Is one 80 watt cfl and three 23 watt cfl's on one plant too much? Or too little??

[Fishiesmallz]

The 80 watt cfl has roughly 11000 lumens. It is 5000k, 13 colors, and is hanging directly abovc my girl at a distance of about 5 inches. The three 23 watt cfl's all together have roughly 4000 lumen. Each light represent the points of an equilateral triangle and are surrounding her slightly lower than the midway point 4 inches away, at an angle so not only does it give every piece of the plant an equal spread of light from the 23 watt bulbs in specific but so that they also slightly reflect the light from the 80 watt hanging directly over head. Every light has a 8 inch reflector at the base of it. The plant also has a reflector aiming upward surrounding the trunk in the same way it would the cords.

Now onto the stank hoe herself. ( or hopefully soon to be)

I went to a buddies house where there happens to be an atrium in the middle of the house. problem was is that only one window overhead didn't have some purple black light film or something over it like the rest of them did. Long story short the plant didn't get enough light and was allowed to stretch dangerously long in fact if i remember correctly 10 and a half inches or so. Age estimated at 1 month at this time third set of leaves and extremely small at that. I immediately went shopping and got some materials for transplant. I curled the stem around in a circle and buried it like a spiral staircase rises along with some b vites and some rooting hormone powder. the soil was my own design of vermiculite, perlite, sphagnum moss top soil bat guano and some diluted molasses drizzled in while mixing the concoction. Watered with bottles water with a miniscule pinch of epsom salts.

Over all height after transplant 1 inch.

Now two months and 1 weeks have passed. It initially went through a two week shock from transplant and other related stresses. Such as a ph imbalance at 4 weeks (ph 3.3-3.5 bad I know), magnesium and potassium deficiencies also having undergone two more transplants each as easygoing as the next with the last one around 2 weeks ago.
She is now at a height of around 9 inches. She also has 5 colas from a botched fim technique/ lst done by yours truly to reduce height of the plant.The top cola having the most foliage with 11 nodes all with internodal growth. She and is nice lush darkish green color and happily lives in a 5 gallon pot. she is given every other watering a little molasses and bat guano. She seems to love it. The pot is in a 30 inch by 70 inch by 100 inch closet with the walls painted white. No small grow box or anything just white walls and reflectors.. Every other day she gets a nice breeze blown directly onto her from small industrial fan. Anyone she comes into contact with treats her very nicely and talks sweetly to her for optimal cannabis karma.

I appreciate any help I can get and as this is only my second grow, I wanted to be thorough with the information I give as I have no photos, I only see the girl every 2 to 4 days, and am also 5000 miles away at the moment. When I am back in her vicinity I plant to flower by adding another 250 watts of 2700k.

Mad love. Nug Life.

 

[1971]

dude, people run 1000w lights over their plants, you are nowhere close to running too much light.

 

[BlueBlood]

You sound like you're doing fine for a rookie, you're really thinking things out, and obviously reading up. That's awesome. So props to you.

The answer is no, you can practically lay CFL's right on the plant with no issue. There is no way you're going to photosaturate with CFLs, its not going to happen, so you can relax.

I would suggest three things.

1) If you're going to add another 250 watts, ditch the CFLs and get yourself a 400 watt HPS.
2) Improve your ventilation, it sounds like you have her sealed in there, and its no good. Atmosphere is everything.
3) Quit showing your pot plant to people, no matter how much you trust them.

Also, give up on the lumens, they mean almost nothing.

 

[Fishiesmallz]

@ 1971
Yes people run 1000 watt lights over their plants but in many cases very little actually photosynthetic light is being put out. Thank you for your input though. I'm just not big on HID unless I figure im poppin out more than 6 plants. Also Watts don't mean anything to me. It's just how much my buddy will be paying to the electric companies.

@ Blueblood. Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. Been messing with plants since I was 2 just never indoor and never with cannabis. I'm also a botany major and am awaiting acceptance into the local master gardening certification program.

Actually I thought the same thing about cfls. The thing is that it did become photo-saturated but i also had it on 24/0. Coupled with it already stressing probably wasnt all that good for her. Im talkin whole plant yellowing. It almost immediately stopped as I pulled the lights 2 more inches away and set it on 22/0 and have since been making sure it is slowly tapered down so that no more stress was brought upon it while getting it ready and stabilized for flowering.

