Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

Glow · Jan 12, 2019

hyzerflip said:
"Fertilizer contains salts, which draw moisture out of plants. When you apply excess fertilizer to plants, the result is yellow or brown discoloration and root damage."

You'd require extremely highly saline soil to create that kind of negative osmosis and so what you are saying is leaves burn because of this? And also what you see in the leaves is occurring in the leaves at a cellular level and not the roots because under massive osmotic stress the plant can't uptake water and nutrient and this means no cooling in the leaves through transpiration. Other things also occur when a plant is stressed which results in leaf burning but again this is all occurring in the leaves - albeit part of a chain reaction of events.

MIMedGrower · Jan 12, 2019

FatManatee said:
In my experiments, I have not seen that yield is decreased by cutting nutrients (in soil). Quite the contrary, I've got increased yields by flushing. I do raise my soil EC really high, before I start the flush, so there's nutrients stored in the media.

That makes sense. But it doesnt prove flushing. It only proves you need to leach your pots of too much nutrients.

You are clogging your roots with too much. Or you would see less yield from withholding nutrients while the buds swell.

Better results are to be found with a lower ec run longer.

Bulldog420 · Jan 13, 2019

FatManatee said:
In my experiments, I have not seen that yield is decreased by cutting nutrients (in soil). Quite the contrary, I've got increased yields by flushing. I do raise my soil EC really high, before I start the flush, so there's nutrients stored in the media.

I think you might be getting that harvest bump from the extra nutes you pushed. Have you tried to continue to feed and see what happens? I have and in my garden it seemed to help a lot. Less bug and mildew pressure, and slightly higher yields that come from density. I first was taught this by my agronomist, then backed by several other agronomist and is becoming the industry standard IMO. Or at least best practices.

I really like to concentrate on my micros all the way up to harvest for clean, mildew and pest free buds. Concentrate on those PPMs of Cu and Mn all the way to harvest. Don't let your shield down.

FatManatee · Jan 13, 2019

Bulldog420 said:
I think you might be getting that harvest bump from the extra nutes you pushed. Have you tried to continue to feed and see what happens? I have and in my garden it seemed to help a lot. Less bug and mildew pressure, and slightly higher yields that come from density. I first was taught this by my agronomist, then backed by several other agronomist and is becoming the industry standard IMO. Or at least best practices.

I really like to concentrate on my micros all the way up to harvest for clean, mildew and pest free buds. Concentrate on those PPMs of Cu and Mn all the way to harvest. Don't let your shield down.

I've done runs with nutrients til the very end, done 1, 2 & 3 week flushes, now settling on flushing for 3 weeks. I'm running semi organic, doing my best to keep the micro heard alive. The plants also store nutrients in leaves, and dead root mass. So I try to focus on using up all these stored nutrients in the last weeks.

So, even though I'm "flushing", I am still feeding the plants.

Bannacis · Jan 18, 2019

Glow said:
Okay well others have run the analysis for you. The answer is flushing has no or very minimal effect on the plant nutrient status. This has been concluded; however, you choose to deny the irrefutable conclusion.[/QUOTe
Check history..Not all science is truth. Truth is whats in front of you... Just like Engineers, It works on paper...But not in the field.

Ina · Jan 18, 2019

Glow said:
I am one of those old school growers - I was out in the bush probably before you were born.

Hello!:)I read your opinions and they are interesting to me.But I am really interested to see your flowers.Any pics?May be I've missed them.....I guess you have nice,big garden/s?Indoor ,outdoor?Soil,hidro or what do you prefer personally as a gardener? Do you flush?!:)By the way what exactly do you all mean by flushing?One time with lots of water and run off,this is what I understand by "flushing",one or two times in the end or in some point if needed....And the other thing is just watering with plain water for few weeks,isn't it?Or they are both considered as flushing?

Glow · Jan 18, 2019

Ina said:
Hello!:)I read your opinions and they are interesting to me.But I am really interested to see your flowers.Any pics?May be I've missed them.....I guess you have nice,big garden/s?Indoor ,outdoor?Soil,hidro or what do you prefer personally as a gardener? Do you flush?!:)By the way what exactly do you all mean by flushing?One time with lots of water and run off,this is what I understand by "flushing",one or two times in the end or in some point if needed....And the other thing is just watering with plain water for few weeks,isn't it?Or they are both considered as flushing?

Flushing is just the term people use for describing running water for 10 - 14 or even more days in some cases so to call it running water only or flushing sort of depends on opinion - i.e. some believe they can flush inorganic nutrients out of the tissue when they can't and this is scientifically proven (albeit the flat earthers choose to scream fowl). :) Haze genetics going at the moment about 5 weeks out (haze genetics take a long long time to finish but the wait is well worth it). Stacking nicely and will keep stacking for a while yet. Oh and now I've shown you mine you need to show me yours yes :)

Ina · Jan 18, 2019

Thank you for the pic!I just needed to see you actually grow plants first.I have to admit it was a little bit sarcastic and i'm sorry about that!:)I wont ask you "are you gonna flush these "haha;)They are really nice!

Glow · Jan 18, 2019

Ina said:
Thank you for the pic!I just needed to see you actually grow plants first.I have to admit it was a little bit sarcastic and i'm sorry about that!:)I wont ask you "are you gonna flush these "haha;)They are really nice!

Yep there is always one teenager on a forum who wants to start a pissing match.

Bannacis · Jan 19, 2019

TimeLine said:
good discussion aggressive as it might be

what would be the number one reason a person would want to flush?

