Interesting Paper On Vpd And Flushing

crimsonecho · Dec 11, 2018

MIMedGrower said:
Call it what you want. But in gardening the term for what pot growers call flushing is leaching. And many things will cause the plant to fade.

It’s pretty much the same effect to the plant. Underfeed to harvest a deficient plant. (Faded) or run a lot of water through the pot which washes nutrients out of the medium and messes up the cation exchange which can lock up the roots. (Flushed and faded)

And I agree proper feeding is the only answer.

Faded plant is not a deficient plant, deficiency is different than senescense and what does exactly running a lot of water do? How does it effect cation exchange capacity of peat?

Well anyway i think the main confusion stems from the one term being used interchangeably to describe 2 different concepts.

One is flushing, which is, again, running copious amounts of water thru the medium in the hopes of getting the remaining nutrients from the soil/mix.

Other one is fading, which is basically senescence. This is just letting the plant finish without giving any nutrients thus forcing it to use whats left inside.

Two are completely different from one another but flushing is just a common name used for both. Its incorrect. You’re not flushing anything out, not out of the plant and not very much from the soil itself.

And these two phenomena arent necessarilly correlated.

3 balls · Dec 11, 2018

I need a dumb guy translation! Is my water only in the same (to run off) volume for the last week good?

UncleRomulus · Dec 11, 2018

Ya I’m running chemys mostly. I think the organic folk don’t gotta worry about it. sort of have to abide by hydro rules to an extent. I go organic when I can. Especially for boosters cause i do feel gross if I can’t get at least 90 percent of those salts out. Builds up and you are adding 800ppm but your runoff is 5 bazillion ppm.

greencraft said:
I have to agree not overfeeding is the key, I guess the term flushing can be misleading
to some . If your running bottled or powdered nutes it is generally a good idea to go with plain water
at the end of the cycle at least in my garden.

UncleRomulus · Dec 11, 2018

I’m often good at providing dumb guy answers because I have to dumb down the info I intake for myself anyways brother man

3 balls said:
I need a dumb guy translation! Is my water only in the same (to run off) volume for the last week good?

MidwestToker · Dec 11, 2018

UncleRomulus said:
Ya I’m running chemys mostly. I think the organic folk don’t gotta worry about it. sort of have to abide by hydro rules to an extent. I go organic when I can. Especially for boosters cause i do feel gross if I can’t get at least 90 percent of those salts out. Builds up and you are adding 800ppm but your runoff is 5 bazillion ppm.

But to me 800 ppm is too much to start with. Full flower I'm only at 600 ppm with most veg feeds around 400 ppm. Now if I was blasting 60+ wsf with co2 , I could see 800+ ppm of nutrients.
Many variables from gardens to gardens to expect a single point or two of a bigger equation, not to mention the many ways that can be used to remedy those situation.

UncleRomulus · Dec 11, 2018

800 was just an example.. but it depends what strain you are growing big time. The pink kush I have wants more nutes as a seedling than the blueberry wants during flower

MidwestToker said:
But to me 800 ppm is too much to start with. Full flower I'm only at 600 ppm with most veg feeds around 400 ppm. Now if I was blasting 60+ wsf with co2 , I could see 800+ ppm of nutrients.
Many variables from gardens to gardens to expect a single point or two of a bigger equation, not to mention the many ways that can be used to remedy those situation.

1diesel1 · Dec 11, 2018

3 balls said:
I need a dumb guy translation! Is my water only in the same (to run off) volume for the last week good?

Remember the K.I.S.S. Method bro, keeps me sain to a point.

UncleRomulus · Dec 11, 2018

Just so we are clear I’m not defending “flushing” here at all and I agree with what your saying. What I do would be leaching I’m pretty sure. Just a little runoff. Not blasting 15 gallons of water down my drain for no reason.

MIMedGrower · Dec 11, 2018

CrimsonEcho said:
Faded plant is not a deficient plant, deficiency is different than senescense and what does exactly running a lot of water do? How does it effect cation exchange capacity of peat?

Well anyway i think the main confusion stems from the one term being used interchangeably to describe 2 different concepts.

One is flushing, which is, again, running copious amounts of water thru the medium in the hopes of getting the remaining nutrients from the soil/mix.

Other one is fading, which is basically senescence. This is just letting the plant finish without giving any nutrients thus forcing it to use whats left inside.

Two are completely different from one another but flushing is just a common name used for both. Its incorrect. You’re not flushing anything out, not out of the plant and not very much from the soil itself.

And these two phenomena arent necessarilly correlated.

Wow take it easy there. ;-)

I don’t do it but running ton of water through a pot of potting soil mix absolutely washes out the nutrients.

And I didn’t say it messes up the soils exchange capacity it messes up the present exchange by removing all the elements that were being attracted to the roots.

And most growers and the old grow books mean last two weeks of water only when they say “start the flush”.

Clearing out nutes with as much water as it takes to read on a ppm meter is called leaching.

And what you call senescence in a controlled grow I call starving the plant.

I have done side by sides every which way on this and tapering nutes to the plants needs always gives the most yield and potency and flavor if the plants were not overfed.

Of course yellowing them doesn’t help if they were already overfed either. In my experience leaching an overfed plant and then resuming proper feed to the end or the last one or two waterings is the best results too.

crimsonecho · Dec 11, 2018

MIMedGrower said:
Wow take it easy there. ;-)

I don’t do it but running ton of water through a pot of potting soil mix absolutely washes out the nutrients.

And I didn’t say it messes up the soils exchange capacity it messes up the present exchange by removing all the elements that were being attracted to the roots.

And most growers and the old grow books mean last two weeks of water only when they say “start the flush”.

