Is it more effective to use an mh for veg and an hps for flower

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Kreation

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I'm currently working on seting up a 1k hid room and I am wondering what the benefits of running a metal halide during vegatative and then switching to a high pressure sodium bulb for flowering vs say just vegging with an hps or trying to get a better blue spectrally balanced hps. Would there be alot of benefits to vegging with an mh then switching to a red spectrally enhanced hps during flowering instead of running the more dual spectrum bulb all around, thanks in advance, Kreation
 
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Vic123

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Hi Kreation !

It's all about color spectrum. If you haven't, I highly recommend you read up on it. Very important, basic info that you need to know. PAR's a the key. For that reason alone, CFL's have proven to be better during veg over MH's.

Gotta do your homework.
 
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dank.frank

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well, the answer to this question is two fold. Both lights do serve their own purpose.

It is well known and understood that the blue spectrum is what is available to plants during early spring in nature. So that is one reason for using MH during veg...it is more natural. It is also known that the light spectrum (5500-6500k) helps keep plants internodes tighter and less elongated, thus causing more bud sites within a smaller given distance.

The "warm" spectrum or 2300-2700k light spectrum is used to simulate the color of the fall sun. Which is naturally when plants are flowering outdoors. It is well understood that this color of light while causing plants to stretch a bit more than MH, they are much more powerful and can penetrate the plants further, effectively producing larger buds. (look at lumens of a comparable wattage MH to that of a HPS)

Part of the reason for the switch during cycles, is that it is also known that growers "shock" a plant into flowering when switching from one spectrum to the other. This is not a bad thing. The plant responds with a "I'm late, late, late, and need to bloom, I need to mate.." and begins a rapid production of the flowering hormones...thus the reason people say "inducing" flowering. (keep in mind it isn't just the light, the 12/12 cycle is what truly triggers the switch from veg to flowering, however, the plant recognizes the red spectrum and behaves as if it is late fall/harvest time...)

I prefer not to use a dual spectrum. I prefer to use MH during veg, and for the first 3 weeks or so of flowering. This is because I like to keep my plants more on the compact side of things, and as an attempt to help manage and control stretch, I keep the MH on for the weeks in which stretch occurs. I then finish the last 6+/- weeks with a HPS, one for the extra power in lumens, and to tell my plants it is late fall, and time to flower, fill out, and finish up.

I think the main reason people switch is to replicate the color of the actual sun during specific times of the year. If you are interested in a dual-spectrum, then maybe you should look into Ceramic Metal Halide. (CMH)


There are also things that have been never been declared concrete, but it is my understanding that using a 6500k during sexing can attribute to fewer males and more females. I have a list of 5 things that can attribute to a higher female to male ratio. (gathered information from OG days) On this list is 18/6 vs. 24 hours of light and staying in the 6500k range of lighting during the first 3 weeks of a plants life...anyway...like I said, this isn't an overly accepted fact...but it has seemed to work for me, so I tend to follow that list...



hope this answers your question.



dank.Frank
 
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Kreation

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Hey Dank Frank your asnwer is very explanatory and is the kind of knowledge I was looking for. Sticking to MH during the weeks of stretch is also new information to me and makes a lot of sense, I will definitely have to give that a try when I have my setup. My plan was to use a cool tube and find a narrow profile metal halide and then switch to a sunmaster hps, however the people selling the cool tubes may not have been aware of the slim metal halides and suggested I go with a dual spectrum hps, I thought this might be less effective so It's very helpfull to have your input, and I do think I'll stick with my original plan. I don't know a huge amount about ceramic metal halides but I do beleive I read they don't work with digital ballasts and I was planning on running a digi so I only require one ballast for both lamps. I have also read similar stuff about altering the outcome of the sex of your plants, and it does make sense, I almost always grow out my seedlings under flouros, one full spectrum bulb and one 6500k bulb and I usually get good male to female ratios, the lowest ever being 50 percent the highest being 100 percent even with larger numbers, averaging 75 percent, but I was always too lazy to run them on 18/6 and just used 24/0 but I do think blue light, lower temps and less general stress does make a big difference from germination until sexing has ocurred, thanks for the help Frank.

