installing an electrical outlet?

[zipflip]

i have this 30amp breaker in my breaker panel that isnt bein utilized and im curious how one woudl go bout riggin it up and wat i would need.
wat im dealing with is i got 2 baseboard style electric heaters in my basement which havent worked for years.
nor do i really have any desire nor need to fix them and run them.
now they are both on 1 breaker alone which is a 30 amp breaker.
easiest route possible in utilizing that line in runnin it to an outlet wired into my grow room/closet.
i was cruious beings the wall thermostat controller box deal, lol, is on wall in the adjoining room, granted i'd have to go thru the wall, but its only 4 feet from my grow. would i possibly be able to splice directly into the wires goin into that thermostat thus extending it to an outlet wired in to my grow room ?
or are there really not the right wires to go off of to do this way?
i also figure i could keep it stealth this way keepin it lookin like the heaters are still wired to that particular breaker , only instead of power goin back to the heaters themselves it would be spliced into a line going to an outlet in my grow room via feeding wires thru wallas completely keepin them hidden.

just tryin to figure out a way to utilis ethat mondo 30 amp breaker thats not being used without it able to be traced with the naked eye back to my grow if , say an electrician had to come in or wat have you, for another reason...

ideas etc welcome and appreciated. im gonna try somethin to use that breaker for my grow one way or another, only i dont wanan fry my as in the process LOL

Thanks!

 

[zipflip]

right on!. tahts exactkly wat i meant when describing wat i wanted to do wit the thermostat deal.
just basicaly leavin it in on the wall only disconnect it completely and liek you said , close the circuit eliminating the thermo controller.
i would be cool jumpin it right off from the heater itself, only teh thermo controller is only but a mere few feet form my flower room to it would be perfect to fish the line thru the wall to the grow room.
are there any particular thigs to keep in mind othe rthan the obvious no brainer things like cut teh power off first before monkey'n wit the heater, or, no sticking screwdrivers into outlets LOL....
but realy you dont know how stoked this makes me now. even tho im runnin all my gear on one 15amp breaker all on its own other than a hallway lite on that breaker and was gonna put my 400 im riggin up on a diff one, when now i'll be able to do both flower as well as my veg all on one 30amp breaker now.
wat kind wire shoud i be usin to jump right off the thermo controller via closing the circuit as described above^^?
idk but somethin just doesnt seem like it'd be safe doin it this way tho, vs tapping into the line before the heater register itslef, by basically just cuttin the heater out an going from there....
i'll have to take it all apart tomorrow and have look see and see wta im workin with first before i go snippin wires etc...

thanks for the reply velvet. i appreciate it!

 

[zipflip]

sounds good, man.
im a finish up my renovations im doing atm and then after thats all said an done i'll take a day out and redo all my wiring and running chords etc. righ now they fine only they a huge mess. my dang ballast chord is liek a small tow rope and same wit both my fans and other hos ballast and all 10-15 feet in length, not to mention the length of extension chords runnin cross the basement form one place to my grow spot....
having an actual outlet in my room on its own breaker would just be perfetc for my situation , really.
thansk for the help .

 

[4u2sm0ke]

hey zip...be sure when useing cords they are large enough for the 30 amp..is this the only power oing into the room? if so ya can get a stacked 30 AMP which would give ya two seperate brakers..not sure if ya know how ya wire from the breaker to the room...I seee ya have help with a heater..have ya got the 30 amp wire connected in the panel? ill check back later..need to go check my shed..take care and be safe

:passingjoint:

 

[InvisibleM]

There may not be a ground at the thermostat, and no neutral either. Most timers would need a neutral and you definitely need a ground for your equipment...

 

[zipflip]

hey zip...be sure when useing cords they are large enough for the 30 amp

ur talkin correct guage size, right? idk as of yet wat guage is needed for 30 amp. im just now starting on this after havin it on my todo list for some time now lol.

