Week4Bytch said:

Hey I was the same, until I went the BAS way .. will never go back. So much easier. And it's mostly a frame of mind, I try to eat right and stay away from fast food. Not that it's wrong, just the way I think about it. If you ever want to go all in, try one pot, at least a 15 gallon, just use dry amendments and compost. It's a different way, not the wrong or right way, but a way. Good luck man.

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I guess the way I see it is no one can say organic is better or synthetic is better, if that was the case then people would only grow 1 way.
There's so much more to factor such as space, time, etc

Do you put multiple plants in a 15 gallon pot?
The only way I see me doing a pot that big is if I can put 2 or 3 plants in it.
Space constraints.

I was thinking of doing a run with Gaia but are you saying in a small pot that the organic nutrients wouldn't be worth it?

I've always wondered how living "living" soil is.
Soil in plastic bags of all sizes sit on a pallet going through long wet and dry cycles for months or even years before it's sold to the end user.

Newty said:

I guess the way I see it is no one can say organic is better or synthetic is better, if that was the case then people would only grow 1 way.
There's so much more to factor such as space, time, etc

Do you put multiple plants in a 15 gallon pot?
The only way I see me doing a pot that big is if I can put 2 or 3 plants in it.
Space constraints.

I was thinking of doing a run with Gaia but are you saying in a small pot that the organic nutrients wouldn't be worth it?

I've always wondered how living "living" soil is.
Soil in plastic bags of all sizes sit on a pallet going through long wet and dry cycles for months or even years before it's sold to the end user.

Click to expand...

I hear ya, sorry about adding all that...lol, I get in my weird moods sometimes.. (dam Karen's)
Interesting how it works for ya on photoperiods and not the autos. Only thing I can think of is maybe the autos don't need as much nutrients as the photos do? I've had my share of bad luck with them for awhile until I just did the 4-4-4 the entire grow, for right now anyway. I'm just hitting my stride (in flower) with my current autos... so we'll see!

edit: just read the rest of your response..out working on the yard and this at the same time..

(I was thinking of doing a run with Gaia but are you saying in a small pot that the organic nutrients wouldn't be worth it?)

Probably not, but let me answer the first question. I'd do one plant in a 15 gallon. It will grow into a tree and produce a GANG OF BUD, vs crowding two or three plants into it, the roots would suffer for space, and if your roots are suffering, then your flower output will suffer. (in organics) bottle feeding , that's a diffrent story, just look at the 1 gallon challenge thread. Wow, That's the one thing bottle feeding has over organics,

The Gaia or any other dry amendment do have some quick release nutrients (minimal) but are mostly meant for the long haul, a slow release nutrient per se. it's dependant on the soil biology to break it down to a usable nutrient for the plant. In a healthy living soil you have the fungi, microbes, protozoa going on interacting with the root system. The root system tells the soil what it needs when it needs it and by magic the living soil provides it to the roots system. Now if there's a missing link to this, it's not gonna happen. Your relying on the end user, us, to feed the plant directly. That's what bottle feeding is, feeding the plant directly. Organics is feeding the soil. The soil in turn will feed the plant for us. But this magic needs a large battery, volume, to work, at a minimum, according to build a soil, 15 gallons.

It's a lot to digest, I get it, been there, took me 3 years to even begin understanding it. and I still mess things up. Shit last year I almost gave up on it and thought about going back to bottles. I feel like I'm right there though.

Great thread, I've been going through something very similar and have been troubleshooting using the exact same steps as Newty... Week 5-6 flower gets me every time. My grows are slowly improving, but I see the exact same symptoms --


All of the reading I've done points to:

Soil PH (this is the number one recommendation by many)---Tested all of my grows runoff at around 6.5
Lockout- I've tested PPM runoff PPM's, etc... All looks good..
Underfeeding/underfeeding- Tried just about everything here, more less, etc... Still happens...
Pests- Dammit I may have them, but you have no idea how many hours I've spent searching leaves, roots etc...No pests I can see...
Fungus/ disease- Again, hard to say... I'd have to send leaves out to test..
Temperature/ Humidity--- My temps are a little low, but I don't think this is it (72-74 degrees) Humidity around 60 veg and 50 for flower...
Light distance--- Tried just about everything !
Cal/mag--- Used this and it did help, but I still think something is wrong..
Soil: tried many ! Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, Coco, and Coco Loco.... Same problem with all...

After all of this, I'm still unsure--- So, I have a few more tricks to troubleshoot with..

Allowing this soil to dry too much in between waterings (I do this)--- Someone else mentioned this in your thread....
AirFlow--- My cabinet has a 4 inch intake (passive, I may try active)... I may also add another 4 inch intake if I stay, passive.
Temperature-- I'll try to bump up to mid 70's next grow.... (lights off can go 68 for me)
Roots overcrowding--- Doesn't make sense as I've used 3 5 and 7 gallon pots (cloth or the plastic ones with holes)
Roots are slighty tan brown at harvest and very thin..... I'm not sure if its a root problem, but it could be. No mush, no smell, but not wilky white like my roots are when they are younger...
Less time in Veg--- I may try to lessen my Veg time as I like to let them stay in veg a lot longer than most..
Try a new strain--- Maybe its just the strains I'm growing

Anyway, you have no idea how helpful this thread is.... I'm taking notes ! Sorry to type so much, but this has been driving me insane ! Its like looking for your car keys in all the spots they should be and there is no place left to look !

Side note: My plants look amazing all the way through Veg and early flower, picture perfect... It's just mid flower that gives me trouble.. I get some very good buds in the end, but I'm sure they could be better... (I'm sure yours will still give you some tasty buds as well.) Kudos for not giving up !