A few more things. This is not MY plant. It is a friends plant. I know most people say this but it's actually true. I went over to his house saw it and immediately offered to save it. Other than me, There is only 4 people who know about it. Those people would be the people living in the that house. This is actually the only place ive talked about whats going on outside of his house walls. As far as who he shows it to is his ordeal. I more of behind the curtains helping it live and teaching my buddy about the art although like mentioned above I am definitely still a rookie.
I actually don't feel like tossing the money to buy and my buddy doesnt want to have the whole heat issue with using an hps ( hes a little paranoid). I also prefer cfls at the moment because I like the idea of putting them where I want them and space isnt an issue so it works out alright. All the lights arent just your normal run off the mill home depot or lowes. I ordered them at a lighting warehouse from a catalog. the lights were picked based on the intensity of the wavelengths optimal for cannabis growth.
There is a small fan for air circulation on at almost all times.The industrial fan is for root and stalk strengthening.
Temps surrounding plant around 82 during photo period and 70 during dark.
ph 6.4-6.8

Also I forgot to mention Ive been told she is of the bagseed variety allbeit some fairly decent nugs nontheless (although has not showed sex yet, she doesnt show characteristics indicative to a male) Will be sexing her right when I get back in town.

So now my question is why shy away from lumen output? isn't that the measure of the intensity of the lights? coupled with the correct wavelengths I figured I was doin alright with that thought process. Enlighten me plz sir.

Btw I really appreciate any feedback and even just the fact that you two answered. I know it says ive never posted but Ive been a member for several years and have read pretty much everything on this site and many others.

Mad Love. Nug Life.

 

[BlueBlood]

@ 1971
The thing is that it did become photo-saturated but i also had it on 24/0...
...whole plant yellowing. It almost immediately stopped as I pulled the lights 2 more inches away and set it on 22/0 and have since been making sure it is slowly tapered down so that no more stress was brought upon it while getting it ready and stabilized for flowering.

I really don't think they did, I'm thinking you had either a heat differential or maybe a humidity issue which caused some kind of nutrient thing. CFLs don't have the radiant energy to photosaturate a fern, much less a pot plant. When you bleach chloroplasts, the growing tips will turn sort of faded white right nearest the light. It won't be even close to yellow, and it won't be all over the plant.

A few more things. This is not MY plant. It is a friends plant. I know most people say this but it's actually true.

Oh yeah, suuuure. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

I actually don't feel like tossing the money to buy and my buddy doesnt want to have the whole heat issue with using an hps.

Flourescents produce more BTUs/watt than HIDs. Its a fact, usually by about .5 BTU/watt, more if you use a remote ballast and keep it outside of the growth chamber. They're just generally used in 25 watt increments or so, instead of 2 and 4 hundred watt increments, so its a different ballgame and it seems like they produce less.

The lights were picked based on the intensity of the wavelengths optimal for cannabis growth.

Flos can dial in on the action spectrum a lot more precisely, its true. However, they don't have nearly the radiant energy, and therefore the penetrating power of HIDs. Also, a 400 can be had for about 80 bucks if you shop around, less if you craigslist a used one or something. You're probably spending at least that much on all those fancy flos.

There is a small fan for air circulation on at almost all times.The industrial fan is for root and stalk strengthening.

Is there an intake somewhere bringing in fresh C02?

So now my question is why shy away from lumen output? isn't that the measure of the intensity of the lights? coupled with the correct wavelengths I figured I was doin alright with that thought process.

You're doing great. Lumens are a photopic spectrum, which is more or less the exact opposite of the action spectrum for photosynthesis.

Lumens are for eyes. Eyes like green. Plants don't. :)

 

[Fishiesmallz]

Lol to clarify. I have my own girls. This one is his. I would never normally save such a sad plant. but my buddy obviously was at a lack of resources and knowledge to properly maintain the girl.

Heat was always regulated and humidity has for the most part never changed. But I agree with you on that it not being too much light. Although it was being bleached white at certain points.
Thank you for asking I completely forgot to mention. I made a water bottle with a small millimeter hole in the top. the water bottle is filled with water, chopped cherries and pears( wanted to feed the yeast fructose not glucose although i have no idea if it matters) and some yeast. This stays in the room that the closet is located in as the door to the room stays shut. during flower it will be either rotated in and out of the closet periodically or be left in the closet whichever my girl responds better too.

So lets say my 80 Watt cfl is dialed into almost exactly the optimum photosynthetical light spectrum. IF it had no lumen output at all wouldnt that mean no light would be present? I thought lumens were in essence the measure of the amount of photons being transmitted by said diode or filament or whatever.