..is this the only power oing into the room? if so ya can get a stacked 30 AMP which would give ya two seperate brakers.

not sure wta you mean but there are 2 electric baseboard style heaters that havent worked for bout 100years lol, and few months back i had to flip a breaker that clicked on me once and i figured i'd map out my breaker box and see wta all went where yada yada, and found that i got a 30 amp breaker taht has only the 2 electric heaters on it which havent worked forever so i finger , hey. perfect for my grow if i can tap it some how. cuz i been stringin ext chords to date yet. and it bugs me , somethin fierce. lol
i just thought wat a stealthy way of disguising a power feed into my whoel grow an all vs ext chords :-), that is if im able to harness the power of that whole line by simply tapping into it at the thermostat, im so within a range where i could easily fish a line from behind the therm thru the wall and into my room.
but i have absolutely no flippin idea where to begin for starters. i have never toyed with home wiring before. im not intimidated by it, just i need to gain the know how to do it.
thas where you come in now 4u. LOL

not sure if ya know how ya wire from the breaker to the room...I seee ya have help with a heater..have ya got the 30 amp wire connected in the panel?

again im not sure i understand wat ya mean , man. lol . im clueless when it comes to this sorta thing.
all i know is taht when i flip said breaker to off i checked every single outlet and light and appliance etc to see if anythig elese was on it and nothing, its just the two heaters. and i have no idea how its ran form the breaker to the heaters either, lol.
i just wanna tap into it at the thermostat somehow and im boyt sure theres a way to do so., no?
but fi you meant by a 30 amp connected in the panel by meaning is it actually hooked up and all good to go if the heaters did work... then yeah, its all wired and ready to go just gotta tap it at the thermostat some how if possible..
instead of "this old house" i got "hack this house" :ROFL

There may not be a ground at the thermostat, and no neutral either. Most timers would need a neutral and you definitely need a ground for your equipment...

i know and understand wat ground means and is but the "neutral" gets me ,? what is the neutral? is that for the third prong on most all grow equipment chords/plugs? is there anyway a person can set up a ground and neutral if need be then?
i know how to wire stereo systems in cars and establish grounds etc there, but not homes.

thanks for helpin me out guys.

PS: another main reason i wanan do it thi sway at the thermostat is incase i ever have to have electrician into loo at the breaker box or wat have you, then this way he dont see a line and wonder "hey wats this one for" and ....
this summer im having a new furnace and central air installed so i'd liek to keep the in house wire hacks/mods for my grow a as low key/stealth as possible.
kinda liek how alot of us disguise things as grow cabs liek dressers, and pc towers etc etc..
its also peace of mind knowing things are all incognito.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

hello again zip....if the heaters havent worked then the wires run from the pannel to the heaters..just remove the Heaters and install a remodel box for outlet at this location..you can lay the remodel box sideways..and if ya ever have to reintall the heater..piece a cake..take out outlet and install heater...The thermastat wont carry the power ya need..mosy have a voltage reg..and dont use but a few watts to opperate..ya need the heater wires..Also i need o know what volts the wires are..120/240? can be found on the 30 AMP breaker or the heater where ya conectors are..Heres what i know an hope ithelps yaunderstand a bit more..

Electricity is quite lazy. It needs a complete path from source to load and back to source. It takes the easiest route- whether 120 or 240V.

Actually 120V is wrong because it is really +120V and -120V. Neutral is 0V and is the same as ground.

So in +120V or -120V line, electricity flows to 0V along the easiest path which is the neutral or ground (hopefully the neutral or your going to get a shock). If the neutral is not connected properly, the electricity will flow through the ground (which is also 0V). The neutral connection provides an easy connection for electricity to flow back to the supply. The ground connection back to the supply requires the electricity to do work. However, even when there is a good neutral connection, electricity will still prefer two connections back to the supply over one. That is why even a healthy neutral connection can give a shock if an electrical device is ungrounded (the electicity will travel through the neutral AND through a person back to the supply because two paths back to the supply are better than one.