I would assume it would be for taste perceived reasons

The only 2 things I have encountered was flame retardant smoke, and a chemical taste what I would call nitrogen tasting

IDK I learned at a young age most of the crap on shelves is junk and can all be achieved through nature
pesticides and fungicides though are a tough one most people don't wanna hear about the long grind and just want you to dump stuff on the lawn while they are at work and put doggy signs up to free up liability from the dink dog next door they secretly wish would eat it

most people just wanna dump shart all over the lawns, plants where as most runs off into the same systems the drink water eventually from..oh yeah they don't drink that water they use bottled water

then those same people make it so I can't use plastic bags cuz they wanna show lil X how to save the world

well anyways I can't wait to see how beneficial nematodes work and it is awesome I can legally explore options and don't have to dump shart on my crap and then waste water to rinse the shart out of my plantand then wonder if that is worth it

I like that cure...happy mixed with angry rant back to happy

it is mine all mine!

actually the the chem taste or nitrogen tasting, and sometime you see or hear a little crackle or spark like noise when lighting bud...it is usually magnesium that is left over. mostly from peeps flushing but adding molasses. magnesium is flammable. I agree about the shops pushing junk nutrients, it's all about the dollar.

Bannacis · Jan 19, 2019

Glow said:
I'm not angry mate. All good with me. Although I do think it is important and get past myths such as a plant acts like a human and burns fat and then muscle tissue when starved. Humans don't photosynthesize and humans don't have phloem and xylem and so on. And good point on nitrogen tasting. Nitrogen burns nasty and definitely has an acrid taste. Nitrogen is mobile and down regulates so something could go on there if you starved a plant although tissue testing tells us otherwise (N status remains about the same).

I believe it is not nitrogen taste but rather magnesium, cause most peeps add molasses towards end of flower and molasses has mag in it.

Bannacis · Jan 19, 2019

TimeLine said:
yea...the problemis like anything if you ask someone hey this taste a lil like nitrogen please explain means ur @===> is < the mine when its really is not it is just a question

I have tasted it a few times in my life same thing won't burn and taste super sweet makes the tongue a lil tingly even

I like the passion!

magnesium...not nitrogen...from molasses.

Bannacis · Jan 19, 2019

Glow said:
During the night cycle (the Calvin cycle) plants don't photosynthesise (t

I think the original myth may stem from the likes of the old school authors like Rosenthal actually. BTW I am one of those old school growers - I was out in the bush probably before you were born. I too was told the myth and I too believed it and I too once circulated it (which is quite bizarre really because I should have known better). That is the wonderful thing about myths mate. They spread like wild fire because they are taken on as fact and passed on as such and so on. So for example here you are promulgating a myth that flies in the face of all known science. While I don't for a minute believe this myth others who read your info may/will. Then they run off and tell two friends and so on. And yeah the internet has become a place where fake news and myths are amplified rapidly.

I've been growing since late 70's And here you are stating that everybody else is wrong and that others are spreading lies. The myth you refer to as I believe is that flushing removes nutrients from the plant, where in fact it removes it from the soil...not saying 100% but it does.

Glow · Jan 19, 2019

Bannacis said:
I believe it is not nitrogen taste but rather magnesium, cause most peeps add molasses towards end of flower and molasses has mag in it.

Yep pretty silly to flush with molasses really...

Glow · Jan 19, 2019

Bannacis said:
I've been growing since late 70's And here you are stating that everybody else is wrong and that others are spreading lies. The myth you refer to as I believe is that flushing removes nutrients from the plant, where in fact it removes it from the soil...not saying 100% but it does.

Must be a bad batch:-) Where do I say others are all wrong and they are spreading lies? I think you will find I discuss the science. I aren't particularly into opinions (opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one) The myth of flushing which I have made very clear as the myth is that the benefits of flushing have long been argued to be related to the idea that through flushing the plant is forced to use up nutrients that have accumulated in the plant tissue. I've not once commented on removing nutrients from soil which feasibly can be done albeit CEC and bulk density pose some very real issues pertaining to this.

FatManatee · Jan 19, 2019

Glow said:
Yep pretty silly to flush with molasses really...

I disagree. You definitely don't want to flush with molasses in the last week, as it contains nitrogen and potassium on top of magnesium and other trace nutrients. However it's a great way to start a flush, kick your soil bacteria alive, so they can do all the hard work of breaking down stored nutrients in the soil, and make your flush even more effective :)

Glow · Jan 19, 2019

Very high TDN - sort of defeats the argued purpose of flushing doesn't it? Dead right on the molasses feeding microflora. Um but if the bacteria and fungi in the soil are breaking down nutrients and by that I take it you mean turning organic P etc into bioavailable inorganic P etc again isn't that sort of defeating the argued to be benefits of flushing? I.e. you're making nutrients more available for plant uptake by stimulating the microflora.

Glow · Jan 19, 2019

Bannacis said:
magnesium...not nitrogen...from molasses.

Any tissue analysis or any scientific backing for this? From a scientific perspective the macronutrients potassium, calcium, and magnesium, though present in high amounts, don’t affect burning/glowing too strongly and they don't give an off-taste (a perfumer or wine maker might think differently) whereas organically bound nitrogen and free nitrate as well as free and bound phosphates decompose when burnt, resulting to a good part in undesirable products.

FatManatee · Jan 19, 2019

Glow said:
Um but if the bacteria and fungi in the soil are breaking down nutrients and by that I take it you mean turning organic P etc into bioavailable inorganic P etc again isn't that sort of defeating the argued to be benefits of flushing?

In a way you are correct. However the goal is to use up as many nutrients in the soil as possible before harvest. By adding molasses at the beginning of the flush, you increase nutrient uptake, thus the soil will be leeched out quicker.

Glow · Jan 19, 2019

Have you run soil nutrient analysis at all? It would be interesting to see to what degree this occurs. Also it is the plant people consume, not the soil. If nutrients become more bioavailable this happens for a long period of time dependent on the nutrient status of the soil.

Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

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