Is this too much training?

[GasPlease]

I saw it on YouTube the more root space (pot size and soil porosity) the longer the veg time before flowering with autos.

I agree with this. Soil saturation throughout the pot is important early too. If the roots hit dry spots it can trigger early flower too.

 

[KG1]

Im an old man with no reason to lie. Not here looking for clout or trying to get over on anyone. I try to rough document my grows for better results. Im of the mindset that if im going to put in the time and money I want to get the best results. After those little plants from the first grow I scoured the internet for more info. My results are from Mr canucks gaia green organic living soil method and this video I found after my last grow.

Exactly see his day 17 plants, no chance lol impossible

 

[GasPlease]

I saw it on YouTube the more root space (pot size and soil porosity) the longer the veg time before flowering with autos.

I believe too much stress from any source can trigger flower also.

 

[GasPlease]

Exactly see his day 17 plants, no chance lol impossible

I mean hes not growing the same genetics, setup, nuts, or medium.

 

[GasPlease]

Results may vary.

 

[GasPlease]

Exactly see his day 17 plants, no chance lol impossible

He hasnt done any training either.

 

[GasPlease]

As soon as I bend the plant 90 degrees it starts focusing on producing horizontal branches.It thinks the top is gone and needs new growth to survive. Is the simple explanation. I start this very early. Probably day 10ish. 3rd node is developing and the stem is Virginia Slim thick. Maybe a little smaller. Every time i bend the top of a branch down the plant tries to grow more horizontal. Im in the grow room multiple times a day. Ive been forcing new growth since day 10.

 

[KG1]

I mean hes not growing the same genetics, setup, nuts, or medium.

Grown over a decade and that growth is past biological maximum for 17 days from germination.

The same with your plant and you can see what members here achieve in 17 days for reference.

But if no consequence just pointing out it was a lie....

 

[GasPlease]

But if no consequence just pointing out it was a lie

Thats kinda rude to call someone you dont even know a liar. My plants are on day 25 not 17. Again genetics is a thing. since im here defending myself ill point out the strawberry cheesecake. same conditions and methods. only a few days behind the GMO and its doesnt have near the growth. I dont need to impress anyone. Im here for knowledge and had an actual question about LST.

 

[GasPlease]

About 5 hrs later and shes recovering nicely. Almost pointing back at the lights and growing vertical again.

 

[ChairmanFester]

I eagerly await the first confirmed hermaphrodite purely from Dr. Mengele levels of training.

 

[GasPlease]

I eagerly await the first confirmed hermaphrodite purely from Dr. Mengele levels of training.

Is this more hate or you just being funny about the torture? Ive been pretty gentle with her. No squeezing or rolling the stems. Just gentle bends at the right time and place. And some light defoliation.

 

[GasPlease]

Im excited now. Being called a liar and doing the impossible is kinda like being called a cheater when destroying a FPS lobby. I must be doing something right and cant wait to see the final results.

 

[KG1]

Im excited now. Being called a liar and doing the impossible is kinda like being called a cheater when destroying a FPS lobby. I must be doing something right and cant wait to see the final results.

Exciting for you but not us as we know max growth and to be where he is at day 17 impossible but your not the first to try convince otherwise.

But I have no bone here, your seven day from germ must be very impressive, only shame I've never emulated that or got a plant flipped by week three....

 

[Justlovetogrow]

About 5 hrs later and shes recovering nicely. Almost pointing back at the lights and growing vertical again.

View attachment 2556256

The only problem I see when trained close to the soil is splash back from feeding how do ya water her without drenching the plant? She looks good n healthy though don’t worry bout the naysayers mate u do you fk everyone else

 

[GasPlease]

The only problem I see when trained close to the soil is splash back from feeding how do ya water her without drenching the plant? She looks good n healthy though don’t worry bout the naysayers mate u do you fk everyone else

Thank you. I water by hand using a generic watering can. i took the spreader thing off so it comes out a steady pour. I use one hand to left the leaves up and gently pour under. Rotating the tray doing it in thirds most times.

 

[GasPlease]

Step by step for impossible autoflower results.

Step 1. Prepare the soil.
3 parts gaia green living soil 1 part worm castings.
Pre amended with a 50/50 ratio of gaia green all purpose and power bloom at the recommended dose.
6" diameter and 6" deep center gets a recommended dose of mycorrhizal inoculum mixed in.

Step 2. Germinate the seed.
I float my seeds in a cup of water until they have a tap at least a 1/4". make sure its in a warm and dark place.
Once it has a tap root you need to finish the soil. completely saturate your pot from top to bottom.
Place seed tap down with a touch mykos in the hole and carefully cover with no more than 1/2" of soil.
Add a few drops water on the location being careful not to disturb the seed.
Place a humidity dome over until you see the sprout emerging then remove.

