I’m playin’ with ya. I have a vast vocabulary and countless, framed English degrees up in my study. (I’m kidding) I just prefer to express myself in my native tongue.. hillbilly lol. I also speak French fluently but who cares right? If people think your smart they will only expect more from you :smoking:

CrimsonEcho said:

I can express myself in my native tongue so much better. This is my second language, i do what i can. :D



Hahahaha. Trust me, name creates a big hype, its actually so basic when you get the meaning :D

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OldManRiver said:

That's pretty much what Monster cables tries to tell ya about their HDMI cables. Despite it being unmeasurable and theoretically impossible. But "true connoisseurs" buy them.

I apparently am not, nor have I ever smoked with, a true connoisseur. ;-)

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When I blind tested water only for 2 week weed vs fed to the last watering but tapered down to the plants needs not one of us “ connoisseur” smokers picked either weed with any consistency.

The dispensary I worked with back then tested the thc and it was higher with the fed clone but only by 1.5%.

Too many variables to make that conclusion in my opinion.

We did this with 3 known cuttings run 3 times.

Absolutely no conclusive evidence either way with a 6 day hang dry and a 2 week jar cure.

But the yield was higher on the fed to the end plant. The other plant faded out some and finished a few days earlier as well.

MIMedGrower said:

When I blind tested water only for 2 week weed vs fed to the last watering but tapered down to the plants needs not one of us “ connoisseur” smokers picked either weed with any consistency.

The dispensary I worked with back then tested the thc and it was higher with the fed clone but only by 1.5%.

Too many variables to make that conclusion in my opinion.

We did this with 3 known cuttings run 3 times.

Absolutely no conclusive evidence either way with a 6 day hang dry and a 2 week jar cure.

But the yield was higher on the fed to the end plant. The other plant faded out some and finished a few days earlier as well.

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You're going to ruin a good argument if you keep introducing facts and data. ;-)

Makes all the sense in the world that yield and THC are higher when the plant is fed.

OldManRiver said:

You're going to ruin a good argument if you keep introducing facts and data. ;-)

Makes all the sense in the world that yield and THC are higher when the plant is fed.

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Man I hate those data introducing growers. They ruin everything!

MIMedGrower said:

Man I hate those data introducing growers. They ruin everything!

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One of the exciting ramifications for me of legalization will be the ag schools starting to do some serious research. In five, maybe ten years, we're gonna know so much more.

CrimsonEcho said:

You call your stuff and processes what you like and i’ll speak my mind and say, the term should be fade not flush. So that when you’re talking about an actual flush, such as running x times of water thru the medium, people don’t confuse it with the last weeks of growth when chloropyll breaks down and generally the processes of plant metabolism slows down, and vice versa.
Being a stoner has nothing to do with it. You can be a stoner and use the correct semantic and syntagmatic structure when communicating with each other. It’s a little effort at first but you’ll get use to it.

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I don’t think there is confusion tho. There is a more technical term for running x times water thru medium, it’s leaching , no? Idk , I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers. There used to be another guy on here that would always say “flushing is for toilets “ but later said he gave only pure water the last two weeks ??!! Most people in the cannabis world in North America refer to withholding fertigation during the final stages of cannabis ripening as flushing. When i hear someone discredit its value and say they essentially do what most call flushing I just assume their a rabble rouser trying to start an argument idk. I’m sorry if I offended you.
I do it the last two weeks or so( strain dependent), in coco. I usually water to 10-15% runoff daily anyhow so my “flush” really isn’t any different just no added nutes to the water. If I want to I can take my runoff/leachate down from 600 to 60-100ppm in a day by running x amount of water thru the medium. By chop it’s 50- (my water is 20-40ppm). If you do that on the first day of “flush” then the plant has nothing but it’s reserves of mobile nutrients to cannabilize/survive for the duration of flowering is my take.
I wonder if that study used an easily leached medium, how much and what they were feeding, how much runoff if any, the level of salt buildup in the medium, the conditions of the room, strain, if their leachate was measured and used to determine duration/amounts of water etc. I most definitely find that study interesting and I accept its conclusion. But I also know that me, as a seasoned smoker, can tell the difference. Idk the mechanism but I’d love to know. Maybe lack of nitrogen lessening chlorophyll production? Lack of nutrients altogether while the plant is still actively growing new tissue. Honestly Idk. I’ll keep doing it tho. Cheers mate. Happy growing

OldManRiver said:

That's pretty much what Monster cables tries to tell ya about their HDMI cables. Despite it being unmeasurable and theoretically impossible. But "true connoisseurs" buy them.

I apparently am not, nor have I ever smoked with, a true connoisseur. ;-)

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Ok. Lol. It’s not just me. Not sure why you haven’t noticed a difference. I’ve been doing this a really long time idk maybe it comes with time haha. Maybe I’m too picky

OldManRiver said:

One of the exciting ramifications for me of legalization will be the ag schools starting to do some serious research. In five, maybe ten years, we're gonna know so much more.

