Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

mittenmedgrow · Jan 18, 2016

Pimp T said:
I heard of people chopping plants and putting them in buckets of water but like I said at the beginning of the thread science is science. No way u can "flush out" chemicals in plants molecules and chemical bonds just dont work like that. @stanklungs

Been preaching this for years most people just don't believe

stanklungs · Jan 19, 2016

Cool I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one lol. And I'm no scientist but science is always changing and we discover new shit by experimenting and trying things that go against the norm. I think of it as a lazy man's flush but some entirely different process might be happening from stressing the plant or what not that has the same result as the ideal flush.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong or the science validates it because it doesn't but try it with one plant and take it or leave it. Worse thing that will come of it is you have to wait 24 more hours before trimming.

All I know is all my buddies thought it was organic after we put it through the joint test, and trust me it was not hehe.

RalloD.Eno · Jan 20, 2016

the point of "flush" which is one of 2 different things depending on who you ask, is to remove excess nutes from the media. the plant isn't flushed just because you run plain water last 2 weeks before harvest or dump 10 gallons of water on a plant at once. that's just to clean the media like i said, the plant still has to use up the rest of the food and start to go yellow before it's "done" according to me. this is where the "flushing of the chemical bonds" and the "chemicals in the plant molecules and enzymes" comes into play.

MushinNoShin · Jan 20, 2016

Flushin may cause the plant to metabolize stored carbohydrates, but like @Pimp T said, your not flushing the actual nutes out (and I'm pretty sure the carbs are mainly stored in the roots).

That being said, I've also noticed that I get better density with a good flush. I don't know why, but it seems to trigger something, like the plants are like "Oh shit! Something's happening! Winter's coming." (Game Of Thrones reference there, lol). I think it is because the internodes aren't able to stretch as much and the plant shifts focus on reproduction. Can't really say for certain, let you know when I finish my Plant Sciences B.S., lol.

Like if you tell me I'm gonna die next week; fuck school, fuck work, fuck all that shit, I'm tryin to get laid. It's just natural, I can't help it. Plant's doin the same thing, lol.

MushinNoShin · Jan 20, 2016

stanklungs said:
Cool I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one lol. And I'm no scientist but science is always changing and we discover new shit by experimenting and trying things that go against the norm. I think of it as a lazy man's flush but some entirely different process might be happening from stressing the plant or what not that has the same result as the ideal flush.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong or the science validates it because it doesn't but try it with one plant and take it or leave it. Worse thing that will come of it is you have to wait 24 more hours before trimming.

All I know is all my buddies thought it was organic after we put it through the joint test, and trust me it was not hehe.

Show me bud that isn't organic ;)

Limonene · Apr 2, 2016

LI grows · Apr 2, 2016

Im in soil and my plants dont seem to use much water after 8 weeks. Ive been flushing but i dont think its doing much.
I like the idea of cutting the harvest and putting it in water I might try that. If they soak up some water maybe at least thell dry slower.

Natural · Apr 2, 2016

LI grows said:
Im in soil and my plants dont seem to use much water after 8 weeks. Ive been flushing but i dont think its doing much.
I like the idea of cutting the harvest and putting it in water I might try that. If they soak up some water maybe at least thell dry slower.

exactly..some plants will drink very little as they mature..but not all. Some plants will fade out even when given nutrients all the way through as well. In dirt this is how I look at it..stay away from over-feeding in general..taper food after peak flower production. Don't waste nutrients but don't allow a plant to starve towards the end.

RalloD.Eno · Apr 4, 2016

so i decided to chop down a bubba last round without flushing it for comparison. also a couple other plants. the bubba was harsher without a flush. we would smoke it and it made us cough, then it would make us wheezy after a few more hits, and after that everyones lungs and throat were so hurty no one wanted to smoke anymore. same for the other 2 strains i chopped without flushing. they had a little more bite to the smoke that triggered a histamine release. the one that was more faded was better, but yeah i'm always gonna be flushing as i was before.

MidwestToker · Apr 4, 2016

If you're plants are using ions for chemical processes you never lose that ion, they are converted by the processes into more complex compounds but the ion is still there in the new compound. Besides o2, H2o, oH+ and H- I've seen no studys that plants release any other elements

MushinNoShin · Apr 6, 2016

Maybe the better question to be asking here is; what is actually causing the harshness that people precieve?

We have basically established that nutrients cannot be "flushed" from the plant. What else is present that could be causing the harshness?

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen or been told "You see the green? That's the nutes that get stored in the leaves..." And I cannot tell you how hard it was to resist the urge of just slapping them, just as an innate reaction. That's just downright disrespectful and inconsiderate to be that ignorant.

Limonene · Apr 6, 2016

MushinNoShin said:
Maybe the better question to be asking here is; what is actually causing the harshness that people precieve?

We have basically established that nutrients cannot be "flushed" from the plant. What else is present that could be causing the harshness?

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen or been told "You see the green? That's the nutes that get stored in the leaves..." And I cannot tell you how hard it was to resist the urge of just slapping them, just as an innate reaction. That's just downright disrespectful and inconsiderate to be that ignorant.

you should have slapped them.

MushinNoShin · Apr 6, 2016

Limonene said:
you should have slapped them.

As sad as it is; that means I would have to slap like at least 80% of the growers I've encountered, lmfao!

It's just refreshing to see people applying some common sense and trying to figure something out by applying known facts/science, without once mentioning "vibes" or "the energy of the universe".