Step 3. Control your environment.
Get the gauges, meters, and equipment you need to keep things in check.
Monitor your Ph, temp, RH, and PPFD.
Try to maintaining optimal VPD and DLI

Step 5. Watering.
Once the sprout emerges let the soil dry back until the pot is light and the top 1" to 1 1/2" is dry.
Use this dry back and guage of when to water the whole life of the plant.
Ive given a 1/2 gal of dechlorinated tap water at 6.2-6.8ph since that first dry back as a sprout.
Every other watering or so Ill give the trays 4-6 cups to absorb from the bottom.
Around week 2 I gave them 1/2 gal of Recharge on the top and 1/2 in the trays.
As the plant gets older I might need to increase the amount of water. The idea is to water everyday or other day.

Step 6. LST and defoliation.
Start as early as the plant lets you.
Keep the branches growing horizontal and evenly spread out.
Remove as little of the leaves as possible.
I usually only remove the leaves on the top of the branches growing towards the center of the canopy.
Any leaves that can be tucked under or behind that new growth needs to be done every day if not multiple times a day.
The goal is for all new growth to have direct exposure to the lights.
Continue LST into the "stretch" using your judgement when enough is enough.

Step 7. Top dress early flower.
Using a mix of 70/30 power bloom to all purpose at the recommended dose. To that ill add an equal amount of worm castings.
The mixture gets spread around the pot evenly and then mixed into the top few inches of the soil by hand.
You then water it in to start the process of breaking that down. Im going to use Recharge to water in. Using the same 1/2 and 1/2 method.

Step 8. Continue watering until harvest.

 

[GasPlease]

Apparently I cant count. step 4 isnt important.

 

[ChairmanFester]

I fed chat this thread and asked it to restate KG1's objections in a more readable and available format, with it's commentary input. I feel like this takes some of the anger from both sides out of it.

1. Time and Energy Limits​

Autoflowers simply don’t have enough time to build that kind of biomass by day 25.

• Autoflowers typically start flowering around day 21–28, but before that, they’re still in early veg with a small root system.
• You can’t produce a wide, low, heavily trained canopy (like that photo) in 3½ weeks — it takes root mass, which takes time and carbohydrate reserves the plant doesn’t have yet.
• Even under perfect light (say 800 PPFD, 20 hours/day), the photosynthetic energy over 25 days caps at a fraction of what a plant needs to fill that container with healthy growth.

---

2. The Growth Curve​

Plant growth is exponential only after the root system matures.

• In the first 2 weeks, autos grow slowly while they’re establishing roots.
• By week 3, they may have 3–5 leaf nodes and a few lateral shoots.
• That “lush bush” look in the photo? That’s usually day 35–40 minimum for an aggressively LST’d autoflower.

---

3. The Soil Mix Myth​

The soil recipe described (Gaia Green + worm castings + mycorrhizae) is fine for organic living soil — but it’s not an instant-growth recipe.

• Dry organic amendments like Gaia Green take 2–4 weeks to mineralize into plant-available nutrients.
• Mycorrhizae help later, once roots are established.
• Recharge helps microbial activity, but it doesn’t magically force accelerated node spacing or biomass.
  So the soil’s full benefit doesn’t even kick in until around the time this person claims to have already achieved miracle growth.

---

4. Light and DLI Reality​

To achieve that canopy by day 25, the plant would need a daily light integral (DLI) equivalent to a commercial CO₂-supplemented grow — around 45–50 mol/day.

• Typical home LEDs give 30–35 mol/day tops.
• Without added CO₂ and exact environmental control, the plant simply cannot convert that much light into tissue that fast.

---

5. LST Time Compression​

The “step 6” training method requires several days of recovery and regrowth after each adjustment.

• Early bending stunts autos temporarily since they don’t have the same hormonal flexibility as photos.
• To achieve a wide, flat canopy like that, you’d need 10–14 days of progressive training, which pushes this into the day 35–40 range again.

---

6. The Photo’s Tells​

The plant in that image:

• Has early pistils (so ~day 30+).
• Has multiple well-developed side branches, each with their own node stacks — impossible before week 5.
• The soil surface shows older dry-back patterns typical of repeated watering, not a 25-day schedule.
  So, either the “day 25” is creative math (like “day 25 since sprout” really meaning day 35–40 since seed drop), or they’re flat-out lying for clout.

---

7. Realistic Expectation​

For a healthy auto:

Stage	Realistic Day Range	Notes
Sprout to true leaves	0–7	Root development dominates
Early veg (establishing structure)	8–20	Limited training possible
Vigorous veg	21–35	LST and canopy building happen here
Flower onset	30–40	First pistils, canopy near full spread
Bulk and resin	40–80	Real growth payoff

That “impossible day 25” plant is just what most growers get around day 38–42 under good conditions.

