?proId=prod10420019

 

[greenjoe]

also i used the concentrate ....could have been made to strong....learn something new all the time..

 

[sedate]

Wow that's an amazingly useless product page.

Um. Yea if ur using a concentrate, then obviously the final mix could be anything if you were not precise.

Does the active ingridient list anything besides Potassium salts? Scotts is a big chemical company - a synergist somewhere wouldn't suprise me.

Honestly - I doubt even the full strength concentrate would hurt the plants on its own - like I said that stuff is awfully benign. I start my flower cycle with a 4x-strength blast of the shit out of a plant mister.

I dunno for sure though. I use Safer brand.

Um. Spray the plants after dark and let them sit all night to dry.

Wet plants do that magnifying glass>ant thing and can do all kinds of funky things to plants.

The plants really look okay though.

 

[greenjoe]

Thanks Sedate.......when i get back i'll look at the ingredients

 

[bigrippen]

if you used k salts of fatty acids it will raise the ph through the roof. if you did use this, the 10+ ph fried your leaves. wash it off with ph'd water next time you use it

 

[greenjoe]

the bottle does not list any friggen ingredients......................................thanks bigrippen

 

[TwoCreeks]

If those are outdoor plants I can't imagine why you are having to treat them. Outdoor plants will have a few insect pests, but other than caterpillers and grasshoppers I've never seen enough damage done to outdoor plants to have them need to be treated. The outdoor environment is not conducive to the kind of infestations that can happen in an indoor room. If you are going to spray, I would do it in the evening, or put them in a shady spot during the day after spraying. Those plants will recover from this small, temporary set-back.

 

[greenjoe]

little flies that were eating all the fan leafs...not only MJ plants but alot of my everyday flowers...some were eaten to nothing.....under control now....my mistake was spraying them in the freakin 92 degree sun...duh...my excuse is that this is our first summer in 4 years that is actually summer....lesson learned.....thanks for all the help

 

[MoppinSauce]

Wow that's an amazingly useless product page.

Um. Yea if ur using a concentrate, then obviously the final mix could be anything if you were not precise.

Does the active ingridient list anything besides Potassium salts? Scotts is a big chemical company - a synergist somewhere wouldn't suprise me.

Honestly - I doubt even the full strength concentrate would hurt the plants on its own - like I said that stuff is awfully benign. I start my flower cycle with a 4x-strength blast of the shit out of a plant mister.

I dunno for sure though. I use Safer brand.

Um. Spray the plants after dark and let them sit all night to dry.

Wet plants do that magnifying glass>ant thing and can do all kinds of funky things to plants.

The plants really look okay though.

Sedate, question for you. Do you rinse between applications? I am trying to determine if I have a cal/mag deficiency or if I am burning the leaves because I am not washing the safer off in between applications. I did see somewhere that Chimera recommended washing the solution off in between applications.

I just finished my third application on Monday so hopefully things will begin to turn around. Its a shame cuz they were all so beautiful this time too. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

 

[sedate]

Do you rinse between applications? I am trying to determine if I have a cal/mag deficiency or if I am burning the leaves because I am not washing the safer off in between applications.

Agricultural insecticides are designed to provide a window of insecticidal action/protection and then breakdown before the plant is consumed. So no, don't wash it off.

You can treat the plant every 48 hours with Safer's stuff and you won't suffer any ill effects (the smoker or the plant) - I've used that stuff prodigiously across like 15 different strains and NEVER had any problems with anything from Safer.

I did see somewhere that Chimera recommended washing the solution off in between applications.

I don't know what that is, but if any part of the instruction says "rinse between applications" don't spray that shit on your herb plants.

Too many other excellent choices available - especially with 2nd or 3rd generation pytheriods widely available in so many different applicators.

So, 1) it's prolly the cal-mag, and 2) what predators are you dealing with?

 

[MoppinSauce]

Thanks Sedate. Cal mag is now in my mix. I didn't wash the safer off but they still look like hell. I think it just may be the spider mites causing it. Someone suggested azamax/azatrol so I might try that, but it's not cheap by any means. Apparently makes the mites think they are full so they starve themselves. Sounds logical enough. I also got some more safer soap, today I should be applying my 4th treatment, but I don't see many mites left. Last week at this time I had small webs so I am moving in the right direction! I think I may wait for lights out and apply regardless, or, Neem perhaps?Chimera is some dude from holland that is featured in HT and the Jorge Cervantes books.

Thanks again for any insight.

 

[sedate]

Gas the fucks

I think I may wait for lights out and apply regardless

Always wait for lights out. No matter what you are spraying.

I think it just may be the spider mites causing it.

Yea that would be it. Mites are the fucking *worst* - and indoor growhouses have *perfect* conditions for them.

And no matter how many you kill - one fucking viable egg in the grow room somewhere and a bit of time . . . .

If they look that bad, you might want to dump them and start over in a meticulously cleaned, bleached room.