I just got out of the hospital and am on painkillers, I'm ranting again.

Savage Henry · Apr 6, 2016

I'm under the impression that elevated levels of phosphorus, from bloom boosters, causes an unnecessary buildup of said element in flowers, causing harshness of smoke. Some old threads around here discuss it (the myth of high p), there's also an article about it on manic botanix.

Currently running a round where p levels stay under 60ppm. I'll see what the end product is like, several have claimed the flowers burn clean, leaving the much sought after white ash.

All that being said, I still plan on flushing. Call it force of habit.

MidwestToker · Apr 7, 2016

MushinNoShin said:
Maybe the better question to be asking here is; what is actually causing the harshness that people precieve?

We have basically established that nutrients cannot be "flushed" from the plant. What else is present that could be causing the harshness?

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen or been told "You see the green? That's the nutes that get stored in the leaves..." And I cannot tell you how hard it was to resist the urge of just slapping them, just as an innate reaction. That's just downright disrespectful and inconsiderate to be that ignorant.

Then what would they say if you hade a plant strain as my cherry that finishes purple with just a slight green tint in the calyxes ?

MushinNoShin · Apr 7, 2016

Savage Henry said:
I'm under the impression that elevated levels of phosphorus, from bloom boosters, causes an unnecessary buildup of said element in flowers, causing harshness of smoke. Some old threads around here discuss it (the myth of high p), there's also an article about it on manic botanix.

Currently running a round where p levels stay under 60ppm. I'll see what the end product is like, several have claimed the flowers burn clean, leaving the much sought after white ash.

All that being said, I still plan on flushing. Call it force of habit.

I legitimately believe the white ash has more to do with moisture and the dry/cure. IME, anyways.

MidwestToker said:
Then what would they say if you hade a plant strain as my cherry that finishes purple with just a slight green tint in the calyxes ?

I have no idea, probably makeup some sort of pseudo-science that sounds good to them, lol.

It may not be as much of a problem where you guys are from/at, but out here... It's almost the norm, sadly. Everyone "heard from a guy who has been growing for 20 years", okay, no disrepect to that dude's 20 years, but pick-up a book or google some shit and do some real research.

The other day my sister's boyfriend's brother (who is a fkn trimmer, mind you) argued to death with me that if you clone a plant too many times or wrong or something like that, that it mutates and isnt even weed anymore. He heard this from a guy who has been growing for more than 40 years, so obviously knows better than me. Oh, and a sign of this happening is lots of hairs on the bud. Dude was basically trying to tell me that my genetics were mutating based on the fact that the bud was hairier than he was use to.

Okay, the funny part is that it was from seed, I was playing around with some Chem crosses, didn't like this particular pheno and did think it was quite up to par to put my name on, but not bad at all (like below topshelf, but definitely far beyond mid-grade), so I gave it to him for free and then he goes and says some dumb shit lke that. If it isn't even weed anymore, why are you smoking it then? Like wtf?

Ferreal, you guys are going to get me going on this subject, lol.

MushinNoShin · Apr 7, 2016

I just recently placed a large order for 240v Nanoluxs and come to find I actually need 120v for my particular setup, so I do dumb shit too, but I know I do dumb shit and will openly admit when I do dumb shit.

Anyways, I don't know if anyone read in my previous post, but I still flush. Not because I believe I am actually removing anything from the plant or whitening my ash, but because it seems to trigger a ripening response in the plant, IME, anyways.

If I don't start flushing, it seems like they just want to keep growing and growing. I need them to finish at a scheduled time.

MidwestToker · Apr 7, 2016

I have plants that I've been taking clones from clones from clones for 10 years now. Still one of my best producers. The only times I've experienced excess pistol production is when I would Monster crop and would always revert back to normal growth patterns.

MushinNoShin · Apr 7, 2016

MidwestToker said:
I have plants that I've been taking clones from clones from clones for 10 years now. Still one of my best producers. The only times I've experienced excess pistol production is when I would Monster crop and would always revert back to normal growth patterns.

No, fersure. Same here. What dude was saying was just blatantly wrong on so many levels.

MushinNoShin · Apr 7, 2016

Savage Henry said:
I'm under the impression that elevated levels of phosphorus, from bloom boosters, causes an unnecessary buildup of said element in flowers, causing harshness of smoke. Some old threads around here discuss it (the myth of high p), there's also an article about it on manic botanix.

Currently running a round where p levels stay under 60ppm. I'll see what the end product is like, several have claimed the flowers burn clean, leaving the much sought after white ash.

All that being said, I still plan on flushing. Call it force of habit.

I don't believe plants build-up phosphorus in the way you're thinking. I believe they use phosphorus moreso to build new tissue (and for many other things; synthesize proteins, reactions, etc.) and growth/development in general, but don't really store it like that.

Like any P that the plant uptakes would be converted to other things and you would primarily see it in the form of growth, like orthophosphate wouldn't just be chilling in your buds.

So in stands to reason that denser buds (more plant tissue), would have more phosphorus present (in an organic form) and IME, bud density doesn't contribute to harshness. If that makes any sense?

Again, I have personally found that moisture is the largest factor in white ash. Also, if there is a lot of resin, the ash tends to stay black (prevents plant matter from fully combusting?), IME.

Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

Is Pre-harvest Flushing A Myth?

mittenmedgrow

stanklungs

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