 

[ChairmanFester]

Now let's take a look at what AI thinks COULD be possible... and please note that I feel it's stupidly optimistic and you'd need a team with degrees, but AI is often pretty literal about the scale and scope of the question, I submit that this is just beyond possible and why we don't depend on AI:

1. Tissue acceleration through cytokinins + gibberellins​

If someone pre-soaked the seed or early sprout in a carefully micro-dosed GA₃ (gibberellic acid) and kinetin cocktail, they could trick the plant’s hormonal balance toward hyper-elongation and branching immediately.

• GA₃ boosts cell division and stem elongation like a rocket booster.
• Cytokinins push lateral shoot formation.
  The result? A plant that stretches and branches like it’s on fast-forward — though normally it’d cause weird internodes and floppy stems.

Combine that with a little triacontanol (from alfalfa or lab-grade extract) and you get the equivalent of the plant drinking espresso shots of growth hormone.

---

2. Artificially enhanced root microbiome​

Imagine the soil loaded with exotic microbial consortia — not just mycorrhizae, but:

• Azospirillum and Azotobacter strains fixing atmospheric nitrogen on-demand.
• Bacillus subtilis and Pseudomonas fluorescens super-charging phosphorus uptake.
• A biofilm seeded with lab-cultured Trichoderma harzianum and silica-solubilizing bacteria.

If someone brewed that up with a molasses-amino acid ferment and dripped it daily, root metabolism would be in overdrive, making nutrients absurdly bioavailable within days instead of weeks.

---

3. Light saturation + CO₂ hyper-enrichment​

Under 1,200–1,500 PPFD full-spectrum LED (with spectrum tuning toward red and far-red for stretch), and ambient CO₂ pushed to 1,200–1,500 ppm, you’re getting factory-grade photosynthetic speed.

• The plant is literally limited only by how fast it can move water through the xylem.
• With perfect VPD (1.2–1.4 kPa), the stomata stay wide open, and transpiration is optimized.

If that’s paired with foliar calcium and silicon sprays to keep cell walls strong, the plant can grow roughly twice as fast as in a normal home tent.

---

4. Pre-charged living soil acting like hydro​

The “living soil” described could be tuned to behave like a semi-hydroponic matrix — meaning constant microbial mineralization and almost no nutrient lag.

• Imagine adding biochar inoculated with enzymes like phosphatase and cellulase.
• Mix in fine basalt dust and amino chelates for iron, magnesium, and zinc.
• Irrigate with a low-EC solution of fulvic acid and seaweed extract daily.

Now the plant’s nutrition is as instant as hydro but still buffered by organics.

---

5. Exotic biostimulants​

A few “gray-market” products exist (mainly from agricultural suppliers overseas) that are essentially concentrated growth regulators for non-food crops.
If someone were to use:

• Brassinosteroids — to boost photosynthetic efficiency and stress tolerance.
• Salicylic acid — for signaling and systemic acquired resistance (allowing nonstop metabolism).
• Humic + fulvic complexes — to supercharge cation exchange and root exudation.

Those together could compress 5 weeks of vegetative expansion into ~25 days if everything else was tuned perfectly.

---

6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones​

Instead of the usual manual bending and recovery cycle, imagine a rig of servo-controlled ties (or weighted springs) applying constant micro-adjustments so the plant never has to “recover.”
Pair that with hormonal manipulation (slightly reduced auxin dominance via foliar cytokinin misting), and you get nonstop lateral growth.

---

7. Photoperiod manipulation hack​

There’s also the “photoperiod confusion trick” — some advanced growers pulse far-red light for a few minutes before and after lights-on/off to shorten the plant’s perception of night length.
That effectively gives an autoflower 22–23 hours of active photosynthesis instead of 20, without light stress.

---

8. Theoretically possible outcome​

Under all that:

• Germination → tap root → seedling by day 3
• Established root zone by day 10
• Massive leaf expansion and LST spread by day 20
• Pre-flower showing at day 25

You could, in theory, hit something that looks like the photo — but it’s basically a Frankenstein operation involving plant hormones, CO₂ systems, and microbiological wizardry.

---

9. The hidden cost​

Even if you pulled that off, the plant would likely:

• Exhaust its metabolism early and yield less overall.
• Be hormonally imbalanced (thin cell walls, weaker resin production).
• Produce flowers that taste off or mature unevenly.

So yeah — theoretically possible only under near-laboratory, CO₂-enriched, hormone-tweaked, microbe-engineered perfection. In real life? Nope.