Ive personally seen a badass led grow with supplemental cfls that produced some of the frostiest stankiest buds ive ever seen. This being said I'm more inclined to using lower wattage lower lumen output but better spectrum lights. That just me though. And I shopped around for an hps setup a year or so back and the spectrums they boasted just werent exactly optimal for chlorophyll absorption for the prices I was finding. I also like buying new so I don't have to deal with light degradation.

Thank you for your insight Blueblood.

Mad Love. Nug Life.

 

[BlueBlood]

So lets say my 80 Watt cfl is dialed into almost exactly the optimum photosynthetical light spectrum. IF it had no lumen output at all wouldnt that mean no light would be present? I thought lumens were in essence the measure of the amount of photons being transmitted by said diode or filament or whatever.

Think of it this way. If I put you in a room positively drenched in photons of ultraviolet light, you still couldn't see a damn thing. The same principle follows for plants except they 'see' different spectrums. Incandescent lights have, what would seem to be, amazing lumen per watt ratios. If you put a plant under 24 hours of incandescent light, it might as well be 24 hours of night. The reason is that lumens aren't the number of photons, its perceived brightness to the human eye, which is most sensitive to the color green. You can take the same photon flux, which is the number of photons reaching a spot, make the light source more green, and the lumens will increase. Chlorophyll will absorb most anything but green because they are green. They are green because they reflect green, and therefore do not absorb green.

So far as CFLs go, its true, you can grow good weed with CFLs. No doubt. They do have better spectrums, however they have less irradiance. So if you think of the light as a stream of photons, the photons will be less dense, in a way, and therefore they carry less energy to a given area. CFLs will grow buds that are more fluffy, and they won't penetrate as deep into the canopy as an HID.

HIDs are horribly inefficient, but ultimately, they get more Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR wattage) to more chloroplasts (since they penetrate deeper), and therefore produce more photosynthesis. Also keep in mind that in the end, they do this with fewer BTUs of heat per watt added to the grow space.

Its just something to keep in mind. I'm not going to try and talk you out of using CFLs if you're bent on it, but that's how it works. If a person is only using like 100 watts, then its a pretty insignificant difference to switch to HIDs, especially since you can't really get good horticultural lights until you get to 400 watts.

 

[ttystikk]

I grew a christmas tree shaped plant in a tripod of shoplights. Tasty, but fluffy... and light. And warm.

There is way not enough plant for all the theory being tossed around up in here imho, lol.

Bet I know why it yellowed- between transplant stress, pH shock and not being used to the increase in light levels, it freaked out a bit. Once it gets used to those CFLs, I'm sure you'll be able to all but actually touch the plant with them and she'll love it.

You want a crazy CFL thread? It's Time For McGuyver! CFL Light Arrays

 

[Fishiesmallz]

I saw a plant grown with an incandescent bulb until it toppled over. I couldnt do more than laugh at the kid growing it. He asked for my advice long before hand but refused to throw any many on it. What a waste.

Wow I cannot believe through the research I've done that I didn't realize that lumens were in reference to human vision. Even wiki very bluntly states that.

"The reason is that lumens aren't the number of photons, its perceived brightness to the human eye, which is most sensitive to the color green. You can take the same photon flux, which is the number of photons reaching a spot, make the light source more green, and the lumens will increase."

Thats the only part I had no idea about and it was definitely the most important piece of information ive heard in a month or so. Thank you very much. I see the light.... lol

I wish I could put up a pic right now. Because of the way I LST, I dont let my plants create a canopy because of the fact that I prefer not to use HIDs. If I chose, I could drop/hang a bulb directly into the middle of them without touching any important foliage while having every cola equidistant to the bulb. also my buddy doesn't give a damn about potency. This whole thing is a learning process for him. I mean I literally had to explain chlorophyll to him in the beginning. He's gonna be happy if his plant drops out a g of dry shwag haha. Unlike me im more about overall potency and yield. (I just dont have the time or money to mess around with fullscale growing atm.)

Also with what you said being the case. Then an 180 watt custom LED panel above a single plant without a canopy would also in this particular setup in theory produce an almost equal if not equal yield that an HPS would given that the LED would have (assuming I have a badass LED panel) give off a very large amount of PAR for the wattage used? and because of the no canopy training would be able to hit almost every bit of the plant fairly equally. Now I'm assuming that when we are talking light penetration we are talking during flowering. But are we talking about penetrating through the leaves or more so penetrating through the buds as they form? Also I trim the ladies as I go.