Clearing out nutes with as much water as it takes to read on a ppm meter is called leaching.

And what you call senescence in a controlled grow I call starving the plant.

I have done side by sides every which way on this and tapering nutes to the plants needs always gives the most yield and potency and flavor if the plants were not overfed.

Of course yellowing them doesn’t help if they were already overfed either. In my experience leaching an overfed plant and then resuming proper feed to the end or the last one or two waterings is the best results too.

Leaching strips anions from the soil. Cations are there with an ionic bound and plant knows how to strip them. Also your microherd dies and leaves behind rotting corpses which releases hydrogen ions which releases those cations from the soil or mix.

Spaghnum and peat moss has higher cec than all soils out there. So there are lots of nutrients waiting to become available.

So all in all not a very good way to strip nutrients from the soil imo unless you’re using some chemical that breaks those bonds and replaces those cations in the soil.

3 balls · Dec 11, 2018

MIMedGrower · Dec 11, 2018

CrimsonEcho said:
Leaching strips anions from the soil. Cations are there with an ionic bound and plant knows how to strip them. Also your microherd dies and leaves behind rotting corpses which releases hydrogen ions which releases those cations from the soil or mix.

Spaghnum and peat moss has higher cec than all soils out there. So there are lots of nutrients waiting to become available.

So all in all not a very good way to strip nutrients from the soil imo unless you’re using some chemical that breaks those bonds and replaces those cations in the soil.

You can just use light nutes. Salts attract salts. Or in my case well water.

And I said too much water disrupts things.

I’m not sure what you are defending here.

UncleRomulus · Dec 11, 2018

I think right now we are just a bunch of stoners saying almost the same things but we think that we are arguing.:eyepiece:

crimsonecho · Dec 11, 2018

MIMedGrower said:
You can just use light nutes. Salts attract salts. Or in my case well water.

And I said too much water disrupts things.

I’m not sure what you are defending here.

I’m not sure what you are defending actually. How does water distrupts cec? I’m really asking. Not a botanist here.

Well anyway, i made my point to the ones, who would be interested in knowing what my reasoning is, when i say flushing with copious amounts of water is just a waste of water.

3 balls · Dec 11, 2018

Not to start another VPD debate, but did anyone that's actually capable of understanding that report happen to get a sense that following the VPD chart is any more or any less beneficial than previously discussed?

MIMedGrower · Dec 11, 2018

CrimsonEcho said:
I’m not sure what you are defending actually. How does water distrupts cec? I’m really asking. Not a botanist here.

Well anyway, i made my point to the ones, who would be interested in knowing what my reasoning is, when i say flushing with copious amounts of water is just a waste of water.

It’s not a waste of water if it is needed to eliminate excess fertilizer. Leaching is just a tool to correct a mistake.

But when it’s done it’s important to put back in a complete nute dose to put back in the balance of nutrients.

Otherwise the plant and soil exchange will be disrupted. That is what I was trying to say. It will surely be out of balance after running a lot of water through.

I try to do what the plants tell me. When the soil is truly dry enough for water the lower leaves start to droop. When the leaves lose their luster and seem thin and paler they want fertilizer. When they are dark and the tips yellow or they twist or droop they want their roots washed out. So I give fresh water first and meter the runoff to see if the ph and ec are ok. Then keep “flushing” lol until I see clearer runoff and then it’s time to feed a medium to light dose of complete grow nutes.

I am a chronic light feeder so I never need more than an extra gallon or so to get the medium back on track but I have had to when I badly overfed in the past.

Anyway. I am saying use whatever technique works for the situation we are in. I always think the answers lie in the middle of most arguments.

UncleRomulus · Dec 12, 2018

3 balls said:
Not to start another VPD debate, but did anyone that's actually capable of understanding that report happen to get a sense that following the VPD chart is any more or any less beneficial than previously discussed?

Overall moral of the story. No need to pound water through your medium ifn ya try and never give em too much of the shit you give em in the first gol dang place. These dude mangs are debating essentially how much run off.. tiny bit or slightly more than I tiny bit. Just fade.. get all faded bro

1diesel1 · Dec 12, 2018

UncleRomulus said:
I think right now we are just a bunch of stoners saying almost the same things but we think that we are arguing.:eyepiece:

Now that’s funny!! Lol

MIMedGrower · Dec 12, 2018

UncleRomulus said:
I think right now we are just a bunch of stoners saying almost the same things but we think that we are arguing.:eyepiece:

No we’re not! Wait. Yes we are! Wait...

MIMedGrower · Dec 16, 2018

greencraft said:
I have to agree not overfeeding is the key, I guess the term flushing can be misleading
to some . If your running bottled or powdered nutes it is generally a good idea to go with plain water
at the end of the cycle at least in my garden.

Sorry I missed this response. I give water the last time or two if they obviously don’t need anything. And if I overfed and am still worried I will do it longer as needed.

Interesting Paper On Vpd And Flushing

Interesting Paper On Vpd And Flushing

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

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UncleRomulus

UncleRomulus

MidwestToker

UncleRomulus

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MIMedGrower

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

3 balls

MIMedGrower

UncleRomulus

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

3 balls

MIMedGrower

UncleRomulus

1diesel1

MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

Interesting Paper On Vpd And Flushing

Interesting Paper On Vpd And Flushing

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

3 balls

UncleRomulus

UncleRomulus

MidwestToker

UncleRomulus

1diesel1

UncleRomulus

MIMedGrower

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

3 balls

MIMedGrower

UncleRomulus

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote

3 balls

MIMedGrower

UncleRomulus

1diesel1

MIMedGrower

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