Anyway - if you're dealing with an entreched infection, dump the sprays man - that won't get you where you need to be - you can foliar all you want but the plants - especially ones that beginning to flower - have *way* to many nooks and crannies for eggs to hide in.

Someone suggested azamax/azatrol so I might try that, but it's not cheap by any means.

Apparently makes the mites think they are full so they starve themselves. Sounds logical enough.

Haven't used azamax but like I said - I don't like foliars for mite control - they just don't have the punch. And honestly - mite control products from the cannabis-foods companies are generally pretty worthless.

Anyway, by the time the mites reach economically damaging levels - if you see webs and leaves with the white spots and fucking layers of eggs inside of webs and shit - foliar sprays really aren't going to give you the kind of coverage or the penetration to end infestions like these.

You need to gas the little fucks.

First - start with the nuclear weapon:

http://www.amazon.com/Pyrethrum-Tot...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1278952013&sr=8-1

And two follow-up strikes, exactly five days (this is critical, you won't end the infestation with a single treatment of anything less than bifenthrin) apart:

http://www.amazon.com/Doktor-Doom-T...2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1278952078&sr=1-2

Here on out - don't take chances - set one off every month.

:fixed:

And before you say "but I don't want that on my plants" - pyrethrins breakdown *very* quickly, and are completely safe for mammialian consumption.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/pyrethrins.pdf

 

[MoppinSauce]

You know I did some additional research and am now pretty sure it was the Neem oil that I started with(before Safer spray) that caused my burn. I woulda never thought that neem could do that, but when used at too high a concentration *without* rinsing after 24hrs it seems to burn some of the ladies. My burns look similar to others I saw from Neem online. Lesson learned, if applying Neem at full strength per label you may see some burn if you don't rinse. I'm no pro at the mites, but that seems to be the concensus.

I've been spraying with minimum of 4 hrs dry time before sun rise, preferably sunset to allow for the full 12 hrs of drying.

The problem with dumping em is that some are almost done some and some are at least a few weeks out, my veg room is infested, clones, everything...just a mess. The strains...just some great ones, many of the current TGA line up, Trainwreck, SK1....just beauties, some of my better work, would break my heart to scrap them! I do know what you saying tho. I saw my buddy get totally wiped out last summer by the mites and it wasn't pretty. I at least have a handle on the situation, kind of at least. His infestation looked like the pic in Jorge Cervantes book that Jorge said was the "worst mite infestation I have ever seen". It was scary how quickly they took over and he had to scrap the whole thing. Sad really.

I just went to my local and picked up a 16 oz of Azamax. It's systemic and you apply with water and it's supposed to take care of the problem. I need to do some more research before I apply it, but we'll see what happens. I did see that they also sold the bug bombs at the local, but I am not ready to go there just yet as from what I understand the Azamax is the answer. My concern would be residual on my fruits if I were to bomb at anytime other than veg, or, at most a couple weeks in to fruiting. Is that possible? I guess a little a little shrapnel from the bomb isn't so bad after I have already blasted them(well, the leaves anyway) with high doses of neem and safer. Also, people use those hot shot pest strips with good success, but those could kill a small child! I say no go on the pest strips, maybe the bombs, but no strips!

Time for my mite friends to hopefully meet their doom in the form of Azamax. I hope to come back here to say :fixed:

 

[l0g1c4l]

Reading stories of the borg are always heart breaking...good luck bro!

 

[Calijoe]

Just use serenade that's the best and don't bug me by foxfarm for buggies

 

[Sirius]

I just switched from Safer Insect Killer to a product I am in love with now called Take Down Garden Spray... All it is is Pyrithrins and canola oil (wetting agent).. completely organic and simple just how i like it... with addition to a bomb here and there nothing stands a chance... for addition protection i have been using a little azatrol in my rez...

(White Fire ~ Fire OG Dom)

i like how it leaves the leaves nice and shiny...

the reason i switched from safer was because, yes it is phototoxic! For mites... i have good success applying floramite six weeks before harvest.

 

[Sirius]

Time for my mite friends to hopefully meet their doom in the form of Azamax. I hope to come back here to say :fixed:

To be honest, Azamax and azatrol are great as antifeedant or repellant.. but they wont necessarily fix your problem. You need to bomb and cross your fingers dude. right when you harvest, just chop down the whole plant and strip all the fan leaves off outside because they are INFESTED... then, hang the whole plant upside down... keep in mind all of the mites will migrate towards the top of the plant or where there is the most moisture.. about 5-6 hours later check the plant and i will bet most of them will have collected on the stem where you chopped! wipe the fuckers off and dispose... your buds should be mite free if you have been sort of attentive.. hope this helps.

 

[sedate]

To be honest, Azamax and azatrol are great as antifeedant or repellant.. but they wont necessarily fix your problem. You need to bomb

^^^^ That. +1.