Hey Vic 123, thanks for the input, I have been using compact flourescents for over five years now and have experimented with many many different spectrums and different combinations of spectrums and I do achieve good results with compact flouros but the penetrating value just cannot compare to that of even a 400 watt hid lamp. The most common horticultural cfls are 125 watts and I have used 4 at once before and they still cannot penetrate more then six to 18 inches depending on the canopy density, and the 5000-6500k generating such compact growth that the lower branches cannot recieve any light so it can be quite frustrating, the light intensity just doesn't seem to be able to compare, maybe if they had much larger cfls it would be feasible but to be used in place of a 1000 watt lamp I think the cost would outweigh any possible benefits, they don't have a very long life either, and since they are integrated into the ballast your average 125 watt cfl runs the same cost as the best 1000 watt hid bulbs. However I know cfls can grow some super potent herb and have good horticultural value they just don't seem to be able to achieve yeilds anywhere near what an hid lamp can and suffer in penetrating ability, so I'm keen on going with a higher kevlin metal halide for veg, I'll keep my cfls for moms, clones and seedlings though, they will still have their place in my garden, Thanks Vic.


I beleive I read something by the herbaliser stating he/she used 3000 kelvin and 10000 kelvin hid lamps, I'm not sure if in combination or seprately for different cycles but I was under the impression it was in combo, I tried searching for any grows giving info on this by the herbaliser, but wasn't successful, if you wander by theHerbaliser, your input on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks everyone, Kreation
 
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BuddKlott

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cheers dudes thats some tasty info there, gonna try and mh for the first three weeks and see what i get
 
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British_Hempire

Guest
In short, Mh has more blue in it's spectrum so promotes shorter, bushier plants, using HPS for veg works but the plants will stretch somewhat due to the lack of much blue light. HPS works best for flowering, but some people like to use Mh again for the last 2-3 weeks of flowering to produce a smellier, tastier product. The terpenoids which are responsible for the smell/taste are stimulated by blue light and this is why usign a Mh is the final phase of flowering gives a bit more terpenoids in the end product, resulting in a stronger smelling/tasting result.
 
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dreamweaver

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exactly what i'm doin'

yes Kreation...i's usin' a 1000w mh right now fer veggin' n i'll use it 2-3 weeks into flowerin' to keep stretch to a minimum...then i's switchin' to 1000w hps...lookin' at what the B Hempire said, i just might try the 1000w mh for the last 2 weeks; 'sounds great...thanks BH...d
 
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Kreation

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Awsome info everyone, I'm definitely going to try experimenting with mh during stretch and I will certainly try MH for the last few weeks to enhance the quality of the resin content, really looking forward to getting an HID setup going and seeing what I can achieve and having a good time while I'm at it, Kreation
 
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mato

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I know there's always talk and the whole spectrum argument regarding what is the ideal light in the various growth stages/cycles. However I've finished plants with hps and MH and they were clones, and I tried my best to keep all other aspects of the grow controlled between both crops. The difference in my book is minimal. I feel more importance needs to be paid to the quantity and quality of the lighting more than the spectrum. I'm sure certain spectrums trigger different physical changes and effects in plants, but to say I've noticed a difference between 4x MH compared to 4x HPS 1ks would be an exaggeration. I would say though that I have noticed that plants do veg better under higher Kelvin temp lights. I keep clones/vegging plants at 6500K throughout vegging, and use either MH which I believe are 4800K or 3300K Hps to flower, sometimes I use a combination of both.

Another thing of consideration is from my experience MH bulbs of the same wattage run a bit cooler.
 
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Kreation

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Hey Mato, that's really interesting information. I think I'll have to try doing that as well and see if there really is any difference at all, I have heard similar things before so I am starting to wonder, I'll just have to find out for myself since people say so many different things, thanks for sharing your experience, Kreation
 
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slewfoot

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Using an mh for the last couple weeks sounds interesting, Iknow that keeping the light different distances/angles from the plant makes a dif. The closer the bud the bigger, but by doing that you could sacrifice some smell and taste. This must be related to using the mh at the end.
 
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kush51

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Iv used both dulespeck all the way through and had top results. That said I've just started a again and have returned to MH for veg and dulespeck for flowering. I can only agree with the comments above I get shorter node space and a more compact plant with the MH for first three weeks of verging pulse for first week or two of flowering it dose stop stretching.. Good info.
 
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