So I was wondering if instead of putting 250 more watts of customish cfls over it. Although I know you said "If a person is only using like 100 watts, then its a pretty insignificant difference to switch to HIDs, especially since you can't really get good horticultural lights until you get to 400 watts." but if im already using 152 watts with more than average PAR than the normal run off the mill bullshit bulbs from the depot or lowes or wherever, then would it still be a good idea to get a low wattage HPS as the main over head and then supplement with the cfls that are already there? for flowering of course. Or maybe I could go with a reputable induction bulb?

Thank you for being patient with me. I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible.

 

[Fishiesmallz]

Thank you for your response tyystikk. Any help is always appreciated.

I agree with you that there isnt very much plant for all the whimsical thinking im puttin out here but I do want to give her as much bright love as possible without causing any sort of over load. Cus I know you can give it too much light. Thats another reason im wary about the use of HIDS with just one plant.

And although all of those stressful things for the lady were spaced out pretty much every two weeks. When you put it together like that.. yeah that prob is what happened. But on the plus side. my buddy wanted to keep it small... and well all of that nonsense stunted the hellllll out of her.

Last I saw her she was quite acclimated to her cfl arrangement and by the time I put her on 12/12 will have gone through about 3 weeks of nice lush vegetative growth. Since I am actually an active member now instead of just a knowledge whore I will def revive this thread with a few pics when i get back in town if anyone is interested with keeping up with the grow here to see how she turns out.

Thank you for the link as well.

Mad Love. Nug Life.

 

[BlueBlood]

Then an 180 watt custom LED panel above a single plant without a canopy would also in this particular setup in theory produce an almost equal if not equal yield that an HPS would given that the LED would have (assuming I have a badass LED panel) give off a very large amount of PAR for the wattage used?

I really couldn't tell you for sure, I haven't really followed LED technology. I suspect you'd do better with LEDs than with flos, but I seriously doubt you'd beat an HID per watt.

and because of the no canopy training would be able to hit almost every bit of the plant fairly equally.

Real quick, that's still a canopy, your just keeping it even, which is good.

are we talking about penetrating through the leaves or more so penetrating through the buds as they form?

Both

So I was wondering if instead of putting 250 more watts of customish cfls over it. Although I know you said "If a person is only using like 100 watts, then its a pretty insignificant difference to switch to HIDs, especially since you can't really get good horticultural lights until you get to 400 watts." but if im already using 152 watts with more than average PAR than the normal run off the mill bullshit bulbs from the depot or lowes or wherever, then would it still be a good idea to get a low wattage HPS as the main over head and then supplement with the cfls that are already there?

Absolutely, a 400w HPS will slay 350w of any flos. Make sure to get a good horticultural bulb, they can be twice as good as a shitty warehouse sodium. I'd recommend Plantastars for the 400 watt range.

Or maybe I could go with a reputable induction bulb?

Inductions are just glorified flos.

Thank you for being patient with me. I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible.

Patient nothing, I'm happy to help :) Keep it up!

 

[BlueBlood]

There is way not enough plant for all the theory being tossed around up in here imho, lol.

What the hell is the point of growing dope if you can't smoke it and spew bizarre, nonsensical theories? O_o


What if, like, we're all just, like, atoms in a giant molecule, and the universe is just a molecule in another universe of universes?

Dude......Whoa....I just blew my own mind. XD

 

[Fishiesmallz]

I was thinkin canopy as in a canopy similar to a monkeypod tree but with more foliage underneath than a monkeypod tree has. I just have it spread out so that none of the colas are even close to touching. But as I said earlier Ive been out of town for 6 days now with another 5 to go so ive left the fate of the plant during this time completely to the owner who still has a less than acceptable knowledge to maintain the plant. Had to leave him with specific instructions that like a 5 year old could follow haha. So when I get back im assuming she will have almost doubled in size.

And as far as the hps bulb I was think like a small 150 watt horticultural bulb. I know a place I can get one with good PAR. I wouldnt have a problem with wattage. But my buddy does so I don't think he wants to use a high overall wattage. And I believe since Im the one teaching him the basics and I prefer cflesque bulbs that he has ended up fancying those over others as well.

Id rather be an atom in a trichome. Because scalewise. I would have all the thc I needed :cool: or directly in the center of a drop of isohash. that would be dandy too.

 

[Fishiesmallz]

For those who were interested. finally came back with a few pictures. I ended up putting 3 more 125 watt cfls 2700k for flowering. I havent been keeping track of her age but i believe shes in week 6 by the looks of her. Prob chop her in about 3 weeks maybe more we shall see depending on her gens. Plus I know cfls take a little longer. And I apologize about the quality of the pictures. as they were taken with my phone.

 

[Fishiesmallz]

or maybe not how do I post pics? I'm not exactly computer savvy.