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Why not do your own research? Let your tastebuds be your guide. No need to wait for someone else

And fading is already a widely used term to describe the plant changing color near harvest. Not just yellowing/ lightening in color but people also use it to describe going purple or black, red pink etc. And that can happen regardless of withholding nutes or not. I feel like that’s just creating even more of the confusion yall were talking about trying to avoid? Why reinvent the wheel?

MIMedGrower said:

When I blind tested water only for 2 week weed vs fed to the last watering but tapered down to the plants needs not one of us “ connoisseur” smokers picked either weed with any consistency.

The dispensary I worked with back then tested the thc and it was higher with the fed clone but only by 1.5%.

Too many variables to make that conclusion in my opinion.

We did this with 3 known cuttings run 3 times.

Absolutely no conclusive evidence either way with a 6 day hang dry and a 2 week jar cure.

But the yield was higher on the fed to the end plant. The other plant faded out some and finished a few days earlier as well.

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I like a little longer slower dry 14-17 days ,makes for a smoother more flavorful smoke. I used to quick dry it in six days too but once I tried the longer with a good two week cure also I never looked back.
The results of your testing contradict the results of that university study. That’s interesting....

Was you referring to me Pharmhand.i fertilize every fortnight(outdoors) and drink in between..so it gets its last feed a fortnight before i pull it then give it a drink once ,twice ,three times before i pull em out..sometimes its about 7-10 days as sometimes you dont know exactly when they are ready..

Agree with the longer cure..

PharmHand said:

I like a little longer slower dry 14-17 days ,makes for a smoother more flavorful smoke. I used to quick dry it in six days too but once I tried the longer with a good two week cure also I never looked back.
The results of your testing contradict the results of that university study. That’s interesting....

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If you can taste a difference I believe the plant was overfed.

I have since slowed down my drying process but when I was testing that is how long the buds were taking to dry enough for jars.

Also the 2 weeks was only for the test. I cure my headstash to at least 6 weeks. I think 6-8 weeks may be perfect for many strains.

The rest goes to patients much sooner than that. Still get flavor compliments all the time.

I commented before that “flushing” for two weeks was described to me by pretty large black market growers many years ago as a way to make their pumped up (read overfed for yield) crop taste better for sooner sale. Eliminated the grassy taste by “fading” the plants artificially.

My plants may turn purple and yellow from aging but they are not thin and faded yellow. I harvest them as healthy as possible and let them all go 10 weeks plus.

The faded yellow is from starving a plant. Indoors we have more control.

I am always trying to improve my results. Longer drying is more important with some strains than others. Nothing I do is on a schedule. Everything to the individual plant/flower needs.

Also using bloom booster ratio nutes yellows and ends plants lives prematurely. My best results are feeding grow ratio but tapered to the plants need to the end.

It is already proven the plants don’t change their needs much for nutrients through their life as previously thought.

That’s why the new one parts work so well.

Plus the president of dyna grow already admitted he only made the bloom bottle due to popular demand and plants don’t need it. The market of uneducated pot growers back then did not know better and he made it for profit just like the other nute companies.

Search dyna grow on the dude grows show for He interview and his test results.

How many people still use the term Strain, when the actual term should be Cultivar.

MidwestToker said:

How many people still use the term Strain, when the actual term should be Cultivar.

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You are correct. When will we call the incorrectly labeled trichomes resin glands?

Should we go on? ;-)

This thread has become so repetitive. To each his own, you can do whatever you like. Please stop presenting anectodal reports as scientific facts, they barely constitute as “data” and please don’t defend mistakes by giving examples of other mistakes. Thats is just sad.

I’ll write this one more time for my benefit. Flushing is the name, given to a process which involves running copious amounts of water thru the medium. Just like flushing a toilet. The expected effect is to strip free ions from the mix. This can be achived. I’m not opposing to this. I’m opposing to the practise of overfertilizing and then expecting that running X times of water will make everything allright.

First of all, when you saturate the mix with fertilizers, those ions bond with the medium itself. The cations that is. The cations, which are the positively charged ions, bond with the medium, which is negatively charged. The negatively charged anions however, is being repelled by the medium itself and phosphate is just so reactive that it bonds with everything and becomes unsoluble.

Now for the purpose of stripping anions, running copious amounts of water can be used and in the process some percentage of cations will be stripped too and will be replaced by hydrogen ions or any other positively charged ions. But this is not a big percentage, its just not feasible. Also should i mention most of the plant fertilizers are made up of cations for this reason. So that they cannot be stripped easily with water.

The base saturation of a mix is made up of cations that have created a bond with the medium and also with the organic material in the mix, that are needed for growth by the plant. At lower ph levels, the base saturation will also decrease by percentage because mostly aluminium and hydrogen ions will be there readily bind with the mix. We usually go with 6.5-7.0 ph levels. Now this is not acidic so the base saturation would be high. That means, most of the ions that medium is holding, is in fact nutrient ions with a positive charge like calcium, magnesium, potasium etc. Most of these are there to stay with strong ionic bonds.

There is also a special kind of cations called exchangeable cations. These are cations that have bonded with the medium with a weak ionic bond, that keeps them there but plant can trade in hydrogen ions to strip them from the soil.