On a 240V system, electricity flows from +120V to the load and back to -120V to the supply. No neutral is used but the same shock hazard exists on an ungrounded device. In this case both +120V and -120V will prefer to travel to 0V ground as it is an easier path (it will also give you a larger shock and is more dangerous)!!....


take care and be safe :passingjoint:

 

[zipflip]

just remove the Heaters and install a remodel box for outlet at this location..you can lay the remodel box sideways..

jus disconnect wires goin to heater in the wall and just reconect them wires to a new outlet , right?
the remodel box is same as outlet/gangbox, no?
but why the sideways thing?

and upon checkin breaker panel again i noticed its not a 30 amp. its 20amp. only its one swith but is connected to 2 breakers .
here i took a pic. of the reaker itself. so wat do i call this. two 20's or a 40 or one 20...amp?
lol

lamens terms 4u. its me zip. LOL
jp

thanks for lendin me a hand here .

 

[Dr.stickerdick]

No offense but your rendtion of neutral and ground plus pos. and neg are wrong.

 

[zipflip]

huh?

 

[convex]

That's a 2 pole 20 - a 220V circuit.

While I understand your line of thinking for stealth, tapping into unknown circuitry could have consequences. Without tracing out the line and mapping the full circuit what you propose is dangerous, Lord knows what you may feed/backfeed without knowing exactly how the circuit has been run.

You have at your disposal 2 20 amp breakers (you can remove the clip so they act independently). Your SAFEST route would be to disconnect and remove the heater feeds at the panel and run two 12/2 lines @ 20A each to your room: or a 3/12 into your room then branch to 2 individual circuits.

Cheers

 

[zipflip]

see, this exactly why i stay away form electrical in the home. lol
i literally have no idea how to do this or even if it possible. just i came up with an idea and was wodering if it doable, which it is but not the way i wanted to do.
but really thee no point in me doin anything other than wat i got goin now then, really.
granted i'll have an outlet in my room vs ext chords but i aint gon go thru al the hassle if i cant even understand teh terminology even.
i just dont like the idea of someone ever comin in and doin repairs electrical and hapenn to wonder wat thsi certain breaker is for and end up tracing it back to said grow room. hence the reason for wantin to leave heater and thermo installed on walls only disconect them and jsut run the lines feedin them into and outlet which would be extended and fished thru the walls to the grow, leaving teh impression tehre a heater on that line that just doesnt work as it has been for the past decade or better..
oh well.

 

[convex]

Simply label the breaker "attic" or "garage" or some such thing.

Honestly, if you have electrical problems in your house to the extent of requiring an electrician, I am sure you would take time to camouflage any tell tale signs before calling him.

You are worried about an electrician tracing circuits - then by extension I would be worried about the electrician trying to troubleshoot the derelict heaters too.

Cheers

 

[zipflip]

You have at your disposal 2 20 amp breakers (you can remove the clip so they act independently). Your SAFEST route would be to disconnect and remove the heater feeds at the panel and run two 12/2 lines @ 20A each to your room: or a 3/12 into your room then branch to 2 individual circuits.

Cheers

well, upon my further reading and watchin online vids on breaker changing and installation etc etc i think/feel cool wit attemptin the whole breaker installation thing.
but liek you said above, i have them already at my disposal and a 20amp is truly wat i expect would be plenty for my setup, with watts to spare even.
the only thing i havin trouble with understanding is this whole 120/220 240 .... bit.
you said its a2pole 220volt
and by removing said pin seperatn the lines into two seperate on 12/2 wire from the breaker to my outlet in my space, this is giving wat volts then? 120-220 110
lol
im just lost in this whole voltage language bit is all..

but if its as simple as you said, just removin the lines from the existing breakers and installing two seperate 12/2 lines then i think i may be able to manage something, now i think more bout it.
i actually come up wit another idea for runnin the line etc and yet disguising it.
im a take an existing outlet in teh adjoining room to my grow space, and im a disconnect it form teh breaker/line its on and hook it to the breaker im usin for my grow. and just split it to a second outlet right behind it on ther side the wall, which woudl be my grow.
really i'd only need one 20amp line. and that even more than needed even wit possible future upgrades in lghting if maybe too.
who knwos wat this summer's projects will render come fall again in time for startin up again :-)