This high CEC is what keeps humus and any organically rich soil, fertile and rich in nutrients. These types of soils are found in the most humid environments like forests, marshes etc. They’re under constant moisture and rain.

If one needs or wants to strip the medium of all nutrients. Using only water for this process is wasteful imo. The natural leaching of elements from the soil is a real concern. Outside, the rain strips ions from the soil and leaches them deeper and deeper into the soil. So by that logic, its understandable to think that water itself is pretty effective at this stripping action. The overlooked part is outside, most soils have between 10 to 40 CEC value while peat has as high as 200 and rain is actually acidic in most occasions. The water forms carbonic acid with co2 and this process releases hydrogen ions. If you want a true flushing of the medium you will need to use an ionic solution that could replace these exchangeable cations with hydrogen ions for example. The soils ph will decrease too.

These data influences my decisions and views.

As far as going only water at the last 2 weeks. Thats just to let the plant strip whatever is left in the mix and take no more. Everything you see when you look at a plant was once ions. Thats life. It takes up these ions and turns it into cells and resin and chloropyll and million other things. Since cannabis is not a very picky eater, its better to provide only as needed and let it complete its lifespan on a limited diet. Especially if you’re growing for medicinal use and not really fixated on the yields but favor quality instead.

Lets look at the fading and deficiency. I don’t know why this causes such a controversy. Don’t really know why you guys are having hard time understanding me but deficiency is when a plant wants to eat but the medium can’t provide, either because of growers error or by choice.

Senescence or fading is when plant starts to shut down. Literally, it gets ready for dying. This has no direct correlation with flushing, its a plant response but it can be induced prematurely by flushing, creating deficiencies, stressing the plant, like water stress or photoperiod stress or nutrient stress. Or it will happen naturally on its own at the end of its life cycle. All my remarks are concerned with the natural route. When plant slows down its metabolism, there is no need to keep pumping nutrients in, whatevers left in the medium should be more than enough for 1-2 weeks.

Maybe i should make it clear, it should be clear already but seems not, i don’t think you should grow deficient plants. That fading at the end is just letting it die by not providing a life support for it. Thats all. You can keep them going a bit more and get a bit much but you’ll be pumping nutrients in a nearly done plant, and since these are medicinal plants, i wouldn’t want to smoke that.

To sum up, i don’t think we should call the last 2 weeks flushing as we’re not flushing anything, this is just a personal preference. I don’t think real flushing is a good practise unless done right after an overfertilization with nitrate maybe. The difference between deficiency and senescence should be clear to all at this point, seems not. I can truly tell the difference with a faded plant and a green one while vaping. Only true flushing, is not overfeeding at the first place.

I’m done with this thread. Unwatched and everything. To each his own. By the way, i wouldn’t actually take this research too seriously, seeing much of the data and the methodology has been found faulty.

Bountiful harvests to all.

But they have been calling water only the last two weeks flushing for the 35 years I have known pot growers.

And what you keep describing is actually already a term in horticulture. Leaching. Pot books call running 3x water through flushing too. Why repeat mis labeling?

So much is mis named in our industry. Trichomes are resin glands for instance. Pistils is incorrect too.

You are arguing about labels that you are deciding for yourself @CrimsonEcho

And you keep saying that there “should” be enough nutrients to last 2 weeks. Not true in my system. I have tested extensively. My plants with my method need nutes to ripen properly.

You writing another book of your opinion does not change others experience.

Sorry but you come off very combative. We are having a discussion. You don’t want to hear any other perspective it seems.

MIMedGrower said:

But they have been calling water only the last two weeks flushing for the 35 years I have known pot growers.

And what you keep describing is actually already a term in horticulture. Leaching. Pot books call running 3x water through flushing too. Why repeat mis labeling?

So much is mis named in our industry. Trichomes are resin glands for instance. Pistils is incorrect too.

You are arguing about labels that you are deciding for yourself @CrimsonEcho

And you keep saying that there “should” be enough nutrients to last 2 weeks. Not true in my system. I have tested extensively. My plants with my method need nutes to ripen properly.

You writing another book of your opinion does not change others experience.

Sorry but you come off very combative. We are having a discussion. You don’t want to hear any other perspective it seems.

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No intention of changing anyones mind. You can call it leaching. Its a good term. Much better than flushing. And your comment about the nutes and the last 2 weeks, i favor quality and you favor whatever you like. As i said this is my reasoning. And to each his own.

CrimsonEcho said:

No intention of changing anyones mind. You can call it leaching. Its a good term. Much better than flushing. And your comment about the nutes and the last 2 weeks, i favor quality and you favor whatever you like. As i said this is my reasoning. And to each his own.

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There you go again. Maybe you shouldn’t put others product down before you try it.

There is no need for insults.

MIMedGrower said:

There you go again. Maybe you shouldn’t put others product down before you try it.

There is no need for insults.

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There is no insult man. I can tell the difference with vaping. Thats my anectodal report. The faded plants come so much more flavourful and smooth. Not with combustion. I cant tell shit with combustion anymore it just tastes like ash.